England Jails Homophobes

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Three Muslim extremists who handed out leaflets calling for homosexuals to be hanged, stoned and burned to death have been jailed.

The group handed out the material in the street as well as posting it through letterboxes in a hate-filled campaign calling for the execution of gay people who they claimed were at the root of society's problems.

Ihjaz Ali, Kabir Ahmed and Razwan Javed are the first to be prosecuted under new laws against inciting hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation. Ali was jailed for two years and Ahmed and Javed for 15 months each.

In sentencing the men, Judge John Burgess, Recorder of Derby, told them:

'You have been convicted of intending to stir up hatred.

'It follows that your intention was to do great harm in a peaceful community.''Much has been said during the course of this trial about freedom of expression, and the freedom to preach strongly held beliefs; beliefs, which may have some foundation in scripture.

'Freedom of speech is a cornerstone of democracy and a basic ingredient of any free society. Parliament clearly had this very much in mind when this legislation was passed.'

Last month the trio were found guilty at Derby Crown Court. Residents had told of how the three fundamentalists wanted to transform their small area of Derby into a 'medieval state' under Sharia law.

Anyone who dared to question their extreme agenda was branded an 'M15 agent' or a 'sell-out,' they said.

During the trial, the court heard how the group's activities intimidated residents and left gay people frightened to walk on the streets.

The first, entitled 'Death penalty?' proclaimed that 'Allah permits the destruction' of gay people and that 'the only question is how it should be carried out'. The second, entitled 'Turn or Burn', featured a burning figure in a blazing lake of fire and warned that the decriminalization of homosexuality was 'the root of all problems'.

From:[small][small][link]http://www.crucibleofterror.org/[/link][/small][/small]
From:[small][small][link]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099397/Muslim-fanatics-called-execution-gays-wanted-set-medieval-state-Sharia-law-Derby-jailed.html[/link][/small][/small]

The irony is hilarious. Sadly, this has martyr written all over it.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

to be honest you could remove the "homosexual" part and replace it with ANY group of people and they still would have been arrested

also I fail to see any irony in this... if say a group of homosexuals had hanged, stoned or burned to death these guys then it would be ironic... but them going to jail for saying people should kill gays isn't

The irony is in the general context of people being jailed for campaigning against something they say should be criminal.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I feel that "homophob" is a bit of an understatment to call someone calling publicity to murder someone else in the most violent way due to their sexual oriantation.

Maybe "insane and potentially violent homophobes" would fit better, but for the sake of a reasonably sized title, you'll have to forgive me ;P

 

[ReservoirAngel]

I was expecting just "someone said they didn't approve of a gay person and they were hauled off by cops" and was all prepared with a "this is over-reacting" speech but this?

Yeah, I'm fully okay with these hateful pricks being in jail. You can't just call for a group of people to be violently murdered and expect to not catch shit for saying that openly and in public.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I was expecting just "someone said they didn't approve of a gay person and they were hauled off by cops" and was all prepared with a "this is over-reacting" speech but this?

Yeah, I'm fully okay with these hateful pricks being in jail. You can't just call for a group of people to be violently murdered and expect to not catch shit for saying that openly and in public.

I'm actually not sure how okay with it I am. Obviously these guys are massive assholes, but they were campaigning for gay people to be legally executed, not for them to be murdered in the streets--the latter of which is inciting violence, the former more... a dick move, lol.

I don't care that they are in jail per se, but I dunno if it oversteps the boundaries a little.

 

[BathorysGraveland]

Wishing death on someone for whatever reason is a view best kept to yourself. I support freedom of speech, and that includes negative views on homosexuals, but asking (nay, telling) them to be killed is not something that can be tolerated in a modern, civil country.

 

[Phasmal]

Yeah, I have no problem with this.
These people are actively campaigning for the deaths of people cause they don't agree with who they love. This kind of shit has no place in our society.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Wishing death on someone for whatever reason is a view best kept to yourself. I support freedom of speech, and that includes negative views on homosexuals, but asking (nay, telling) them to be killed is not something that can be tolerated in a modern, civil country.

If you really look at it, there is a, in my opinion, strong argument to not jail them over this. If they were inciting people to murder gay people, they need to be removed from society. But in this case they seem to have been campaigning for gay people to be executed under the law, and that would be as defensible as campaigning for, say, rapists to be executed.

The guys are wankers, of that I have no doubt, lol. But I'm not too keen on going down a road of "don't upset people".

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Yeah, I have no problem with this.
These people are actively campaigning for the deaths of people cause they don't agree with who they love. This kind of shit has no place in our society.

I think my post above also refers to your comment well.

I don't disagree with you fully, so to speak. But there is a fine line and this one is tricky.

 

[Phasmal]

Yeah, I have no problem with this.
These people are actively campaigning for the deaths of people cause they don't agree with who they love. This kind of shit has no place in our society.

I think my post above also refers to your comment well.

I don't disagree with you fully, so to speak. But there is a fine line and this one is tricky.

The very thing you posted says they intimidated people and left gay people afraid to walk the street.
I have no problem with these people being in jail, this was more than just `dont upset people`.

 

[BathorysGraveland]

If you really look at it, there is a, in my opinion, strong argument to not jail them over this. If they were inciting people to murder gay people, they need to be removed from society. But in this case they seem to have been campaigning for gay people to be executed under the law, and that would be as defensible as campaigning for, say, rapists to be executed.

Hmm, now you mention it, I think you may have a valid point there. Voicing ones opinion that a new law should be made, no matter how extreme, is a freedom we all should have. In the end, it's up to the authorities and people in charge to determine whether such a law passes or not, so there isn't a whole lot of harm there. Merely requesting a new law to be constructed or pondered is something I can definitely support, but there is a problem regardless: homosexuals are afraid to leave their homes. They may very well believe the campaigners would seek to incite non-legal measures against them as well, and that is something I don't support. You know what I mean?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Yeah, I have no problem with this.
These people are actively campaigning for the deaths of people cause they don't agree with who they love. This kind of shit has no place in our society.

I think my post above also refers to your comment well.

I don't disagree with you fully, so to speak. But there is a fine line and this one is tricky.

The very thing you posted says they intimidated people and left gay people afraid to walk the street.
I have no problem with these people being in jail, this was more than just `dont upset people`.

Gay people were scared by them. It doesn't say they went out of their way to intimidate or ever threaten a homosexual.

People are scared and intimidated by a lot. I know a man who is terrified (and I mean absolutely scared shitless) by any dog at all. I don't think people who walk their dog should be held responsible for him being scared. I know these two things are vastly different circumstances; I am talking only of the intimidation and fear people felt.

I feel that although these guys are huge pricks, we would all be singing a different tune--at least a more 'meh, I don't care' one--if they were campaigning for the legal execution of a more hated group, like paedohpiles and child molesters. I just wonder how okay it is for us to begin deciding who can and cannot speak their mind, on the basis that some people will dislike it, or what the moral majority feels okay with. It seems to be at least on the utter most border of a slippery slope. Careful treading required, lol.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Wishing death on someone for whatever reason is a view best kept to yourself. I support freedom of speech, and that includes negative views on homosexuals, but asking (nay, telling) them to be killed is not something that can be tolerated in a modern, civil country.

Lots of people in my country talk about the death penalty being restored for mass murderers, pedophiles, etc. Should they go to jail?

It really depends on the actual fliers. Was it a campaign to make being gay a capital offense? If so, its super dumb, but it's free speech.

If on the other hand it was worded to incite people to take murder into their own hands, well that deserves a long long prison term.

If you really look at it, there is a, in my opinion, strong argument to not jail them over this. If they were inciting people to murder gay people, they need to be removed from society. But in this case they seem to have been campaigning for gay people to be executed under the law, and that would be as defensible as campaigning for, say, rapists to be executed.

Hmm, now you mention it, I think you may have a valid point there. Voicing ones opinion that a new law should be made, no matter how extreme, is a freedom we all should have. In the end, it's up to the authorities and people in charge to determine whether such a law passes or not, so there isn't a whole lot of harm there. Merely requesting a new law to be constructed or pondered is something I can definitely support, but there is a problem regardless: homosexuals are afraid to leave their homes. They may very well believe the campaigners would seek to incite non-legal measures against them as well, and that is something I don't support. You know what I mean?

I think you, Bath, would find the above quoted post to be relevant. I mean, I'm sure people asking for child molesters to be given a death sentence would make molesters scared to leave their home, lol.

It would be so much easier if they WERE actually inciting violence on the streets, lol.

 

[BathorysGraveland]

Lots of people in my country talk about the death penalty being restored for mass murderers, pedophiles, etc. Should they go to jail?

I understand that, and no they shouldn't be punished for voicing such views. However, if they were to say that everyone should grab a bat and beat the paedophile who lives down the street to death, then yes, I believe they should definitely be punished.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Considering they were pretty much distributing death threats, I think they deserve to go to jail. No matter what group they were threatening, it would still be inexcusable.

You right to freedom ends when it hurts someone else.

 

[Phasmal]

Gay people were scared by them. It doesn't say they went out of their way to intimidate or ever threaten a homosexual.

People are scared and intimidated by a lot. I know a man who is terrified (and I mean absolutely scared shitless) by any dog at all. I don't think people who walk their dog should be held responsible for him being scared. I know these two things are vastly different circumstances; I am talking only of the intimidation and fear people felt.

I feel that although these guys are huge pricks, we would all be singing a different tune--at least a more 'meh, I don't care' one--if they were campaigning for the legal execution of a more hated group, like paedohpiles and child molesters. I just wonder how okay it is for us to begin deciding who can and cannot speak their mind, on the basis that some people will dislike it, or what the moral majority feels okay with. It seems to be at least on the utter most border of a slippery slope. Careful treading required, lol.

Paedophiles and child molesters have generally commited a crime. Gay people have commited no crime. I would be behind them being in prison if they were putting around leaflets calling for the `legal` death of any race/religion. Sexual orientation is protected under the same basis.

Also, I would imagine dogs aren't distributing leaflets about how they want this guy to be tortured.

They were not campaigning to change the law at all, or they would have actually tried to change the law.

This is hate speech pure and simple. I am completely unconflicted about this.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Lots of people in my country talk about the death penalty being restored for mass murderers, pedophiles, etc. Should they go to jail?

I understand that, and no they shouldn't be punished for voicing such views. However, if they were to say that everyone should grab a bat and beat the paedophile who lives down the street to death, then yes, I believe they should definitely be punished.

I think we are in agreement.

If they were requesting a law be made, they are idiots, but not criminals and they should have gone about it better. They don't HAVE to go about it better, but they really should have.

If they were requesting street level violence on gay people, they are idiots and criminals. And assholes.