England Jails Homophobes

[BathorysGraveland]

I think you, Bath, would find the above quoted post to be relevant.

I read it and agree completely. It makes perfect sense now that you've explained it. Someone could say they are a massive fan of gore horror films and state that he think they should be even more extreme. Someone could then be afraid of him afterwards, thinking he is sick for liking them so much and that he could murder someone soon in mimicry of the films. He would certainly not deserve to be punished for stating his views on a genre of film.

So yeah, perfect sense.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I would be behind them being in prison if they were putting around leaflets calling for the `legal` death of any race/religion.

You are trying to make an argument against free speech there. There is nothing wrong with wanting a law to be made, even if it asks for the death penalty. Just because YOU dislike the death penalty (as do I), doesn't mean it's not okay for others to want it.

You are walking down the path of making your own moral law. That's bad. That's what countries that KILL gay people have.

 

[Phasmal]

I would be behind them being in prison if they were putting around leaflets calling for the `legal` death of any race/religion.

You are trying to make an argument against free speech there. There is nothing wrong with wanting a law to be made, even if it asks for the death penalty. Just because YOU dislike the death penalty (as do I), doesn't mean it's not okay for others to want it.

You are walking down the path of making your own moral law. That's bad. That's what countries that KILL gay people have.

Nooooo. I am simply saying that hate speech (which this was) is not protected and you can be prosecuted for it.
That is what the law is.
It's not my moral law, its the law law.

Inciting hatred against a group (such as gays) is against the law. If a bunch of guys were doing this (and if you read it clearly they certainly were), they shouldn't act suprised when they go to jail.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I would be behind them being in prison if they were putting around leaflets calling for the `legal` death of any race/religion.

You are trying to make an argument against free speech there. There is nothing wrong with wanting a law to be made, even if it asks for the death penalty. Just because YOU dislike the death penalty (as do I), doesn't mean it's not okay for others to want it.

You are walking down the path of making your own moral law. That's bad. That's what countries that KILL gay people have.

Nooooo. I am simply saying that hate speech (which this was) is not protected and you can be prosecuted for it.
That is what the law is.
It's not my moral law, its the law law.

Inciting hatred against a group (such as gays) is against the law. If a bunch of guys were doing this (and if you read it clearly they certainly were), they shouldn't act suprised when they go to jail.

Inciting hatred against a sexual orientation is only illegal in the UK and only has been for about a month. Inciting VIOLENCE is illegal in more places.

At the end of the day, these guys didn't actually incite violence and they weren't convicted if that; they were convicted of spreading hate. I think that's pretty fucked up. I have no doubt in my mind at all that someone leaving leaflets about how horrible rapists are wouldn't be punished, because it's 'okay' to hate them. I have no doubt at all that spreading hatred against neo-nazis and the KKK would be unpunished. It's 'okay' to hate them, it seems. The idiots here are being jailed because they spoke out against a group that it's 'not okay' to hate on. Outlawing hate is just not on. There are plenty of groups to hate and that's plenty okay. I think hating homosexuals is absolutely one of the dumbest things you could do, but my opinion isn't fact and I'm sure a KKK member would think hating them is idiotic.

It's a double standard in my eyes and a miscaridge of justice.

 

[Phasmal]

Sniiiiiiiiip.

Well, like I said before, rapists have commited a crime.
Homosexuals have not commited a crime.

Either way is a sort of fucked up vigilantism (which I think is also not legal).
I'm not saying you can't feel conflicted, but I don't.
It is quite clear they were calling for specific violence (and also, I cant find where it says they were calling for it legally, they just said they reckon their guy is cool with it) against a group who have done nothing wrong.

These guys knew exactly what they were doing, and I don't feel sorry for them at all. You can if you want but its probably a waste of time.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I would be behind them being in prison if they were putting around leaflets calling for the `legal` death of any race/religion.

You are trying to make an argument against free speech there. There is nothing wrong with wanting a law to be made, even if it asks for the death penalty. Just because YOU dislike the death penalty (as do I), doesn't mean it's not okay for others to want it.

You are walking down the path of making your own moral law. That's bad. That's what countries that KILL gay people have.

Ya this case does not really have all that much to do with free speech. If you read any of the articles on it they were clearly inciting hatred and using intimidation tactics on people. They were not just campaigning for a law to be made.

People were intimidated by them. They didn't intimidate people.

It's the same difference between making it illegal to walk your dog because someone people are terrified of dogs, and someone throwing a dog on someone who is scared of them.

You don't have the right to not be offended and you don't have the right to make laws to keep things that scare you away from you in public.

This law is very new and only exists in the UK. I don't see it lasting long.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Sniiiiiiiiip.

Well, like I said before, rapists have commited a crime.
Homosexuals have not commited a crime.

Either way is a sort of fucked up vigilantism (which I think is also not legal).
I'm not saying you can't feel conflicted, but I don't.
It is quite clear they were calling for specific violence (and also, I cant find where it says they were calling for it legally, they just said they reckon their guy is cool with it) against a group who have done nothing wrong.

These guys knew exactly what they were doing, and I don't feel sorry for them at all. You can if you want but its probably a waste of time.

I guess we will leave it there. In my eyes, they did nothing wrong. In yours and that judges, they did.

Such is the way of us human beings. Curse our differences

 

[Phasmal]

I would be behind them being in prison if they were putting around leaflets calling for the `legal` death of any race/religion.

You are trying to make an argument against free speech there. There is nothing wrong with wanting a law to be made, even if it asks for the death penalty. Just because YOU dislike the death penalty (as do I), doesn't mean it's not okay for others to want it.

You are walking down the path of making your own moral law. That's bad. That's what countries that KILL gay people have.

Free Speech does not protect you from consequences. Time people start to learn that. There are laws against "hate speech" or "incitement to crime" in about every country which values human rights.

So much this.

These guys were not meekly trying to change a law, they were intimidating and calling for the hanging, stoning and burning of people on the basis they didnt agree with their sex life.
That. Is. Not. Okay.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I would be behind them being in prison if they were putting around leaflets calling for the `legal` death of any race/religion.

You are trying to make an argument against free speech there. There is nothing wrong with wanting a law to be made, even if it asks for the death penalty. Just because YOU dislike the death penalty (as do I), doesn't mean it's not okay for others to want it.

You are walking down the path of making your own moral law. That's bad. That's what countries that KILL gay people have.

Free Speech does not protect you from consequences. Time people start to learn that. There are laws against "hate speech" or "incitement to crime" in about every country which values human rights.

If you read the post, they didn't incite crime. They were campaigning for a law to be made for homosexuals to be legally given a death sentence. That's the exact same as campaigning for murderers to be given longer times in prison. It's not a hate crime legally, they were convicted for "inciting hatred". That's the fucked part.

If you support their conviction, you cannot ever again wish paedophiles be imprisoned or vocally oppose their kind; that's hate, being a paedophile isn't illegal, it's a sexual orientation (a fucked up one >_>) and they haven't harmed anyone. Saying hateful things against them is the exact same as saying hateful things against homosexuals. Just that one deserves it and the other doesn't >_>

I think these guys are huge douche bags and I could't care less about them, really. I just feel it is a very dangerous and, quite frankly, pretty fucked uop road to go down if we wanna start locking people up for vocally hating people they think deserve it. You wanna head down a path that could arguably lead to it being a hate crime to hand out leaflets railing a politician or rapist?

Basically: these guys suck, sucked in to them. Maybe not a great idea to imprison them.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

You don't have the right to not be offended and you don't have the right to make laws to keep things that scare you away from you in public.

This law is very new and only exists in the UK. I don't see it lasting long.

Actually its not really a new law its an old law that has been amended. Previously it was only illegal to incite violence against people based on race or religion. They changed it so it now also covers sexual orientation.

Also this has nothing to do with people being offended. Your trying to make this case about something that it isnt because you either didnt read the dam article, were to stupid to understand it, or you just want to have an argument.

There is no grey area in this case if you actually bother to read about what they were doing.

Woah, woah, woah. Is there any need to start calling people "too damn stupid"? We are all having very civil discussions here.

Also, you called me stupid and misspelled "too". That's kind of funny, lol.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Woah, woah, woah. Is there any need to start calling people "too damn stupid"? We are all having very civil discussions here.

Also, you called me stupid and misspelled "too". That's kind of funny, lol.

I can take it that your failure to actually address any of my points is because you know I am right then?

Why would I try to converse with someone who walks into a civil discussion and calls me stupid? If you want to talk to someone, don't call them stupid and lazy in the middle of the conversation >_>

But really, do yourself a favour and leave it there. Name calling and "being a jerk" are both no-no's in the rules. Probably not worth getting in the shit because you don't agree with me.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Also: Just beind a pedophile is NOT illegal. Commiting pedophile acts is. Another thing where you are simply wrong.

being a paedophile isn't illegal

Calm down, stop insulting me, read my posts before calling me ill-informed, lol.

We were all having such an easy going talk until a few people came in, guns blazing and ruined it -_-

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Now now, they're just trying to emulate Iran. After all, there are no homosexuals in Iran.

Imagine being born a gay man or woman over there... What a terrible life