England Jails Homophobes

[GraveeKing]

Geez! It's taken us long enough to actually realize there IS a limit to freedom of speech.
And that there -is- a difference between saying something and invoking hatred.

I'd have supported these nitwits going to jail no matter what who they were trying to cause hatred on. Even better to see that it's in England. I can't stand 'freedom of speech' turning into freedom of fucking with every single belief and minority possible.
I ain't going to mention any certain groups that get away with it, but I'm sure most of you can think of plenty of examples with ease.
Down with haters!

 

[PinochetIsMyBro]

It being common doesn't make it any more tolerable. Especially considering the majority of the forum posters are Americans, and the majority of those do actually seem to think they're the freest most socially advanced country on the planet.

And before you drop your jaw like a lifeless weight, point you accusatory appendage in my direction and scream 'HYPOCRITE' at the top of your lungs.

I'm not saying my country is the most free either. The UK has it's share of problems. Unquestionably so. I'm just so sick of seeing people blindly touting their milkshakes as the bestest flavours of all the yards when they've never so much as a glanced at what the other yards have to offer.

Let alone the the ones they're serving with icecream down the road.

Oh god so many quotes, how am I supposed to reply to everyone? ;_;

Anyways... I don't actually think America is the best nation, just the one with the most individual freedom in conjunction with a functioning society (last bit added to pre-empt morons who will try to say SOMALIA LOL).

I don't actually view most western european nations as inferior soon-to-be cesspools (except for the UK, France and Sweden), but I certainly do love mocking their idiotic self-destroying policies.

Feel free to do the same to my current nation, spread the love!

 

[PinochetIsMyBro]

Geez! It's taken us long enough to actually realize there IS a limit to freedom of speech.
And that there -is- a difference between saying something and invoking hatred.

I'd have supported these nitwits going to jail no matter what who they were trying to cause hatred on. Even better to see that it's in England. I can't stand 'freedom of speech' turning into freedom of fucking with every single belief and minority possible.
I ain't going to mention any certain groups that get away with it, but I'm sure most of you can think of plenty of examples with ease.
Down with haters!

You're so right! Naturally you'd support putting the man who put a Bible into a jar of piss and called it 'art' in jail, yes?

Wait, what's that? You don't consider him a "hater"?

And here we come to the crux of the problem that most of you people will never understand, because you're so high on your "I am right and just and so are my views on everything" pedestal that falling off would fracture your spine. "Hate speech" laws are bad because they are thought crime laws, and the government in power gets to determine what is or isn't a thought crime. You enjoy these laws when they put people away who have views you think are 'nasty' but when the tables are turned and suddenly the government thinks your views are the nasty ones, how are you going to feel about that?

 

[orangeban]

It being common doesn't make it any more tolerable. Especially considering the majority of the forum posters are Americans, and the majority of those do actually seem to think they're the freest most socially advanced country on the planet.

And before you drop your jaw like a lifeless weight, point you accusatory appendage in my direction and scream 'HYPOCRITE' at the top of your lungs.

I'm not saying my country is the most free either. The UK has it's share of problems. Unquestionably so. I'm just so sick of seeing people blindly touting their milkshakes as the bestest flavours of all the yards when they've never so much as a glanced at what the other yards have to offer.

Let alone the the ones they're serving with icecream down the road.

Oh god so many quotes, how am I supposed to reply to everyone? ;_;

Anyways... I don't actually think America is the best nation, just the one with the most individual freedom in conjunction with a functioning society (last bit added to pre-empt morons who will try to say SOMALIA LOL).

I don't actually view most western european nations as inferior soon-to-be cesspools (except for the UK, France and Sweden), but I certainly do love mocking their idiotic self-destroying policies.

Feel free to do the same to my current nation, spread the love!

Hey now, you don't get to attack the French, that's Britain's domain.

 

[PinochetIsMyBro]

Well I'd certainly rather live in France, Sweden and even the UK than America.

I'm sorry, but you guys are basically a theocracy that doesn't actually understand the concept of freedom of speech.

You'd have to be insane to believe this tripe right here.

Tell that to Gay people, people who've been raped and don't want the child and recreational drug users... sorry. Users of recreational drugs that the government can't tax. That's more accurate.

Also herp derp 'patriot act'. Government arrest you while your sleeping.

We own the internet herp derp. Take down servers in Hong Kong etc etc.

You can't be serious. You clearly have no idea what a theocracy is, and if you think 'hate speech' is even a remotely valid concept then you don't understand freedom of speech either.

As far as a freedom contest goes, I'd much rather be able to speak my mind without getting arrested then be able to smoke meth or pot legally. I'm sorry your priorities are so skewed.

 

[Melon Hunter]

Two mistakes. Firstly, as I pointed out in my original post, you are looking at this through the prism of the US Constitution, and the First Amendment. So there's half your answer; unlike America, Britain recognises the damage unlimited free speech can cause and has laws in place to deal with that. This is nothing short of culture shock.

Actually, about every western state recognises that to ensure peaceful coexistance of communities comes only with some limitation on free speech (also because free speech can interfere with basic human rights of others). The only limitation they don't have is "hate speech".

Really? I've always been under the impression that America places more importance on the rights and liberty of the individual due to the First Amendment, hence groups like the WBC are able to bet away with saying things far more inflammatory than if they were based in Britain. Judging from the horrified responses of some American members of these fora to 'hate speech' convictions, there's certainly less of a check on free speech abuses in America.

 

[PinochetIsMyBro]

How about "killing people is objectively wrong". Of course, I doubt you would agree with that seeing as you worship a genocidal dictator...

Cool, someone who's never read a history book. I certainly haven't seen that on the Escapist before!

 

[PinochetIsMyBro]

There really is no point even acknowledging people like you. So whatever, keep thinking whatever the fuck it is that you're thinking. You're certainly not going to be swayed by any o dem der' fancy book lernins Logic.

I feel the same. It's like talking to someone who believes the world is flat because the catholic church told them so, when I'm standing in front of them with a globe and a live feed from multiple satellites.

 

[ElPatron]

Oh, big fucking deal. So he said "the death sentence" instead of "death". Yeah, all of a sudden it's civilized rational discourse. So when someone walks up to me and says "You deserve to die, and here are several acceptable ways in which to kill you, all of which have been outlawed in every civilized country in the world," I should respond "Why, a jaunty good day to you sir, thanks so much for sharing your opinion."

Moron.

Look, nobody hates people leaving their culture behind and then telling others how their culture is wrong as much as me.

But you just admitted that you won't respect someone's opinion.

To their eyes, they are trying to make "democracy". Trying to get the public to agree with them. They live in a democratic country and got jail time for trying to take an active participation on the country's politics.

To their eyes, the situation is as fucked up as it is to gay people.

As Melon Hunter said, in Britain, we have different ideas about freedom of speech than you do in America. Does that make us wrong? It's not like America has total freedom of speech either, slander, libel and death threats are still illegal.
Thanks to British hate speech laws, we have never had a powerful far-right fascist political party and we have far fewer people like the KKK or Westboro Baptist Church here, and that makes me happy.

What exactly are the BNP, Orange Order, Islam4UK, Muslims Against Crusades, and the English Defence League?

All vile hate filled idiots who have to censor what they say in public and wouldn't have a chance at national victory if they systematically kneecapped all the opposition.

So what? the KKK is not going to rule the US anyway. Your point is moot.

The fact is that loony people exist in the US, and in the UK. Laws don't make it any better.

 

[ElPatron]

As Melon Hunter said, in Britain, we have different ideas about freedom of speech than you do in America. Does that make us wrong? It's not like America has total freedom of speech either, slander, libel and death threats are still illegal.
Thanks to British hate speech laws, we have never had a powerful far-right fascist political party and we have far fewer people like the KKK or Westboro Baptist Church here, and that makes me happy.

I'm sorry, but:

-- KKK has committed far more crimes than hate speech. It's not the freedom of speech that protects them.

-- You basically said "I want freedom of speech to be restricted except to myself and people I agree with".

There are certain things which are objectively wrong. Inciting hatred and violence against people who have done nothing wrong is one of those things.

And? You're dodging the point.

It doesn't matter what is right or wrong here. You simply dragged some dirt from the US, which isn't powerful either.

 

[ElPatron]

And yes, we've got just as many loons as you do (proportionally) but atleast we don't have to listen to their lunacy.

They're certainly not allowed to jabber away in the streets. Atleast not anymore.

First of all, I am European. And I think that my constitution tells me that I have freedom of speech. I don't like seeing it restricted.

I rather let my opposition talk than drown them. Silent opposition makes me uncomfortable.

Because I know, that some day *I* might be the opposition.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Relevant to the topic. Muslim teen arrested for anti-war facebook post
[link]http://english.irib.ir/radioislam/news/islam-in-europe/item/82176-uk-muslim-teenager-arrested-for-anti-war-facebook-post[/link]

lol how is that freedom of speech treating you?

 

[DaJoW]

I would be behind them being in prison if they were putting around leaflets calling for the `legal` death of any race/religion.

You are trying to make an argument against free speech there. There is nothing wrong with wanting a law to be made, even if it asks for the death penalty. Just because YOU dislike the death penalty (as do I), doesn't mean it's not okay for others to want it.

You are walking down the path of making your own moral law. That's bad. That's what countries that KILL gay people have.

Nooooo. I am simply saying that hate speech (which this was) is not protected and you can be prosecuted for it.
That is what the law is.
It's not my moral law, its the law law.

Inciting hatred against a group (such as gays) is against the law. If a bunch of guys were doing this (and if you read it clearly they certainly were), they shouldn't act suprised when they go to jail.

Inciting hatred against a sexual orientation is only illegal in the UK and only has been for about a month. Inciting VIOLENCE is illegal in more places.

It's illegal in Sweden as well. A pastor was jailed for calling homosexuals a plague and such while preaching.

That was overturned on grounds of religious freedom, as what he said was based on the Bible. It even went all the way to the Supreme Court. He didn't advocate violence though, "just" called homosexuality a cancer and that no homosexual could be a Christian.

Funnily enough, WBC hailed him, which in turn caused him to denounce them and called their statements "appalling".