Enough with the red screen.

[joshuaayt]

I think Deus Ex had the very best health system possible. I propose that we make it a standard, altering only the precision and the number of body segments

Oh, and fixing that disembodied head glitch it had going on.

 

[Squilookle]

Well, the health meter is actually more accurate than that (divided into nine or eighteen blocks, depending on how you want to look at it), but it happens to regenerate to a third. Or two thirds if you were at half health.

Oh ok, I see what you mean. That's a lot better than what I was thinking it was.

When teammates are checking in on your health, though, do you really need to say anything other than "near death"? Saying that you have exactly 23 hit points doesn't really help. It's still going to be about the same number of bullets that kill you.

Yes, yes I do. Most of the time it's after a head on fight with someone who I've killed while narrowly avoiding death, and they usually ask me out of curiosity how close they had been to winning the fight- i.e. how close I was to dying.

Another case is when your teammates see you run down a path, only to dissapear in the smoke of falling artillery, bursting grenades, mounted MG fire and bullets and bombs from planes zooming overhead. When the smoke clears and you're still off in the distance alive, knowing just how low your heath is is something they usually ask first. In the game I play online the most, all I have is a health bar divided into sub-bars, and I can only estimate based on that. Health percentage tells you exactly what it is, at a glance, and can also tell you exactly how much damage each hit does to you.

 

[badgersprite]

Well, the red screen is kind of supposed to be irritating. If you can't aim properly, then that forces you to take cover and regenerate health. Admittedly, having typed that out, it does feel a little patronising that game designers are basically telling you how to play their games and how to strategise like you haven't played a cover-based shooting game before.

I don't get annoyed by the red screen personally. Most times that it's used, and if it's used well, then I find it lures me in and makes me feel more tense in a firefight. It feels like the character has actually taken damage, if you know what I mean, as opposed to a declining health bar that doesn't affect your ability to fight until it empties completely and you die.

That said, though, I can see how it can get annoying when it's ubiquitous. I mean, so many games do use this system. It's like, "Wow. I'm playing completely the same game as the one I just finished."

I think the only time it really annoyed me was when it showed up in Mass Effect 2. It's like, "Huh? Red screen of death? What are you doing here? This isn't your game!"

 

[FlyAwayAutumn]

And another thing to really see the blood it would have to be in your eyes... ow.

I prefer health bars more specifically Halo Reach or Borderlands where you have a regenerating shield but you have health that need health packs.

 

[Something Amyss]

It seems that we agree, I try to argue the same point but the only thing anyone ever says is, "Health bars aren't realistic.."

The other major argument is that the move away from complex HUDs simplifies things greatly. This is, of course, true. However, you're turning the whole screen into a hud and just making the indicator more intrusive when it shows up, so I still think it's a wash. Just pointing out there's a better argument, even if it's one I don't particularly agree with.

I like simple HUDs, but some info should be well displayed. Health is vital (no pun intended) and shouldn't hinder your gameplay experience.

Note I'm not arguing with you; I just tacked on stream of consciousness discussion to a reply dealing with what you said.

 

[Squilookle]

I like simple HUDs, but some info should be well displayed. Health is vital (no pun intended) and shouldn't hinder your gameplay experience.

I find it strange that in some games I catch myself switching weapons just to bring up the ammo display. There's just something inherently... backwards about that system.

Mind you I thing Regen heath is the ideal way to handle a sandbox game. You never know where an outbreak of mayhem will take you, and having to rely on non-respawning health pickups is a bit less than ideal. So yeah, regen FTW in sandbox games.

 

[Miles Tormani]

Well, the health meter is actually more accurate than that (divided into nine or eighteen blocks, depending on how you want to look at it), but it happens to regenerate to a third. Or two thirds if you were at half health.

Oh ok, I see what you mean. That's a lot better than what I was thinking it was.

When teammates are checking in on your health, though, do you really need to say anything other than "near death"? Saying that you have exactly 23 hit points doesn't really help. It's still going to be about the same number of bullets that kill you.

Yes, yes I do. Most of the time it's after a head on fight with someone who I've killed while narrowly avoiding death, and they usually ask me out of curiosity how close they had been to winning the fight- i.e. how close I was to dying.

Another case is when your teammates see you run down a path, only to dissapear in the smoke of falling artillery, bursting grenades, mounted MG fire and bullets and bombs from planes zooming overhead. When the smoke clears and you're still off in the distance alive, knowing just how low your heath is is something they usually ask first. In the game I play online the most, all I have is a health bar divided into sub-bars, and I can only estimate based on that. Health percentage tells you exactly what it is, at a glance, and can also tell you exactly how much damage each hit does to you.

See, once again, unless I'm at more or less 1 hit point, something that can be easily guessed by my health bar being empty, claiming that I'm "near death" is good enough. To go by the Halo example, it doesn't matter if I have one health block or one and a half. One good DMR shot is still going to kill me. How "hard" it killed me is rather unnecessary at that point.

On the other hand, ODST's health bar was so damn vague and variable that it was nearly impossible to do anything but estimate.

 

[Squilookle]

I think we're looking at it from different sides of the glass- you're looking at it from the point of view of how much damage the player is still able to take before dying, whereas I'm looking at it from the point of view of how much damage a recent fight/event has brought the player down to without killing them.

Sort of like you're focused on how that player will fare in the upcoming future firefight, while I'm thinking of how well they fared in that noteworthy recent moment in the past.

 

[Miles Tormani]

I think we're looking at it from different sides of the glass- you're looking at it from the point of view of how much damage the player is still able to take before dying, whereas I'm looking at it from the point of view of how much damage a recent fight/event has brought the player down to without killing them.

Sort of like you're focused on how that player will fare in the upcoming future firefight, while I'm thinking of how well they fared in that noteworthy recent moment in the past.

Once again, I don't see how it matters. If I manage to make it through a fight, and end it with full health, it means I did well. If my health bar is short, it means I barely scraped through. Whether it's specifically at 4 or 5 percent means very little either way.

 

[Squilookle]

OK, so bottom line: the exact health value doesn't matter to you, and for me and my group it does. Seems simple enough.

 

[MR.Spartacus]

"Health bars aren't realistic.."

To which I'd say "How is getting covered with raspberry jam/spontaneously developing cataracts realistic?" or more often just point that "realism" isn't necessary when it impedes gameplay. That's my biggest gripe with Call of Duty. If you get severely damaged and need to make a quick getaway you can't because your as good as blind.

 

[Miles Tormani]

OK, so bottom line: the exact health value doesn't matter to you, and for me and my group it does. Seems simple enough.

...Alright, suppose we'll just leave it at that then.

 

[silversnake4133]

I guess that's one aspect as to why "realism" should be a game developer's deadly sin. I don't really get why people want "realistic" games. Reality is boring, depressing and full of angry pricks who would rather steal your wallet than say hello to you. Video games are supposed to be an escape from it, how can you escape reality when the title you're playing boasts "realism" as it's main selling point? Hell, I don't even think "realistic" graphics are all that amazing. But then again, I'm more of a story slut than a graphics whore. :]

Oh, and I'm guessing you've encountered this but, when you're getting wasted by an enemy that's right next to you, the splatter was supposed to point to a direction where the enemy is that is shooting at you. But this kind of gets confusing since with every shot, more red is splattered on the screen. And it's not even a toned down red...it's BRIGHT red of the annoying variety.

 

[MrGalactus]

I miss health meters, those guys had style.

BRiNK has health bars. I'm gonna wait for that

 

[x EvilErmine x]

'Sir we've been jammed'
'what?'
'We've been jammed sir....i think it's raspberry'
'Raspberry? Hmm.....only one man would dare to give ME the raspberry!'

Cookie for the refrence.

LONE STARR! (camera smashes into helmet)

Well done,

Spoiler

Youre prize sir...enjoy )

 

[Aphex Demon]

I dont really mind the health regen thing.
Although if the new Deus Ex has that Red screen health regen I may cry. :'(

 

[hawkeye52]

bring back health bars and remove red screens and regenerating health

 

[Something Amyss]

I like simple HUDs, but some info should be well displayed. Health is vital (no pun intended) and shouldn't hinder your gameplay experience.

I find it strange that in some games I catch myself switching weapons just to bring up the ammo display. There's just something inherently... backwards about that system.

Mind you I thing Regen heath is the ideal way to handle a sandbox game. You never know where an outbreak of mayhem will take you, and having to rely on non-respawning health pickups is a bit less than ideal. So yeah, regen FTW in sandbox games.

Agreed. I really do like health regen over having to item hoard in sandbox games. They just do need a better display system for it sometimes. And also things like ammo. Especially when actually in combat, there's little excuse to not show it. In fact, when armed there's little excuse not to show it. Like I said, I like less clutter, but some things should be displayed. A health meter and ammo count do not automatically make for a cluttered HUD and if you know what you're doing, it shouldn't ever make for one.

Other items that are less central to the gameplay can be hidden at will. But if you have to switch weapons to see the ammo count, or constantly call up the weapon select, there's something wrong.

 

[Chamale]

I'd like a system without health regen. Injuries either kill you dead, leave you to bleed out in a few minutes, or impair you somewhat.
Rainbow Six was like that on the N64. It was possible for the character to be killed in a single shot from an enemy. The same was true in the first Battlefield: Bad Company's singleplayer mode. It was fun, because you had to use more planning and tactics than in most FPS games.

Bad Company 1 required more tactics in single player due to the health system? Interesting claim, considering I spent most of the second half running past enemies and repeatedly using the Life-2 instead of actually shooting people.

I played on Hard, and Life-2 doesn't help when you can be killed by a sniper in one shot. IIRC, the easier difficulties are much like you described, which is why I didn't enjoy them much.

Battlefield 1942's singleplayer campaign is another example where the player has as much health as the hordes of enemies. Anyone who achieved a no-deaths run through that campaign had something to be truly proud of.