Entitled Americans and media over-representation.

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Auron

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@OP This is actually a good read man, the xenophobia was a bit too much imo though and it called attention to all the wrong parts.

So, remember when I contrasted Google image searches of the words romance novel covers with the covers of the books actually being sold to people? Now go download Steam, and take a look at it's four thousand three hundred and ninety eight single player gamer and expansions. Too lazy? Here is the list of games supported by steam with in game achievements.

http://steamcommunity.com/stats/

Don't worry, you will still see boobs, but the only way one could look at such a list and conclude that gaming exclusively caters to adolescent male power and sex fantasies is if they focus only upon the games that target the teenage male demographic by catering to their power and sex fantasies while ignoring others. You know, like the ones that target that demographic with poop jokes.

Which is a bit like getting ticked off that TV focuses upon Americans, assuming you only consider American TV that is created for American consumption, while ignoring everything that doesn't support your argument. Like the rest of the world.

In short, don't like games made by guys for younger guys? You realize general audience is the largest market, and has the most games, right?

Right? We are all going to stop showing how progressive we are by pretending Duke Nukem is the only game in existence? There are flipping legions of happy gamers that rarely if ever pick up AAA action dudebro to the max games. Heck, there is even this one type of seriously creepy gamer, that plays this 'sports ball." thing almost exclusively. They all run around doing confusing things, and then get really excited for no reason. Then for some reason, a very flaming individual sings about how he is going to rock you, and how they are champions. I am pretty sure it is a cult, but I think both men and women join this 'sports ball" cult.

I mean seriously, I am building space ships over hear, and I need to fully test it before I save this game and load up the one where I build rocket ships to fly to the moon. I won't have time to if you people don't stop getting your sexism debate all over my video games.

Oh, wait. Content you object to doesn't jump from games you don't like onto beloved games you have already purchased? Holy crap folks, I thought it said does. I missed the n't. Sorry for the wall of text. Total false alarm, I am a total bag of fish.
This is actually good stuff lol and I actually agree, most of my library in Steam lacks Gear of War-esque protagonists or boobs everywhere, in fact I don't think I own a single game that exploits sex, maybe Hitman absolution but it was just the trailer pretty much and it's far from the game's main focus.

Terminate421 said:
I will admit we have shit on TV but thats why you just change the channel like we've been doing since the 1960's
Oh don't worry, it's shit everywhere, Down here in South America it's just as bad, maybe more diversified but just as bad.


Oh, you don't like America? Get in line, most of the world hates us, and we give zero fucks. We can't hear your butt hurt over the sound of our buying power and economic influence.
lol, that's not the way to go buddy, don't know if you're just trolling the bait in the OP but still not the way to go. Also like guy from the 80's stated, the economy is dwindling slowly but steady, which actually worries me because the Chinese are much worse but anyway not the time or place.
 

TheRightToArmBears

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Ok.

I read most of it, but to be honest, meh. For starters, you've got too many points, so it's too long and comes across as very unfocused. Your tone is pretty poor- and if it's satire, it's poor satire. Given that I'm not actually certain what parts are and aren't satire, here's what's wrong, if it's completely straight: Arrogant, generalizations, nothing that hasn't be said on these forums half a billion times already.

When it comes down to it, America isn't that much worse than everywhere else.
 

Fappy

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Chemical Alia said:
I may have just posted in a thread admitting that I occasionally eat at McDonald's, but truth be told, I'm not really a hamburger person overall. The rest of your thread confused me and reminded me of when my grandmother gets upset about something.
When my grandfather gets upset about something he starts warning me about conspiracies and the end of the world :/

OT: I think the main thing to get out of this thread is that MarsAtlas managed to craft a post that must be only a few words short of hitting the single post character limit. Christ almighty.
 

itsmeyouidiot

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Fishes said:
Hero in a half shell said:
I agree... to an extent.

There are dozens of game types out there that don't even have male or female characters. There are many, many Arcade/Simulation/RTS etc. that don't even appear on the gender issues radar because they don't have genders in their games.

However if you look at the big hitters, the AAA games, the ones that get the multi million dollar advertising campaigns and sell the most copies, break records, etc. There are some gender issues that need to be addressed.

Virtually all the protagonists of these games are male. It's a big issue. If you tried to name as many dedicated male human videogame protagonists as you could you'd be in the triple figures before you start really struggling. Do it with females and it's difficult to go much further than 10.

Look at Naughty Dog's fight to keep a female character on the box art. Look at their discovery that marketers don't include girls when doing market research into videogames, Heck, Bioshock Infinite failed to keep Elizabeth on the box art, instead we got scruffy middle aged dark haired white guy #4536 holding a shotgun. *ORIGINALITY HO!*

Successful female videogame protagonists are very much the exception in the AAA industry, and the industry have no intentions of trying to change that. That is an issue, and it won't go away until we ask why it's there and try to correct it.
So, the problem is that media that emphasizes production values over things like originality and innovation employes stereotypically shallow marketing ploys and targets the demographic that prioritizes production values over originality and innovation?

Shallow media targets shallow people. Lucky for us, there is other media, no? Or to provide an actual example:

The movie Battleship cost five times as much to make as Lincoln, and two and a half times as much as Django. Why should this tick me off? As someone who laughed hysterically for ten minutes when I found out there were making a movie out of Battleship but did not see it, why do I need to actively campaign to change this trend?

Seems like supporting the heck out of media you adore gets the job done. That is while I was awaiting the expected reaction posts I got to play Stardrive. I supported the crap out of the 4x industry in all of it's incarnations even when it was presumed dead. I never gave up on it, because X-com got me into gaming when I dismissed it because my Dad played Doom. When I got the news about the first person shooter, I... Well can you guess what action I took?

Now I am going to go play Kerbal Space Program. I don't want to stop designing space ships, but I have had enough war today. What game are you going to go play? If it is Bioshock, you may wish to think about which one of us is actually supporting the game industry they hope to see next year.
What I think you don't understand is that it's possible to adore AAA titles like Bioshock while still disagreeing with the direction of the marketing and overall tone.

The main reason people dislike sexist tones in AAA games is because they greatly enjoy those games and don't want them to succumb to such unfortunate portrayals. True, games like Kerbal Space Program traditionally don't have this problem, but that's because they're an entirely different type of game than places zero focus on actual characters and story.

Games that do have identifiable characters will almost always be shallow in some way, whether it be sexism, glorified violence, or just plain bad storytelling; the games that are more responsible in tone are rare exception. It's not so much shallow media in gaming that we have a problem with, it's the near-complete lack of anything that isn't.
 

BeeGeenie

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Holy verbal diarrhea, Batman!

Seriously, I got about halfway through that incomprehensible thing and still couldn't tell what the point was, so I said "Ain't nobody got time to read dat" and got on with my life.

In future, pick one subject and try to stay focused, or at least start a different offensive thread for each paragraph of your bloated rant.
 

Atmos Duality

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Aaaand. Yup!
Right there at the front of his Badge display is the Hot Topic Badge.
Now we've confirmed his real ambition.

Fishes said:
Why can't you grow up and be more like the rest of the world?
And right there, first line, condescending pretentious bullshit Nirvana.
If this was supposed to be funny or ironic, I'm not terribly interested nor does it matter; your purpose here is painfully obvious, and it's off topic.

Mods, please close the thread.
OK, seriously. Why the hell is this topic in Gaming Discussion? And why isn't it closed yet?
It isn't discussing games so much as it's preaching bullshit to the American users here on the forums.
The deliberate antagonism here is transparent.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Tara Callie said:
Dirty Hipsters said:
Oh, you don't like America? Get in line, most of the world hates us, and we give zero fucks. We can't hear your butt hurt over the sound of our buying power and economic influence.
Hey, how's that housing crisis and economic recession you guys are responsible for?
Sounds like you're butt-hurt that your country wouldn't be able to completely fuck over the world economy at the drop of a hat.
 

SacremPyrobolum

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I thank the person who got the OP flagged, saved me from having to decipher a giant mess of text going on about the generalization of some 300 million people.
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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Tara Callie said:
Dirty Hipsters said:
Oh, you don't like America? Get in line, most of the world hates us, and we give zero fucks. We can't hear your butt hurt over the sound of our buying power and economic influence.
Hey, how's that housing crisis and economic recession you guys are responsible for?

OT: BTW OP, I think "The Right to Never Have to Grow Up" is probably somewhere in the American Constitution, since that seems to be the end-all and be all excuse that half their government makes when their obnoxious behavior is put on the world stage. "Blah blah blah Constitution!"

Now, to be fair, America is a diverse country. It's just that we never hear from the rational Americans because, like rational people, they're not up on the world stage pretending they rule the world. No, what us International people (and I apply that term very loosely since I'm Canadian) see of American Culture is simply one (albeit a monolithic one, but still only one) portion of their culture.

The overly patriotic, Christian Right Wing Republican crusaders who demand a moral standard that other MDC nations have delcared deplorable and scream out paranoid delusions that Gun Control will lead them straight into a dictatorship and that Free Speech applies to everything (except Natives, Muslims, gay people and women).

The only objective thing you could say about American Culture is that it's schitzophrenic. Every time you turn around, the nation's attitude changes. This is both a result of cultural perception and media coverage, but also the bizzare, convoluted manner with which they do politics. For example, it's possible in the US to have a Democrat president yet the entire Congress be Republican, whereas here in the Great White North such a thing is impossible.

The US is also split into multiple different cultural territories that constantly conflict with eachother. That and the fact that us in other countries see only what we want to see. And I can understand that. It's not very fun to watch a progressive guy in California being a decent person. But do you know what is fun? Watching some delusional jackass in the Bible Belt screaming to an audience that his imaginary friend told him to set his neighbour on fire.

It's more fun to watch Alex Jones or Glenn Beck shout out paranoid delusions that they need assault rifles in case the government comes a knocking than it is to watch Barack Obama give a reasonable speech. When they elect Jon Stewart President, then we'll get somewhere in that regard.

And all countries have this. Canada has a stereotype of touques and Tim Horton's. Japan has a stereotype of Tentacle Sex and crappy animation. Britain has a reputation for Harry Potter and Pip Pip Cheerio. Ireland is full of drunks. Scotland is full of skirts and bagpipes. China is nothing but rice and commiunism. France are cowards. Mexico Ci Senior! And these stereotypes wouldn't exist if we didn't adhere to them.

And that's okay. That's great in fact. It's GOOD that we mock one another and take it in return. It's GOOD that we have these stereotypes to knock us down a peg. Because if we didn't have the overblown stereotypes to playfully (or sometimes not so playfully) mock eachother with, this world would be a boring BORING place.
Stereotypes however do not encourage growth of society or cooperation. If we let stereotypes determine interactions with people, we cause nothing but conflict and misunderstanding when we can't see past the superficial and get to the core society we oversimplify.

I agree however that people only want to see the insane parts of a country but that is an ignorant way of looking at the world; you only care for the fringe and not the core of potentially diverse and rich culture. Something tells me that this is not that beneficial in an age of interconnectivity and globalization.

(p.s. I don't know if you have this stereotype but i take offense to the stereotype that Japan has crappy animation. Watch Akira, Evangelion, or even stuff like Psycho-Pass and you will see less cringe-worthy faces, and bright, clear backgrounds)
 

Izanagi009_v1legacy

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itsmeyouidiot said:
Fishes said:
Hero in a half shell said:
I agree... to an extent.

There are dozens of game types out there that don't even have male or female characters. There are many, many Arcade/Simulation/RTS etc. that don't even appear on the gender issues radar because they don't have genders in their games.

However if you look at the big hitters, the AAA games, the ones that get the multi million dollar advertising campaigns and sell the most copies, break records, etc. There are some gender issues that need to be addressed.

Virtually all the protagonists of these games are male. It's a big issue. If you tried to name as many dedicated male human videogame protagonists as you could you'd be in the triple figures before you start really struggling. Do it with females and it's difficult to go much further than 10.

Look at Naughty Dog's fight to keep a female character on the box art. Look at their discovery that marketers don't include girls when doing market research into videogames, Heck, Bioshock Infinite failed to keep Elizabeth on the box art, instead we got scruffy middle aged dark haired white guy #4536 holding a shotgun. *ORIGINALITY HO!*

Successful female videogame protagonists are very much the exception in the AAA industry, and the industry have no intentions of trying to change that. That is an issue, and it won't go away until we ask why it's there and try to correct it.
So, the problem is that media that emphasizes production values over things like originality and innovation employes stereotypically shallow marketing ploys and targets the demographic that prioritizes production values over originality and innovation?

Shallow media targets shallow people. Lucky for us, there is other media, no? Or to provide an actual example:

The movie Battleship cost five times as much to make as Lincoln, and two and a half times as much as Django. Why should this tick me off? As someone who laughed hysterically for ten minutes when I found out there were making a movie out of Battleship but did not see it, why do I need to actively campaign to change this trend?

Seems like supporting the heck out of media you adore gets the job done. That is while I was awaiting the expected reaction posts I got to play Stardrive. I supported the crap out of the 4x industry in all of it's incarnations even when it was presumed dead. I never gave up on it, because X-com got me into gaming when I dismissed it because my Dad played Doom. When I got the news about the first person shooter, I... Well can you guess what action I took?

Now I am going to go play Kerbal Space Program. I don't want to stop designing space ships, but I have had enough war today. What game are you going to go play? If it is Bioshock, you may wish to think about which one of us is actually supporting the game industry they hope to see next year.
What I think you don't understand is that it's possible to adore AAA titles like Bioshock while still disagreeing with the direction of the marketing and overall tone.

The main reason people dislike sexist tones in AAA games is because they greatly enjoy those games and don't want them to succumb to such unfortunate portrayals. True, games like Kerbal Space Program traditionally don't have this problem, but that's because they're an entirely different type of game than places zero focus on actual characters and story.

Games that do have identifiable characters will almost always be shallow in some way, whether it be sexism, glorified violence, or just plain bad storytelling; the games that are more responsible in tone are rare exception. It's not so much shallow media in gaming that we have a problem with, it's the near-complete lack of anything that isn't.
True, we wouldn't be so vocal if it was a game that no one wanted to play or like. The fact is that gaming has gone from a small hobby to a big industry and we are still stuck in the mindset of the hobbyist where we only want to appeal to the guaranteed audience (white, heterosexual males) instead of spreading out and trying to conquer other markets. We need to keep talking and try to help the industry become more inclusive in audience and characters and more intelligent in story and character arcs
 
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The OP getting flagged over such a post only says bad things about this forum. It was a lengthy because it served its point; the insults weren't gratuitous, they were there to make a point and were made clear to be satire after two or three paragraphs. It's not a good sign when the post is flagged and half the comments in the thread are about how people haven't read it all the way through.
 

LetalisK

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Guy from the 80 said:
Buying power, you mean all the money you lend from China?
You mean the all of 8% of our debt? The overwhelming majority of America's debt is owed to itself.
 

FalloutJack

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Grow up, huh? Wait...

*Keeps reading*

Hmmmm...

*Reads more*

Uhhhh...

*Scratches head*

I think he's a disgruntled writer, folks. Not sure, but perhaps.
 

Erttheking

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......"Sigh" well this thread turned into a mess real fast.

As for the OP, I got around halfway through before I stopped.
 

ScumdogSoldier

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A person makes a statement on the level of poorly thought out criticism of the gaming industry by self interest groups like feminists, mods flag him, and the community collectively decides not to read it.


Beautiful. Fucking beautiful.