Entitlement: Is it ruining our community?

[GigaHz]

I believe that it is within the rights of the consumer to complain if they are not getting their moneys worth. Especially if the game in question has segments that should have been in the game available as DLC, extending the game beyond the $60 price tag.

That said, I believe it is the customers responsibility to research the game they are buying before they buy it, rather than blindly purchasing it on release day due to hype or whatever.

If say for example, you decide to buy a game made by an independent studio, it is unrealistic to expect their game to have as much playability as a mainstream sandbox game. Plus there are some games made by big name studios that are designed to be short, simply due to the nature of the game itself (Child of Eden for example). It is beyond unreasonable to expect every game to be a 60+ hour epic tale. Though on the same token, it is a slap in the face if a full price game can be completed in a single seating unless the gameplay is compelling or unique.

 

[antofdeath]

Good points but I was more focused on the old promise when it came out that the price would go back down when the technology to mass produce blu rays caught up. Essentially Walmart and certain video game stores will never reduce their price I've seen copies of Tabula Rasa in future shop months after they killed the server and well like a year and a half after the thing even released. (Where I live we have overabundance in everything hardware and software during the Ps3/Wii shortages we had so many most of the customer just shrugged them off and waited for the price to go down here)

I do feel I am entitled to be able to pirate a game with the freedom to decide if the game is worth going out and buying, actually about half the games I've pirated (not many to note) I actually went out and bought after a little bit of play. Is that entitlement? Probably but it seems pretty valid to me and sure EA would call Hax on that statement but in a market full of bloatware :3 why should I be supporting games I hate.

BTW Sorry for partially derailing the topic with my... broad definition of the word entitlement.

 

[Nimcha]

Entitlement only ruins threads on RPGs, Bioware RPGs specifically.

Oh dear Lord. Yes. While I wouldn't say that's the only place it's the problem, Bioware fans are just... wow.

OT: I would say, besides Bioware fans, we are just as bad. Not that that excuses it though.

Oi, I call myself a Bioware fan...

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Entitlement only ruins threads on RPGs, Bioware RPGs specifically.

Oh dear Lord. Yes. While I wouldn't say that's the only place it's the problem, Bioware fans are just... wow.

OT: I would say, besides Bioware fans, we are just as bad. Not that that excuses it though.

Oi, I call myself a Bioware fan...

A fan of Bioware is not the same as a Bioware fan

The former enjoys the games Bioware makes.

The latter is an entitled jerk who would complain if Bioware gave them a solid gold robot that did dishes, on the grounds that it did not also do their laundry.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Entitlement only ruins threads on RPGs, Bioware RPGs specifically.

Oh dear Lord. Yes. While I wouldn't say that's the only place it's the problem, Bioware fans are just... wow.

OT: I would say, besides Bioware fans, we are just as bad. Not that that excuses it though.

Oi, I call myself a Bioware fan...

A fan of Bioware is not the same as a Bioware fan

The former enjoys the games Bioware makes.

The latter is an entitled jerk who would complain if Bioware gave them a solid gold robot that did dishes, on the grounds that it did not also do their laundry.

Or somebody who sees the obvious slow decline in quality from DA:O to Mass Effect 2 to DA2 and is concerned with the direction that the owning mega-publishing conglomerate is taking with Bioware.

They would fall under the former.

I'm talking about they kind who want all things to be free or of little to no charge, not those who voice legitimate critique.

 

[88chaz88]

Or somebody who sees the obvious slow decline in quality from DA:O to Mass Effect 2 to DA2 and is concerned with the direction that the owning mega-publishing conglomerate is taking with Bioware.

I'd like to say I preferred a lot of ME2 to ME1, DA:O, and DA2. I'm hoping that DA2 was just a serious misstep and ME3 will at least be a decent successor and end to the series.

 

[Nimcha]

Entitlement only ruins threads on RPGs, Bioware RPGs specifically.

Oh dear Lord. Yes. While I wouldn't say that's the only place it's the problem, Bioware fans are just... wow.

OT: I would say, besides Bioware fans, we are just as bad. Not that that excuses it though.

Oi, I call myself a Bioware fan...

A fan of Bioware is not the same as a Bioware fan

The former enjoys the games Bioware makes.

The latter is an entitled jerk who would complain if Bioware gave them a solid gold robot that did dishes, on the grounds that it did not also do their laundry.

Hah. Very well put.

 

[Zhukov]

Or somebody who sees the obvious slow decline in quality from DA:O to Mass Effect 2 to DA2 and is concerned with the direction that the owning mega-publishing conglomerate is taking with Bioware.

Freeze! Subjectivity police!

I would like to take this opportunity to say that I thought that ME2 was superior to ME1 in almost every single way.

Also, I regard DA2 to be of roughly equal quality to DA1. Although, granted, it had some glaring flaws.

Basically, framing your opinion in terms of "the obvious" does not make it fact.

 

[Fishyash]

Entitlement exists everywhere unfortunately, not just in gaming. It is really stupid that people expect that just because they pay for something it's going to fit their every need or it is not worth the "£x that I spent on this".

Yeah it's a pain. And it's not only in gaming.

 

[FalloutJack]

Complaining about bad games is good.
If the game you bought is terrible and you warn other people away, you're doing other gamers a service.

Also the customer is king.
So rant away.

Exactly. Customer is king. The customer may not always make wise decisions, but that is the rule. Your product has to be what we want, or why do you deserve money? I'm aware that that is the most slippery of slopes, but you put on those skis, so you go down that mountain. Any company afraid of the abominable snowman waiting for them should press F to go faster.

 

[AlternatePFG]

Or somebody who sees the obvious slow decline in quality from DA:O to Mass Effect 2 to DA2 and is concerned with the direction that the owning mega-publishing conglomerate is taking with Bioware.

Freeze! Subjectivity police!

I would like to take this opportunity to say that I thought that ME2 was superior to ME1 in almost every single way.

As much as I dislike the way BioWare just trashed the inventory/ skill elements of ME1 instead of improving them, I think you're completely right, except for ME2's horrible main plot. (But it's an small portion of the game and the other bits of story/character development make up for it) It's really just a more fun game all around. As an RPG, I really don't think ME1 was much of one in the first place, so I don't particularly look at them as RPGs.

On-Topic: While I don't think people have the right to tell developers what they should do, I do think you have a right to criticize a game if you paid for it. Helps the developer to learn from their mistakes, and perhaps avoid those problems in the future.

 

[Zhukov]

Or somebody who sees the obvious slow decline in quality from DA:O to Mass Effect 2 to DA2 and is concerned with the direction that the owning mega-publishing conglomerate is taking with Bioware.

Freeze! Subjectivity police!

I would like to take this opportunity to say that I thought that ME2 was superior to ME1 in almost every single way.

Also, I regard DA2 to be of roughly equal quality to DA1. Although, granted, it had some glaring flaws.

Basically, framing your opinion in terms of "the obvious" does not make it fact.

Going in that order, they each had fewer and fewer RPG elements. So if we're judging them as RPGs, they were in fact of lower quality.

Not even mentioning the writing in each of the titles. Which also declined in that order.

You're still doing it.

Stating that "the writing declined" does not make it so. I preferred the writing in ME2 to that in ME1 by a considerable margin. I regard the writing in DA2 to be roughly equal to that of DA1. Prove me wrong.

As for RPG elements, quantity does not equal quality. Putting more numbers that get bigger into a game does not automatically make it a better RPG.

 

[SageRuffin]

Our community? Entitlement is ruining the human race. Work customer service of any kind for a single day and you'll agree.

I'm sure I'm one of a few here who worked fast food once upon a time. It's a thankless job where no one seems to care that you're busting your ass trying to make other people's lives easier.

I suppose game development can be looked at the same way. Sure, there are some missteps here and there, but that's life. Gotta have some balance some kind of way, and everybody whining about silly shit is only gonna make the situation worse for everyone.

 

[Zhukov]

Or somebody who sees the obvious slow decline in quality from DA:O to Mass Effect 2 to DA2 and is concerned with the direction that the owning mega-publishing conglomerate is taking with Bioware.

Freeze! Subjectivity police!

I would like to take this opportunity to say that I thought that ME2 was superior to ME1 in almost every single way.

As much as I dislike the way BioWare just trashed the inventory/ skill elements of ME1 instead of improving them, I think you're completely right, except for ME2's horrible main plot.

Until recently I would have agreed with you about the main plot.

However, I have recently been replaying ME1. The main story was not anywhere near as good as I remember. For example, the reveal regarding the nature of the Reapers was painfully clumsy.

Benezia recording: "And one step closer to the return of the Reapers."
Tali: "The Geth believe that the Reapers wipe everything out every 50,000 years."
Shepard: "OH MY GOD, MY VISION! THE ENTIRE GALAXY IS IN DANGER!"

Seriously, I wish I was joking.

And don't even get me started on the villains. Saren and Benezia were so corny I could only laugh at every scene they appeared in. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrgNgnkvrA0]

 

[Asti]

I think when you pay as much as $60 on something, it gives you the right to complain when it doesn't live up to your expectations. It is a lot of money that could buy you a lot of other things and I think when consumers don't demand the best they can get for their money, overall quality will tank.

Being critical can push the medium forward, but it doesn't mean everything has to be free or really really cheap. Videogames just have to justify their high price.

 

[AlternatePFG]

Until recently I would have agreed with you about the main plot.

However, I have recently been replaying ME1. The main story was not anywhere near as good as I remember. For example, the reveal regarding the nature of the Reapers was painfully clumsy.

Benezia recording: "And one step closer to the return of the Reapers."
Tali: "The Geth believe that the Reapers wipe everything out every 50,000 years."
Shepard: "OH MY GOD, MY VISION! THE ENTIRE GALAXY IS IN DANGER!"

Seriously, I wish I was joking.

And don't even get me started on the villains. Saren and Benezia were so corny I could only laugh at every scene they appeared in. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrgNgnkvrA0]

Currently, I just went through ME1 and now am playing through the second one with all the major DLC installed and while there was some pretty corny dialogue, I thought for the most part it was pretty solid. My whole problem with ME2 was the whole Cerberus thing and the idiot plot that surrounded it.

Saren was a pretty good villain (I agree that scene was extremely silly though) but Harbringer and the Collectors weren't. Mostly because he spouts the same lines over and over again, and aside from getting lucky and killing Shepard early on in the game (Which was another problem I had. It just seemed like a cheap excuse for resetting the status quo) they don't really seem like a threat to you.

The story seemed rather inconsequential aside from characters and their development but it's the second act of a three act story so that makes sense. That's why I can say (In my opinion of course) that the main story is terrible but still really like the game. My problem is that a majority of your crew can die (Which usually it won't so I guess this depends from player to player) making the second game's impact almost entirely moot.

The loyalty missions and most of the sidequests with actually story were really well done though.

As for the whole RPG argument, I never really thought ME1 was good to begin was as an RPG but I still think that's it's pretty fun as a shooter, so that's how I look at the series.

 

[LordSphinx]

I would have thought that the OP was more specifically saying that the game developers and publishers are now feeling forced to listen to fanboys raging over forums than listening to themselves. This has for consequence to diminish the vision unique to the developers when they make games.

Let's take Bioware's new stance on game design for instance. In Mass Effect 1, the game was more of an RPG and less of a shooter. Then a large part of the gaming community, not being appreciative of the RPG aspects of the game, complained that it wasn't up to their misplaced expectations. And I'm not saying that combat in Mass Effect couldn't be improved or that Mass Effect 2 is a bad game. I've played and appreciated both titles and I probably will play Mass Effect 3 as well, although it really feels like it's gonna be an almost pure 3rd person shooter according to previews and such.

The problem here isn't that the resulting games will necessarily suck. But it certainly means that every games will look alike as it caters to the most vocal group of people. This affects diversity in a very negative way, which means that I, for one, could get disinterested in games if it weren't of some courageous developers who still follow their own visions rather than be a bunch of "yes men" who can't assume a choice for themselves.

A large part of the consumers, primarily obnoxious american idiots stating stupid things such as "the customer is always right" or "the consumer is king", will always complain about what the game isn't, rather than observe what the game is. I want to discover new games, not play an ongoing perfection of a single title. Look at the comic book industry: it is extremely secular because the consumer got exactly what they asked, and that became so specific that anyone who isn't exactly into THAT didn't feel compelled by the medium. Aside from a very few exceptions, that medium is dead as an art form today. The same will happen to video games if we don't wake up.