Episode 7: "You Win or You Die"

[Stein Inge]

So, I have read part of the book, but have yet to catch up to the show. So I'm still in the dark!

But during the episode when they discussed the assassination of Daenerys my thinking that Ned was right, but not only for the reasons given: attempting an assassination, and failing, would guarantee the exact result they had hoped to avoid. And lo and behold this episode proved my thinking right. I think if this argument was put foward it would have been a much stronger position to convince others to at least wait before such a measure was undertaken.

And you think a successful assassination would be any better? Unless they tried really hard to make it look like a sickness or an accident, Drogo would have still flipped his shit. Honestly, I don't think the man needs a reason to go rape and pillage, give him one and that'll be terrifying.

Perhaps that was the point? Someone wanted to encourage Drogo to go on the war path. I seem to remember that he showed little interest in crossing the narrow sea before...

But that raises the question: Who in Westros(sp?) would benefit from that. Little finger has other schemes. The fat eunuch; what would he stand to gain from a Dothraki invasion? It does sort of help whoever is sitting on the throne at that time as such a massive outside threat does great things for unity. Drogo could also be helpful for killing whatever happens to be north of the wall. Let the realm get subjugated by Drogo and then he wears himself out against whatever it is then anyone with a decent amount of influence could take the throne.

I was thinking that maybe the new Dothreki (sp?) queen thought that maybe her husband needed a little... push?

 

[Ganthrinor]

So, I have read part of the book, but have yet to catch up to the show. So I'm still in the dark!

But during the episode when they discussed the assassination of Daenerys my thinking that Ned was right, but not only for the reasons given: attempting an assassination, and failing, would guarantee the exact result they had hoped to avoid. And lo and behold this episode proved my thinking right. I think if this argument was put foward it would have been a much stronger position to convince others to at least wait before such a measure was undertaken.

And you think a successful assassination would be any better? Unless they tried really hard to make it look like a sickness or an accident, Drogo would have still flipped his shit. Honestly, I don't think the man needs a reason to go rape and pillage, give him one and that'll be terrifying.

Perhaps that was the point? Someone wanted to encourage Drogo to go on the war path. I seem to remember that he showed little interest in crossing the narrow sea before...

But that raises the question: Who in Westros(sp?) would benefit from that. Little finger has other schemes. The fat eunuch; what would he stand to gain from a Dothraki invasion? It does sort of help whoever is sitting on the throne at that time as such a massive outside threat does great things for unity. Drogo could also be helpful for killing whatever happens to be north of the wall. Let the realm get subjugated by Drogo and then he wears himself out against whatever it is then anyone with a decent amount of influence could take the throne.

That is a good question to ask and unfortunately, not all of the Dramatis Personae have been introduced yet so any guesses are more or less shots in the dark at this point. Just to frustrate you a bit, I will say that the evolution of this story is *very* dynamic and you can expect a lot of the status quo to change in the coming episodes as characters change and goals are achieved or rendered obsolete.

 

[TheShogun]

Does the first season start and end where the first book strats and ends?

 

[TheShogun]

Does the first season start and end where the first book starts and ends?

 

[Susan Arendt]

Does the first season start and end where the first book strats and ends?

I think so, yes. But we'll see. There are three episodes left, I believe.

 

[RandV80]

Great Recap.

Brilliant episode. Ned just keeps getting screwed over.

And did Ser Jorah get a pardon from the spider? Is he working against Daenerys?

Shame an episode without Tyrion but good to see Jon Snow back.

This was a new scene to the series, but the way I interpreted the part with Jorah is that the pardon basically says 'good job, the girl will die, you can come home now'. Why else would he get the pardon if he wasn't needed to spy anymore? But then some inner turmoil takes place, he started out as a spy because his only goal was to be able to return home, but over the months traveling with Dany she's earned his respect and admiration so he's no longer willing to return home at all costs and rushes off to save her.

For the assassination attempt itself, there's a lot of misconception from new people to the series. That initial argument to kill her or not was much more complex on the 'how' in the books, and I'm not going to go into detail because this is a spoilers free forum, but let's just say the actual method being employed here (because it likely won't come up again) is more of a shotgun approach. Announce a great reward and a lordship for the demise of Daenerys Targaryen, and let whoever is brave enough take their shot. The dude with the wine really was just a merchant, not an assassin, who decided to take his chance for the reward.

 

[snfonseka]

I think what Ser Jorah did is a part of the plan of the spider. This is the way to make sure that invasion will happen.

 

[snfonseka]

Great Recap.

Brilliant episode. Ned just keeps getting screwed over.

And did Ser Jorah get a pardon from the spider? Is he working against Daenerys?

Shame an episode without Tyrion but good to see Jon Snow back.

He is a spy for the spider. It was clearly mentioned few episodes ago. What I think is, saving Daenerys life from the poison is part of the plan too.

 

[Melnordan]

Should Robert have tried to kill the girl? No. Let a sleeping dog lie. The attempt is what is going to cause the undesired action, aka the hoard crossing the narrow sea.

As for Ned Stark and his honor. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and having not read the book I have no idea how this is going to turn out but after seeing the last episode all bets are off. It's sort of refreshing to have all the main characters on the chopping block. In a normal TV show half the tension of the scene is lost when it come to the main actors cause you know they can't die. With this show anyone could be next. I was sure that the Visery was going to be a sniveling little worm through the entire show but when they burned him out my jaw hit the floor. spend all that screen time on a character that you are just going to kill off? wow there are a few people I am no longer sure are going to make it to the end of this now. I love it.

 

[RandallJohn]

Here's something interesting: Khal Drogo plans to enslave the children of Westeros, rape the women, et cetera, right?

...but didn't Ser Jorah JUST receive a pardon to return to his family, who is still in Westeros? Gotta wonder what was going through his head there.

 

[TyrunnAlberyn]

Here's something interesting: Khal Drogo plans to enslave the children of Westeros, rape the women, et cetera, right?

...but didn't Ser Jorah JUST receive a pardon to return to his family, who is still in Westeros? Gotta wonder what was going through his head there.

Yep, but as a reader of the book, I can tell you, that family is fairly limited. His father is Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, so is part of a neutral force that won't get involved in fights like this. His aunt and nieces inherited their home of Bear Island, which is so far north and so desolate (not to mention an island, which would mean crossing the sea AGAIN for the horde even if they did get that far), they're an unlikely target. I'd say Jorah's family is safe, at least from the Dothraki .

 

[anian]

...but didn't Ser Jorah JUST receive a pardon to return to his family, who is still in Westeros? Gotta wonder what was going through his head there.

Well since he saved the kalessis' (probably not spelt correctly) life, I'm sure he can trade the "any stallion you want" to "don't rape my wife and enslave my children".
But you should be thinking in the way of who can give out a pardon - the king - so it also probably says to kill Daenerys...in the end this might prove wrong though (I haven't read the book), but it probably isn't the case, after what RandV80 said, unless they changed things a bit from the sseries conversion.

Damn this weekly releases, so long to wait for the resolution. I probably won't read the book, this is very interesting tale and show without the expanded universe, besides I'll kind of feel tacky for buying the book since now all the editions are with the cover with a picture from the series (Sean Bean sitting on the Iron throne if I remember correctly).

 

[TheShogun]

...but didn't Ser Jorah JUST receive a pardon to return to his family, who is still in Westeros? Gotta wonder what was going through his head there.

Well since he saved the kalessis' (probably not spelt correctly) life, I'm sure he can trade the "any stallion you want" to "don't rape my wife and enslave my children".
But you should be thinking in the way of who can give out a pardon - the king - so it also probably says to kill Daenerys...in the end this might prove wrong though (I haven't read the book), but it probably isn't the case, after what RandV80 said, unless they changed things a bit from the sseries conversion.

Damn this weekly releases, so long to wait for the resolution. I probably won't read the book, this is very interesting tale and show without the expanded universe, besides I'll kind of feel tacky for buying the book since now all the editions are with the cover with a picture from the series (Sean Bean sitting on the Iron throne if I remember correctly).

As people have said before me, would it not be the Spider? I think he is still loyal to the Targaryens, so he might be testing Ser Jorah's loyalty.

 

[Bearjing]

As people have said before me, would it not be the Spider? I think he is still loyal to the Targaryens, so he might be testing Ser Jorah's loyalty.

I don't think so. Cause if he wasn't loyal, then he would of kill the very last Targaryen. Seems way to risky over an unimportant man.

 

[TwistedEllipses]

Even though Ned Stark has shown himself to be too honourable for his own good, it's a shame since he seemed to be fairly astute about the kingdom. He seemed to take the return of the winter-walkers seriously, acknowledged the coffers are run dry and knew the assassination attempt of the kalessis was a bad idea (though for the wrong reasons)...

...Sean Bean never survives a medieval epic, but yet in the Napoleonic era he's practically unstoppable...

 

[anian]

As people have said before me, would it not be the Spider? I think he is still loyal to the Targaryens, so he might be testing Ser Jorah's loyalty.

It probably is Spider that sent the message, but remember they had time (he and Littlefinger) to talk to the king in the coucil, when Ned walked away. They agreed to kill the Daenerys and there's been an atempt, but there's been so many turn arounds and it wasn't mentioned if they sent more than 1 assassin nor if maybe there's a backup...and it would just cost a pardon of an old Ser.
Again, it might be just the Spider's doing, but I still don't know how Jorah got a pardon from a member of a council, shouldn't that be a king's decision and Bob was still pretty much a king when the message was sent.

 

[Mathak]

Nice recap, but it might be worth mentioning that Robert's younger brother, Renly, makes a play for the throne and flees the city when Ned refuses to support him, since we'll be seeing more of him later.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Definitely the assassination was wrong as it gave Drogo a reason to cross the sea. I don't think that the Steward had the grapes to fuck with his wine but one of the others could of used family ties to get into a position to fuck with the wine.

 

[Vortigar]

The more I'm watching this the more it's apparent that Sharpe and Stark are basically the same character. Is this because it was written that way or because Sean Bean plays him that way? I don't want any spoilers from those who read the books but I've got to ask.

Also, how many people here have actually watched the Sharpe film and noticed the similarities. Man of honour amidst a bunch of treacherous bastards, a soldier who attained wealth through skill of arms rather than diplomacy, etc.