Equipment wear and tear in games.

[Asmundr]

First off I want to get a few things out of the way so I'll be very brief about them: This is my first thread here so go easy on me if its in the wrong area. Also please keep the flaming and such down to a minimum (no trolling please. I'm a good shot. You have been warned). Please pardon any spelling or grammatical errors. Please be constructive.

-Thank you.

Now...Warning >>Wall of Text<<

The topic question: What are your thoughts on equipment degradation in games? List both the pros and cons of having such a thing implemented, and to what extent does it become either an annoyance or something that slightly boosts immersion.

The reason I'm asking this is because a few of my friends and I are bouncing around an idea for a game. We were wondering how to properly implement equipment degradation without it becoming to tedious. But, first I want to know how some people view the degradation of equipment in games and get a general feel for things. On the game we're working on I ask you all to please not ask for tons of details like setting, game play, etc. because I don't want to have to tell my team that our idea was stolen. Also, sorry but please do not PM me, email me, or ask if you can help. I will answer some questions though so don't feel like I'm walling you in. Just don't be surprised if I say I can't answer.

Personally I believe that equipment wear and tear can increase immersion for the player if done right. If poorly implemented it simply becomes and annoyance; like having a sword become dull after only a few swings.

 

[WrongSprite]

Personally I believe that equipment wear and tear can increase immersion for the player if done right. If poorly implemented it simply becomes and annoyance; like having a sword become dull after only a few swings.

Essentially this. I love it where it works nicely, I.E. Oblivion, Morrowind, Fallout, Far Cry 2.
But if it's just going to turn your weapons into straw, then it's going to be irritating.

 

[Broady Brio]

Dead Rising has this game mechanic.

Though I feel that those weapons should last a bit longer. (Yes, yes I know there is books that do that.)

 

[Gxas]

First off I want to get a few things out of the way so I'll be very brief about them: This is my first thread here so go easy on me if its in the wrong area. Also please keep the flaming and such down to a minimum (no trolling please. I'm a good shot. You have been warned). Please pardon any spelling or grammatical errors. Please be constructive.

-Thank you.

Now...Warning >>Wall of Text<<

Hardly... This is quite an acceptable paragraph.

The topic question: What are your thoughts on equipment degradation in games? List both the pros and cons of having such a thing implemented, and to what extent does it become either an annoyance or something that slightly boosts immersion.

I just have to comment, this sounds like you're assigning us a paper. Its quite humorous to me.

The reason I'm asking this is because a few of my friends and I are bouncing around an idea for a game. We were wondering how to properly implement equipment degradation without it becoming to tedious. But, first I want to know how some people view the degradation of equipment in games and get a general feel for things. On the game we're working on I ask you all to please not ask for tons of details like setting, game play, etc. because I don't want to have to tell my team that our idea was stolen. Also, sorry but please do not PM me, email me, or ask if you can help. I will answer some questions though so don't feel like I'm walling you in. Just don't be surprised if I say I can't answer.

Personally I believe that equipment wear and tear can increase immersion for the player if done right. If poorly implemented it simply becomes and annoyance; like having a sword become dull after only a few swings.

I think that equipment degradation is a terrible idea. If I lose my armor I worked so hard obtaining just because its old, then I'm angry. Plus, repairs are just a money-sink. Its ridiculously annoying no matter how its done in my mind.

 

[Asmundr]

Ever played Fallout 3? I loved that system and never found it bothersome. Repairing my gear, watching that sunset. Raid a random grocery store. All fun in my book.

I enjoyed playing Fallout 3. The gear repping wasn't annoying as it is in some of the other games I've played. Though I preferred to raid raiders for bullets and gun parts lol. The only downside I about Fallout 3's repping system was that I would have to carry around extra rifles to repair the one, the weight got kind of annoying after a while and I thought it clogged the inventory.

 

[Eduku]

I don't really like it at all to be honest. I know it's all realism and that, but I don't find it fun.

 

[rockyoumonkeys]

Meh, if it's done well like in Fallout 3, fine. If they make it a chore to repair your stuff, no thanks. I could do without it entirely, but at least in Fallout 3 they make it easy for you to keep your stuff repaired and it gives you added incentive to loot everything and everyone.

 

[Agayek]

It depends on the game, but I generally like equipment degradation in RPG-esque games. It adds a level of immersion and makes things just a bit more realistic.

That said, I'm not a fan of things like Fallout 3's system, where you had to find exact copies of the item you were trying to repair. More often than not, that just lead to me being unable to use my favorite weapon (Combat Shotgun, for the curious) as extra copies were pretty rare. It was aggressively unnecessary to not just have some alternative form of "repair currency".

The ideal degradation/repair system would be where each type of item uses a certain resource in repairs(ie, armor requires scrap metal or a gun requires scrap metal and mechanical gizmo), and the amount used is based on the damage the item has taken. A decent spread of resources, as long as no particular one is exceptionally rare, would make for a damn near perfect system.

Edit: If an item ever runs out of durability points (or whatever you call it), it should never just vanish. Making it unusable is perfectly acceptable, but complete loss of the item is a very bad idea.

 

[Something Amyss]

Ever played Fallout 3? I loved that system and never found it bothersome. Repairing my gear, watching that sunset. Raid a random grocery store. All fun in my book.

I was about to point out how much I hate micromanagement, then I saw your post. Fallout 3 does it well and I like it in that context. If they can get it right, it's cool. It also needs to be genre appropriate. I don't want to be in a high action game stopping to clean my gun every two minutes

 

[Zombus]

I personally can't stand equipment degradation at all. Sure, it serves to balance in-game economy (to a degree), but there are, in my opinion, much better and much less irritating ways to do this. The only way I can appreciate degradation is when it is in place to reinforce an atmosphere, for example powerlessness. Although upon reflection, it is probably the feeling of powerlessness that makes me so against equipment degradation in the first place.

 

[p3t3r]

kind of annoying i was never like "ya degrading weapons!!!!" or anything. the thing i hate more though is having limits on how much i can carry. i want to be able to pick up every damn thing i want

 

[CrystalShadow]

I've generally found that most games that account for 'wear and tear' in any sense overdo it.

Most real items don't break anywhere near as easily as what I've witnessed from items in games that do this.

Granted, it's quite possible to break things with little or no warning too, but games always seem to get it wrong just because they feel like if you're going to implement a feature it has to be obvious that it exists.

I think it's a tricky thing to get right, so you have to ask yourself what purpose it serves in your game and if it actually makes the game more interesting, or if it's just irritating.

 

[Asmundr]

First off I want to get a few things out of the way so I'll be very brief about them: This is my first thread here so go easy on me if its in the wrong area. Also please keep the flaming and such down to a minimum (no trolling please. I'm a good shot. You have been warned). Please pardon any spelling or grammatical errors. Please be constructive.

-Thank you.

Now...Warning >>Wall of Text<<

Hardly... This is quite an acceptable paragraph.

The topic question: What are your thoughts on equipment degradation in games? List both the pros and cons of having such a thing implemented, and to what extent does it become either an annoyance or something that slightly boosts immersion.

I just have to comment, this sounds like you're assigning us a paper. Its quite humorous to me.

I think that equipment degradation is a terrible idea. If I lose my armor I worked so hard obtaining just because its old, then I'm angry. Plus, repairs are just a money-sink. Its ridiculously annoying no matter how its done in my mind.

Lol, sorry about making it sound like an assignment, I just got out of class.
I'll have to admit, it becomes aggravating when not only do I have to repair (or loose my stuff) because its old but then have to waste time gathering money to do it all.

 

[andreas3K]

I think the best way to repair stuff is to have spare parts as a resource and you could turn any weapon into spare parts and use that to repair any weapon. That way you don't have to carry 5 rifles just to maintain one. You should also make the stuff pretty durable and the item's performance shouldn't suffer too greatly when it degrades. Maybe even have the option to clean your weapon to prevent degradation.

 

[Erana]

I generally dislike weapon degradation, and if you're wanting to design a game, think about how often you're going to be upgrading your equipment? I've played a lot of games where equipment durability is a moot point, because you trade in your items before you ever notice a difference in wear.
The thing that gets to me the most about gear degredation is that you only have it at its best briefly, and its usually marred before you get to where you need it at its best. It all goes downhill after you obtain/repair it.
Now, I wouldn't mind seeing temporary, but frequently used power-ups in a game, especially if it was a significant or interesting game mechanic.
Really, though, its more often a burden to games than not.

 

[paddytheiceman]

I feel like some games don't take into account the durability of items/materials in the real world, and this can be a major source of annoyance, as a (I would say so myself) fairly intelligent person I know that a suit of steel plate would become destroyed by the rigours of combat slower than say, my best tuxedo, but a lot of games I have seen don't employ this kind of thinking, and opt instead for a "one size fits all" durability system.

The second annoyance that I find as a gamer is the fact that i am required to spend in game currency in all of its forms on repairs for items that I am currently wearing, instead of saving that shiny new helmet or whatever particular piece of gear I am eyeballing at the time. Two games that have broken this trend for me were TES Oblivion, and Fallout 3. Oblivion because of the ability to find repair hammers. Although I can splurge my hard earned GP on repairs from a merchant, i can invest some time and effort, and get my repairs off of my own back. Fallout 3 obviously instigated a similar system, but instead with duplicate weapons being used for repair.

In short, the moral of my post is... remember the difference between cloth and metal ect and don?t force me to spend my hard earned cash on maintaining my gear if I don?t want to, give me an alternative.

I apologize if anyone finds my explanation of repair systems patronizing or insulting, but there are people out there who have not played these games. Good luck with your game Asmundr, hope you guys do well.

 

[Asmundr]

I've generally found that most games that account for 'wear and tear' in any sense overdo it.

Most real items don't break anywhere near as easily as what I've witnessed from items in games that do this.

Granted, it's quite possible to break things with little or no warning too, but games always seem to get it wrong just because they feel like if you're going to implement a feature it has to be obvious that it exists.

I think it's a tricky thing to get right, so you have to ask yourself what purpose it serves in your game and if it actually makes the game more interesting, or if it's just irritating.

Good stuff, especially on the last bit.

It is tricky to implement equipment degradation and get it right. Fallout 3 had it right on some levels but like I posted earlier it gets annoying to have to find exact copies of guns, then lug tons of them around just so you can rep your weapon with them.

To me something like this works in some RPG's and "apocalyptic" games like Fallout. Other game types it is just pointless and even more so that if your "item" breaks its gone for good.