ESA Weighs In On Possible Xbox 360 Ban

[mew4ever23]

Goes without saying, but

Spoiler

Turn off annotations to stop the loop.

This could really hurt the video game industry as a whole, and would hammer the American economy. All Xbox development would cease, so would Xbox Live - Why support a platform that can't be sold anymore?

Many many jobs would be lost. I really hope the commission realize what a terrible idea it would be to ban the console over this infringement - go for a license agreement instead.

No, "I'm too rich and famous" is not a defense against a console ban for what they did, but "This will hurt the whole country, and everyone across the globe" is. License. Please.

Or what Microsoft did this e3 is moot.

 

[gigastar]

I think I speak for all Xbox owners when I say imposing a Licensing Agreement has a MUCH better ring to it.

Well played. Except for the part where it isn't fucking funny, since it could result in the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs in the US, and millions of additional jobs world-wide.

I fail to see the source of that exaggeration, care to expand a little bit please?

Is it *really* necessary to provide a citation for why the blocking of import of one of the leading consumer entertainment products might cause job losses both in the US and in each country which produces the components for the product?

Not to mention the fact that banning the product from import into the US would lend greater legitimacy to the claim, likely leading to import holds in most Western countries.

This is basic market economics, not neurosurgery or astrophysics.

I mean, I guess I could dumb it down a bit for you. Here:

"When it isn't legal for you to sell your product, you start firing people."

Well in my mind the only people i can see actually losing out in the event of a ban of 360 console sales is retailers.

Its the end of the current console cycle so all of Microsoft's gaming hardware department is focused on making the nextbox. Thier marketing teams are also probably at work devising viral ads for the nextbox as well, if not working on other Microsoft products.

The manufacturers, whom last time i checked were Chinese, certainly wont lose out. The Chinese manufacturing industry can literally be compared to cancer, you can kill small bits of it but that will regenerate and it will continue to grow overall.

For those responsible for transporting the 360's across the world, they wont even register the losses, because someone always wants something transported in this day and age.

And even then retailers arent about to go under because its now illeagal for them to sell a 7-year-old console. Everybody knows that retailers mostly make money off of either used game sales or day one game sales.

And most importantly, the sales ban would only be in effect in the United States and Germany. Hardly even a third of the area where a 360 is available for purchase.

So, maybe your initial comment was a tiny bit exaggerative?

 

[Dr Jones]

I think I speak for all Xbox owners when I say imposing a Licensing Agreement has a MUCH better ring to it.

Well played. Except for the part where it isn't fucking funny, since it could result in the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs in the US, and millions of additional jobs world-wide.

Calm down, it's called a joke. I bet you've laughed at atleast one WWII joke in your life, and by your logic, that probably makes you a horrible person.

 

[mew4ever23]

-huge snip-

You're forgetting that e3 has just passed and Microsoft isn't talking hardware - they pushed a big pile of money in the Kinect garbage can a couple years back.

 

[gigastar]

-huge snip-

You're forgetting that e3 has just passed and Microsoft isn't talking hardware - they pushed a big pile of money in the Kinect garbage can a couple years back.

True, but even if Microsoft doesnt talk hardware its hard to think that they arent doing hardware when Sony has all but announced the PS4 with this "Project Orion", or whatever its called.

And money is no object for Microsofts gaming division. To them its a renewable resource akin to the wind, or sunlight.

 

[Vault101]

While the obvious shanking of the Videogames Industry and Worldwide Jobs market is nothing to get over-excited about, I would quite like to see this happen just to see the shitstorm that will result from all the beady-necked teenagers who will have to actually... GO OUTSIDE to entertain themselves.

Good Lord. These are the End Days.

hahahahaha

insulting people with stupid sterotypes

so fucking hilarious

 

[RvLeshrac]

I own a 360 and all that but... if they infringe upon patents then they shouldnt be punished as money is involved?! What the fuck is the point in patents then? I would see Microsoft burn and all 360s be recalled before I accept this kind of bullshit corporate hypocrisy.

You're guilty of murder. Since I said it, it must be true. We'll execute you now, then hold your trial in three weeks.

I mean, the evidence against you is substantial, so why should we bother going to trial BEFORE handing out a punishment?

Except that in reality there is absolutely no evidence of your claim... have you read the article? Do they say that it isnt patented? No, in fact it quite categorically states it does infringe upon patents... so what the hell are you talking about?

Have you read the article? Or been keeping up with the case for months now? This case hasn't even gone to trial yet, and the bulk of the evidence is actually on Microsoft's side.

In May, Judge David Shaw recommended to the International Trade Commission that the importation and sale of the Xbox 360 be banned in the United States because the console infringes upon patents held by Motorola.

Bish, bash, bosh. Case closed. Job done. Game over. Go to bed.

Interesting that the ruling isn't final until August, making this a preliminary decision. The ruling is, further, subject to numerous levels of appeal.

 

[Matt King]

nice that EA are on the good side for once,
even if it is for totally selfish reasons

 

[ResonanceSD]

Wait, these guys supported SOPA? Well then, burn in hell, Microsoft's XBOX team.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

The lesson here, folks: don't steal other people's patents. Unless your Microsoft. Then it's okay.

$1000 says if it was Microsoft that had a patent stolen, they'd sue the other company into the ground and not stop until there's nothing left.

 

[RvLeshrac]

If Microsoft really infringed on Motorola's stuff, no sympathy there. Ban sale of xbox and sort things out fast as possible so things can go back to normal.

It not that simple. Microsoft was paying Motorola for the H.264/MPEG-4 technology patent per device. Then Google bought Motorola and significantly increased the price they wanted per device just from Microsoft. Microsoft thought this was unfair and wanted negotiate with Google to bring it down to what other are paying. Google refused to negotiate and Microsoft leaving it no option to either replace the technology or remove it, didn't pay. The case went straight to court.

Microsoft doesn't think the licensing change was simply "unfair," but that it violates the FRAND license Motorola agreed to when Motorola's patents were allowed to become part of the standard.

This not only affects Microsoft, but *every single other company anywhere* that licenses *any* patent on which a standard is based. If the case is not decided in Microsoft's favour, in the end, it gives companies free license to disregard any and all restrictions placed on them in exchange for becoming part of a standard.

Without FRAND licensing, we would not have most of the consumer hardware we have today. It would mean each Wireless Router would operate on an incompatible standard. No two cellular handsets would use the same UI or button layout. Every motherboard you purchase would have different expansion slot, and drive connector pinouts.

 

[DeepComet5581]

While the obvious shanking of the Videogames Industry and Worldwide Jobs market is nothing to get over-excited about, I would quite like to see this happen just to see the shitstorm that will result from all the beady-necked teenagers who will have to actually... GO OUTSIDE to entertain themselves.

Good Lord. These are the End Days.

hahahahaha

insulting people with stupid sterotypes

so fucking hilarious

It is, isn't it?

Every single one of my friends owns a Games Console (19-20 years old). It's not really a stereotype - It's fact.

 

[Vault101]

It is, isn't it?

Every single one of my friends owns a Games Console (19-20 years old). It's not really a stereotype - It's fact.

you shouldn't throw the word "fact" around like that

its anecdotal evidence.... doesn't prove crap

and no..its not funnny, its a dumb joke

 

[DeepComet5581]

It is, isn't it?

Every single one of my friends owns a Games Console (19-20 years old). It's not really a stereotype - It's fact.

you shouldn't throw the word "fact" around like that

its anecdotal evidence.... doesn't prove crap

and no..its not funnny, its a dumb joke

Who do you think this technology is aimed at in the first place?

Besides, my first post implied neither that every teenager owned a console, nor that every console owner were a teenager.

If you feel it was a joke, why give a sarcastic, childish reply?

Actually, don't bother. I'm not going down this road. I have better things to do.

 

[Vault101]

Who do you think this technology is aimed at in the first place?

what, as if being a socially retarded neckbeard is some kind of prerequisite?

[quote/]Besides, my first post implied neither that every teenager owned a console, nor that every console owner were a teenager.

If you feel it was a joke, why give a sarcastic, childish reply?
[/quote]

because I think its a tired stupid joke that was never funny in the first place

 

[Kinguendo]

I own a 360 and all that but... if they infringe upon patents then they shouldnt be punished as money is involved?! What the fuck is the point in patents then? I would see Microsoft burn and all 360s be recalled before I accept this kind of bullshit corporate hypocrisy.

You're guilty of murder. Since I said it, it must be true. We'll execute you now, then hold your trial in three weeks.

I mean, the evidence against you is substantial, so why should we bother going to trial BEFORE handing out a punishment?

Except that in reality there is absolutely no evidence of your claim... have you read the article? Do they say that it isnt patented? No, in fact it quite categorically states it does infringe upon patents... so what the hell are you talking about?

Have you read the article? Or been keeping up with the case for months now? This case hasn't even gone to trial yet, and the bulk of the evidence is actually on Microsoft's side.

In May, Judge David Shaw recommended to the International Trade Commission that the importation and sale of the Xbox 360 be banned in the United States because the console infringes upon patents held by Motorola.

Bish, bash, bosh. Case closed. Job done. Game over. Go to bed.

Interesting that the ruling isn't final until August, making this a preliminary decision. The ruling is, further, subject to numerous levels of appeal.

Yes, and as we all know... part of a ruling is deciding what to do about it... which is the whole "banning" thing. But clearly, the patent exists which is my point. So if this were murder, they have done the murder... they are just deciding upon a "punishment", wether it be an actual punishment that is completely deserved or some slap on the wrist bullshit is that can be debated and that isnt what we are debating. One side is saying "Ban it", the other side isnt saying "We didnt do it." they are saying "Well, cant we make a deal?".

So again, case closed.

 

[Danceofmasks]

As much as I think a ban is the right way to punish a patent offender, in this particular scenario it's probably not the best course of action.

No, I think the best way to solve this would be a sufficiently large payout that causes microsoft or any other large corporation, to want to avoid doing this shit ever again.
Even something so large that it means the 360 lost microsoft money over its entire lifespan.

'cos at the end of the day, the people who make games, or those who buy games, aren't at fault here.

 

[RvLeshrac]

I own a 360 and all that but... if they infringe upon patents then they shouldnt be punished as money is involved?! What the fuck is the point in patents then? I would see Microsoft burn and all 360s be recalled before I accept this kind of bullshit corporate hypocrisy.

You're guilty of murder. Since I said it, it must be true. We'll execute you now, then hold your trial in three weeks.

I mean, the evidence against you is substantial, so why should we bother going to trial BEFORE handing out a punishment?

Except that in reality there is absolutely no evidence of your claim... have you read the article? Do they say that it isnt patented? No, in fact it quite categorically states it does infringe upon patents... so what the hell are you talking about?

Have you read the article? Or been keeping up with the case for months now? This case hasn't even gone to trial yet, and the bulk of the evidence is actually on Microsoft's side.

In May, Judge David Shaw recommended to the International Trade Commission that the importation and sale of the Xbox 360 be banned in the United States because the console infringes upon patents held by Motorola.

Bish, bash, bosh. Case closed. Job done. Game over. Go to bed.

Interesting that the ruling isn't final until August, making this a preliminary decision. The ruling is, further, subject to numerous levels of appeal.

Yes, and as we all know... part of a ruling is deciding what to do about it... which is the whole "banning" thing. But clearly, the patent exists which is my point. So if this were murder, they have done the murder... they are just deciding upon a "punishment", wether it be an actual punishment that is completely deserved or some slap on the wrist bullshit is that can be debated and that isnt what we are debating. One side is saying "Ban it", the other side isnt saying "We didnt do it." they are saying "Well, cant we make a deal?".

So again, case closed.

The argument in the court is one of whether they killed someone, or whether he fell out the window. That's what will be decided in August. You're advocating for a punishment which may or may not fit the crime, to be meted out before the trial has concluded.

 

[Deshin]

This is not a case of Microsoft infringing on patented copyright, as many of the knee-jerkers around here seem to miss. The problem here is Motorola (and by extension Google) are being copyright trolls just because they think MS will pony up the money.

Here's a dumbed down version for people on here in the "rawr MS are evil, burn them" bandwagon. Pretend you build and design a new computer keyboard. When you're done you want to put a USB connector on it (like EVERYTHING electronic made in the last 10 years) so you do that and make an agreement to give whoever owns the USB patent (let's call him John) 10$ a day for using his port in your device. Then after selling your keyboard for years along comes Mike who buys John and rewrites the contract you already signed saying instead of 10$ a day it'll be 50$ a day instead and if you say no we'll take you to court and sue you and make your company come crashing down.

It's extortion is what it is.

 

[Deshin]

No, I think the best way to solve this would be a sufficiently large payout that causes microsoft or any other large corporation, to want to avoid doing this shit ever again.
Even something so large that it means the 360 lost microsoft money over its entire lifespan.

You want to punish Microsoft for being extorted from? They're not "infringing copyright", that's just a fun word to make people kneejerk. They had a deal to use the codec and then one day well into the console's life-cycle Motorola decides "fuck our deal, I want MOAR money than we agreed on, pay it or fuck you" and you say it's MS who deserves to lose out? Good job.