Escape to the Movies: Green Zone

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Nazrel

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May 16, 2008
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JWAN said:
Nazrel said:
internetzealot1 said:
I'll just leave this here
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/
Here's the importunate part:

Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said.
The really interesting part is that the CIA worked with Germany, France, and England for information concerning WMD's in Iraq before the 2003 invasion. They all stated, officially, that Saddam probably still had WMD's in his possession. The U.N was suspicious after Saddam kicked out the weapons inspectors and we found vehicles used for transporting chemical agents burned out with incendiary devices (probably with thermite) and half buried in sand dunes in within a few kilometers of SCUD missile platforms, with SCUD missles that had hollow cavities used for holding chemical agents.
It turns out the SCUD missiles themselves had a greater range than what the UN sanctioned them for making them fall into the WMD category even without having NBC agents. So did we find WMD's? Yes. Were they nuclear/chemical/biological? No. But the components were there.
We really wont ever know because whatever we found had been burned out.

Anyone here ever play with Legos? you know how all the pieces come in little bags and all you need is a little bit of time and determination to take those pieces, and put them together?
WMD = Weapon of Mass Destruction

Having missiles who's range exceeds the 150Km range limit, a sanction levied only on Iraq in U.N. resolution 687, does in no way count as Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Building a nuke is nothing close to Lego.It requires facilities, processing, know how that they lacked. Yellow cake by itself couldn't even be used to make a dirty bomb let alone a actual nuke.

Even back in the day, their nuke program was nowhere close to producing anything, regardless of what Saddam thought. The scientists weren't getting the results as quickly as Saddam wanted so they started falsifying their reports.

They were so happy when the facilities finally got blown up, they were off the hook.
 

SturmDolch

This Title is Ironic
May 17, 2009
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Just watched the movie yesterday, and I have to agree with MovieBob on most of these points, except for Syriana being better than anything since that was one of the worst movies I've seen. But what else could you expect from Soderbergh, the man behind such attrocities as Michael Clayton and The Informant!

Anyways, I digress. The one point that disturbed me most about this movie was the cinematography. Here is the anatomy of a typical action scene. Each item in the list lasts between 0 - 3 seconds, no more.

- Close up of Matt Damon's face
- Cut to close-up of gun
- Cut to long shot of enemies running around in dark
- Cut to flashes of light, with gunfire noises
- Cut to people running with shaky camera effects
- Cut to people on roofs shooting
- Repeat until scene is done, sometimes varying which scenes include shaky cameras, and the sequence of the scenes. Also, change the perspective randomly to mess with the mis-en-scene so people are as confused as possible.
 

The Cheezy One

Christian. Take that from me.
Dec 13, 2008
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Good one bob, i especially liked the arrogant american thing
although being british, i can be arrogant as well about being part of the greatest nation on earth ;)
 

Squigie

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Nov 20, 2009
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Raregolddragon said:
What the bloody hell!?

You used to watch Gargoyles Movie Bob?


I am a little taken back.
You're surprised that a nerd of his age group watched Gargoyles? I've got something else that will blow your mind: upper-middle class white kids love gangsta rap.
 

xDarc

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Feb 19, 2009
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chenry said:
Green Zone: Bad
The Hurt Locker: Overrated
The Kingdom: Good
Bourne: Boring

OH I GET IT, IT'S OPPOSITE DAY.
I agree. I also like the Bourne films and was a little let down with "The Kingdom." My gf wants to go see this movie and she never watches anything, so I'm gonna see it either way. Bob sounds like he has a political hair up his ass about something. I really don't care how the story is framed. I loved 80's movies for chrissakes, and still watch them- much to the exclusion of modern high falutin bullshit.

As an example- I'll gladly take the oldskool forumla: teens, drinking drugs and random larger-than-life slasher than any modern, up-it's-own ass, "Psychological thriller."

Movies are just meant to be fun. I was happy with Zombieland because it absolutely was an 80's movie in spirit. He made the connection to Rambo but then just said he's not fun to watch and the action scenes are meh without expounding on that. From the clips they look interesting enough.

I think movies like this will become more appreciated with time when the frame and political context becomes less of a big deal. I stopped giving a shit about anything outside of my bubble years ago, because nothing ever changes anyway.
 

CK76

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"Overrated" has never, and will never, be a legitimate critique of any work to me. It states nothing about the work, only how others view it. It's lazy and says nothing to me about the actual work. Was it (usually a numerical system) a 90 that has been called a 95? Or a 20 that has been called a 25 (by the mythical rating people that exist...somewhere I assume)

Anyways, on the US, do an experiment folks, watch the news, how much time do they spend talking about the other 95% of the world? Echo chamber of our self importance, thank goodness once again for the internet!
 

maninahat

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pearcinator said:
Your discussion about America's arrogance just reminded me so much of why I want them to make SEVEN ANCIENT WONDERS (7 DEADLY WONDERS in the US...yeah, cos that what sells there), an action book by Australian author Matthew Reilly, into a crazy over-the-top action movie!

Movie Bob, If you havnt read any books by Matthew Reilly, I recommend '7 Deadly Wonders' because it is a book that puts a small team of 'good guys' which come from independent smaller countries (led by an Australian) in a race to find the golden capstone from the Pyramid of Giza against the 'bad guys' which is...the US and Europe (three-way struggle).

Its a full-on, over-the-top action book which reads like Indiana Jones on crack! That is, lots of big booby-trap-filled chambers, car chases and shooting scenes. I want them to make a big-budget movie from it but the problem is that only America has the resources for what I think would require a budget of up to $200 Million and America doesnt want to make a movie that shows the dark-side of being the only superpower left in the world.
Matthew Reilly novels are so bad they're good. I'd only watch a film interpretation if they diliberately did it in the style of an 80s action movie. It wouldn't work any other way.

Everyone is getting on the "America is arrogant" train, but really the rest of the World is at least as arrogant. Most countries sit there, chuckling about how they are nowhere near as audaciously patriotic as that naive land where the eagles dare and the the mountains fly. It doesn't matter if you're French or British or Australian or whatever - there is always that a smug sense of superiority when it comes to judging Americans.
 

pearcinator

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maninahat said:
pearcinator said:
Your discussion about America's arrogance just reminded me so much of why I want them to make SEVEN ANCIENT WONDERS (7 DEADLY WONDERS in the US...yeah, cos that what sells there), an action book by Australian author Matthew Reilly, into a crazy over-the-top action movie!

Movie Bob, If you havnt read any books by Matthew Reilly, I recommend '7 Deadly Wonders' because it is a book that puts a small team of 'good guys' which come from independent smaller countries (led by an Australian) in a race to find the golden capstone from the Pyramid of Giza against the 'bad guys' which is...the US and Europe (three-way struggle).

Its a full-on, over-the-top action book which reads like Indiana Jones on crack! That is, lots of big booby-trap-filled chambers, car chases and shooting scenes. I want them to make a big-budget movie from it but the problem is that only America has the resources for what I think would require a budget of up to $200 Million and America doesnt want to make a movie that shows the dark-side of being the only superpower left in the world.
Matthew Reilly novels are so bad they're good. I'd only watch a film interpretation if they diliberately did it in the style of an 80s action movie. It wouldn't work any other way.

Everyone is getting on the "America is arrogant" train, but really the rest of the World is at least as arrogant. Most countries sit there, chuckling about how they are nowhere near as audaciously patriotic as that naive land where the eagles dare and the the mountains fly. It doesn't matter if you're French or British or Australian or whatever - there is always that a smug sense of superiority when it comes to judging Americans.
Exactly! I want them to bring back the action movies of the 80's! Transformers sucks balls! Action movies should be all about over-the-top stunts and scenes that make youu laugh because its so unbelievable! Michael Bay keeps trying to add comedy in his movies and thats what kills them (except for the fact that his action scenes are just poorly shot).

Wanna know the best modern action movies??? Die Hard 4, Rambo 4 and 2012. Why? Because they do what they are supposed to do, be entertaining and completely silly! The action movies that suck are the ones that take themselves seriously. Bring on Matthew Reilly movies!!
 

RestamSalucard

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(Insert name hear) said:
Shadow-Fox said:
Yeah, Jazz, Baseball and Corn Dogs . . .
I wouldn't miss any of 'em if they suddenly disappeared from the face of the earth.
That all you got?
and ice cream cones....
As I recall, Ice Cream was brought to Italy from Marco Polo (long before America was rediscovered by Columbus). The cones themselves were invented by England.

So, yeah. It's still just Corn Dogs.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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My thoughts are simply that we're churning out too much political trash media at the moment. I don't think we're going to see anything that seriously addresses this conflict for at least another ten or twenty years. Right now the media is very slanted, the left wing has power, and of course we're looking at a lot of productions based around that point of view being right. Interestingly, we have seen little, if anything, doing the same thing from the other side. In fact there has been great effort taken to prevent anything of a similar nature that might demonize Middle Easterners or make the conflict look like the right thing to do.

Arguably I feel when you look at things and take the left wing, and far right wing viewpoints you wind up with the truth being somewhere right in the middle.

That said, I don't think America is really arrogant. I think we're simply the world's dominant superpower, at a time when information spreads nearly instantly. To put things into perspective, a couple hundred years ago the Brits would have been sitting right where we are now. Everything that happened that mattered would indeed wind up revolving around them. The British Empire collapsed due to them pushing too far, too fast, and getting involved in too many fronts simultaneously. Just imagine how some of the things they were involved in would have been covered by today's liberal media. China, India, Africa, other European empires, The Brits had their fingers into all of them and what affected them was felt throughout the globe. Simply by pulling back when it couldn't maintain itself Britan caused a lot of things to happen. We simply maintain a similar position at the moment, albeit we are looking at a situation where we increasingly have rivals in the form of the Chinese and Russians.

Of course when it comes to things like this, the line between arrogance, and merely being realistic can be a fine one. Every nation dreams of being powerful, and relevent, and dealing with the dominant superpower one way or another can be sobering, as well as leading to resentment.

In the final equasion I think America's problem is in many cases that we aren't forceful and arrogant enough. We simply care too much about what other people might think (and fear being thought arrogant) that we don't act as strongly as we should when it's nessicary.

Such are my thoughts.


-


Also one minor point I will make (since I don't want to turn this into a major political rant) is that all of the liberal fantasies about "revealing the fact that the WMD stockpiles were a lie" miss the point that the US had no real intelligence assets at the time (we were idiots, and you can thank Clinton for it). We had no idea who attacked us at first. We didn't HAVE any deep and shadowdy CIA types pulling the strings. This is why there was so much discussion about rebuilding our intelligence assets and the like, and discussions about the possibility of a US "Intelligence Czar". People always seemed to assume that we had some movie-like super secret agency defending us, but the reality was that we didn't. We were almost totally dependant on foreign intelligence after 9/11 and were racing to rebuild our assets after they were gutted to save money. If we had the various shadowy "Cancer Man" types theorized in these movies 9/11 never would have happened in all likelyhood, with their presumed resources to make "The War On Terror" happen they would have had far more efficient methods of acheiving similar goals just by their existance. This is a "reality check" it would be nice if Hollywood got when it tries to make movies about this period. When we went looking for WMD at the time we had our advisors (like Britan) telling us that it was very bloody likely they were there, and that is a big part of WHY Britan and other close allies backed us, even against the UN.

It's also noteworthy that it was said (or so I remember) that the American People would probably never be aware of the full scope and/or results of this conflict. Oddly despite this, people seemed to get the impression that if we found WMD in The Middle East, the global press would be invited to a giant Jamboree to check them out first hand. Bush or someone would parade them around as a sort of "I was right" sign because of the politics.

The truth is we have no idea if they were found or not, just that our goverment currently says we didn't, which is what they would have said otherwise. Consider that great effort is made to hide stuff like that and ensure that nobody knows where WMD is at any given time. This is what things like "MX" type programs (placing ICBMS on trains that are always moving and not even the President knows where they are for sure) are all about. Heck, nobody confirms or denies what they actually have at any given moment. There was like 0% chance that for political justification someone was going to let the world know "hey you guys, we've got megatons of Iraqi nuclear weapons sitting right here, come see!". Rather if they were found they would have been quietly disappeared and never revealed. Not to mention what other deals might be involved since someone had to make/sell these things which was an issue to begin with... and well... as soon as they show them off to the world press, that means that someone was going to be in the hot seat. Let's say it was a nation like France (which was illrgally trading through oil for food), or China, or any one of a number of other nations... simply by outing that your looking at an international charlie foxtrot that has to be dealt with.

This got longer than I intended. The point being that the entire WMD angle pursued in books and movies is absolutly absurd, as are conspiricy theories involving intelligence assets that at the time were cut to the bone. Clinton was a big believer that we didn't NEED agents and spies and such because we had Satellites. People pointed out at the time that he was stupid because if you didn't have a man on the ground, you didn't have anything, but he didn't go for that. The bottom line is if we had Mr. "Secret Spy Lord Guy" with all this info and resources we wouldn't have had politicians publically going "OMG! who attacked us" and "OMG! we need to rebuild the CIA into a real force!"
 

FFKonoko

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I'm not sure if Bob is saying that Bourne is bad, so much that he got tired of Bourne. As in, its the same damn movie 3 times and it gets progressively more strained trying to keep the briarpatch going. Its not everyones thing, and some of the people who really did enjoy the first one, were kinda seeing the mold marks from the repetition by the third one. Which detracts from the enjoyment a little.

I think America's problem is in many cases that we aren't forceful and arrogant enough. We simply care too much about what other people might think (and fear being thought arrogant) that we don't act as strongly as we should when it's nessicary.
Your post has damn good points, but I couldn't help but find that little bit right there terrifying. :c
 

BearMcCaughan

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Apr 24, 2009
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My god you recommended 'Daybreakers' saying it was a nerdgasm n all this when it was one of the worst films I've ever seen.

Perhaps you didn't understand the setting of this film; 3-4 weeks into the war, the story is only focusing on Miller because I doubt a whole lot of US WMD investigators were racing into Iraq to find WMDs seeing as the country was still a mess and I'm sure there were other units doing the exact same thing Miller was but his story is the most interesting. It's not him vs. THE DEVIL as you're basically saying. He was becoming interested in his proper job and goals of the war rather than most other soldiers who just do as their told. You know, "rising above the call of duty".

And oh my christ, the Hurt locker?! I watched green zone on friday and hurt locker last night, and it was bollocks. Absolute crap. Totally unrealistic no military accuracy whatsoever (3 man unit travels Iraq ALONE disarming IEDs with no communication with their command, no backup then they meet the SAS IN THE DESERT AND THEY SAVE THE DAY?! WHAT!)

ARRRHH!!!
 

Falseprophet

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Jan 13, 2009
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webchameleon said:
Excellent review, MovieBob.

Allow me to let all you stinky foreigners ;) in on a little American secret: NOBODY thinks Saddam had nukes anymore. I'm placing bets it was an excuse by Bush and co. to bury ourselves in filth while we clean the Augean Stables of the new millennium for the next decade. Nobody's eyes have been opened. It was a brash move by an angry man in power against a dictator who'd tried it before. There's just no way Congress would have approved a military adventure under the proposition: "We want to fly half-way across the world to destroy--once and for all--an ideology that is almost mainstream with the civilian populace."
Anyone who followed the news from anywhere other than the mainstream American sources knew that the Bush administration was gunning for a war one way or another. They wouldn't let the inspectors finish their job, and when some of their strongest allies--nations who rallied to their side without hesitation after the 9/11 attacks, and who themselves knew the negative consequences of military imperialism from experience--wouldn't support their stupidly blind rush to war for no reason, they brought out that stupid "with us or against us rhetoric" when Iraq had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda (at the time--the invasion and occupation has since made it a terrorist stronghold). But if you had read up on the Project for a New American Century at the time and noted half its members were in the Bush cabinet, the rationale for war was pretty clear.

So I find the premise of this film insulting. There was no "conspiracy" to attack Iraq. The PNAC-stuffed government wanted a war, the mass media was more than happy to give it to them, the military was overconfident after initial successes in Afghanistan, any dissent even on rational grounds was immediately denounced as unpatriotic or even treasonous, and the skilled people in the State Department and other parts of government who might have actually known what they were doing during the occupation were marginalized by the political climate and instead, culturally-ignorant neo-conservative ideologues were sent to rebuild Iraq with unicorns and rainbows. But that'd be complicated to explain, right? So let's have a hero in fatigues and a villain in a suit represent the intricacies of geopolitics.

fullbleed said:
Bourne was good alright and the first one, which also happens to be the best one, wasn't even directed by Paul Greengrass it was directed by Doug Liman. Frankly I'd take Greengrass shakey cam over Zach Snyder slow-mo.
Shaky-cam and gratuitous use of CGI is the reason all modern action movies suck.
 

(Insert name hear)

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Jan 22, 2009
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RestamSalucard said:
(Insert name hear) said:
Shadow-Fox said:
Yeah, Jazz, Baseball and Corn Dogs . . .
I wouldn't miss any of 'em if they suddenly disappeared from the face of the earth.
That all you got?
and ice cream cones....
As I recall, Ice Cream was brought to Italy from Marco Polo (long before America was rediscovered by Columbus). The cones themselves were invented by England.

So, yeah. It's still just Corn Dogs.
Its better than nothing.
 

LazyAza

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May 28, 2008
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So this is one of those kinds of movies I really don't like, too simple to be interesting, not crazy enough to be entertaining.
Lame. Loved all the stuff about America, its all so true. lol