Escape to the Movies: Star Trek: Into Darkness
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Sigh...finally saw it.
I LIKED the last Star Trek. How much? I like it enough to put it UP there. One of the best in my eyes. This isn't saying THAT much, I don't think it was better than the wrath of khan, or the Undiscovered Country, but still...UP there, like 5th best maybe, maybe a little higher.
I can say this partially because some Star Trek movies are god awful bad. Generations, Star Trek V, and Insurrection for example, all suck as movies, and are even worse as Star Trek movies.
I went and saw this new one wanting to tell Bob he was wrong. I wanted to go in and come out saying "See? Your all freaking out over nothing! I mean, come on, Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan!"
Sigh...Bob is right. Bob is even right about...some of...why. Khan is badly done, he gets hardly any backstory. Benedict Cumberbatch plays him very very very well, but that just means he delivers a few quotable lines and stands in front of a camera menacingly a few times. NOTHING is given to his back story. NOTHING is given to anything different that may have happened to him in this new reality.(other than being discovered a bit early due to investigations of the last movie) They sum his character up by having old Spock say "He's a badass" to young Spock. That's kind of it.
The blonde girl is useless. Why is she here? She DOES NOTHING! The story is pandering at best, and insulting at worst, and it all ends in the worst travesty of all.
Near the end of the movie, Khan thinks his crew has been killed. He then decides to get revenge, but having had his ship damaged he doesn't have many options, and the enterprise is already damaged, and about to burn up in Earth's atmosphere, so he sets a course for "Starfleet Headquarters". At this point we get a bunch of panning view of the head quarters that don't show off San Fransisco(where Starfleet Headquarters is supposed to be) but looks like an islandish city.
You then hear the burning exhaust of Khan's crashing ship as it comes in to wreck headquarters, with sounds that sound like they came right out of the original 9/11 video...
Yup, that's right, and before you suggest I'm just imagining this there is a nice little blurb in the credits dedicating the movie to the victims of 9/11.
Don't need this shit, J.J.! Don't need your pandering fan-service filled mess giving me a propaganda message on 9/11. I came here to watch Sci-Fi and you haven't given me anything remotely RESEMBLING Sci-Fi. At best this may have been a forgettable popcorn movie that was made a little worse by deserving to be better. It didn't manage that since it felt the need to preach to me. I'm pissed again, this always happens around the time I think J.J. might be half decent at making stuff, and then he proves me SSOOOO wrong. I'm done.
I LIKED the last Star Trek. How much? I like it enough to put it UP there. One of the best in my eyes. This isn't saying THAT much, I don't think it was better than the wrath of khan, or the Undiscovered Country, but still...UP there, like 5th best maybe, maybe a little higher.
I can say this partially because some Star Trek movies are god awful bad. Generations, Star Trek V, and Insurrection for example, all suck as movies, and are even worse as Star Trek movies.
I went and saw this new one wanting to tell Bob he was wrong. I wanted to go in and come out saying "See? Your all freaking out over nothing! I mean, come on, Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan!"
Sigh...Bob is right. Bob is even right about...some of...why. Khan is badly done, he gets hardly any backstory. Benedict Cumberbatch plays him very very very well, but that just means he delivers a few quotable lines and stands in front of a camera menacingly a few times. NOTHING is given to his back story. NOTHING is given to anything different that may have happened to him in this new reality.(other than being discovered a bit early due to investigations of the last movie) They sum his character up by having old Spock say "He's a badass" to young Spock. That's kind of it.
The blonde girl is useless. Why is she here? She DOES NOTHING! The story is pandering at best, and insulting at worst, and it all ends in the worst travesty of all.
Near the end of the movie, Khan thinks his crew has been killed. He then decides to get revenge, but having had his ship damaged he doesn't have many options, and the enterprise is already damaged, and about to burn up in Earth's atmosphere, so he sets a course for "Starfleet Headquarters". At this point we get a bunch of panning view of the head quarters that don't show off San Fransisco(where Starfleet Headquarters is supposed to be) but looks like an islandish city.
You then hear the burning exhaust of Khan's crashing ship as it comes in to wreck headquarters, with sounds that sound like they came right out of the original 9/11 video...
Yup, that's right, and before you suggest I'm just imagining this there is a nice little blurb in the credits dedicating the movie to the victims of 9/11.
Don't need this shit, J.J.! Don't need your pandering fan-service filled mess giving me a propaganda message on 9/11. I came here to watch Sci-Fi and you haven't given me anything remotely RESEMBLING Sci-Fi. At best this may have been a forgettable popcorn movie that was made a little worse by deserving to be better. It didn't manage that since it felt the need to preach to me. I'm pissed again, this always happens around the time I think J.J. might be half decent at making stuff, and then he proves me SSOOOO wrong. I'm done.
Ok so Abrams doesn't 'get' Star Trek, but as he is a big star wars fan here's hoping he 'gets' star wars and will use this knowledge to create something special. I'm no Trek fan, so I enjoyed these last two Trek films for what they are, passable entertainment, but Star Wars Episode VII needs to be more than just passable entertainment to not disappoint me as a fan of Star Wars and I'll be honest, I'm a little worried about the chances to that looking at these two most recent Trek films. As I said, I think they're ok, decent movies, but they're not great and if Ep 7 is anything less than great it will be a disappointment.
And this is why I choose to go see the movie first than watch MovieBob's review. I didn't want another's views to skew my enjoyment of a movie since I am naturally, easily impressionable. That said, just getting back watching the film...I enjoyed it greatly, and MovieBob's critique will not affect my mindset that this is overall a much more enjoyable ride than the 1st reboot movie was. Of course this is just me...I'm not a film critic, which means I have the luxury of enjoying movies whilst having it's flaws rush by over my head...not because I am stupid, but because I have choose not to study the aspects of what makes a great movie great. I am not saying MovieBob is wrong in any respect, but what I am saying that one man's critique doesn't mean the movie is bad....oh the movie is bad to him....but I encourage people to form their own opinions before listening to another's.
That said...my opinion of the movie? It was damn good. An entertaining romp of a sci-fi flick with interesting characters, an interesting villain, and an enjoyable plot. And that event at the end where Bob says it was stupid...I liked it. Since it is technically an alternate universe, it would make sense that something like that would happen, albeit in a different way. And let's be honest here....if they were going to do that in the first place...there were ALOT more worse ways to screw that scene up...and the one playing Spock performed admirably. Well...that's my opinion, take it as it is.
That said...my opinion of the movie? It was damn good. An entertaining romp of a sci-fi flick with interesting characters, an interesting villain, and an enjoyable plot. And that event at the end where Bob says it was stupid...I liked it. Since it is technically an alternate universe, it would make sense that something like that would happen, albeit in a different way. And let's be honest here....if they were going to do that in the first place...there were ALOT more worse ways to screw that scene up...and the one playing Spock performed admirably. Well...that's my opinion, take it as it is.
Wow. Such a butt-hurting review.
I grew up on the Star Trek movies and the tv shows. I rewatched Wrath of Khan after seeing Into Darkness. Overall, I'd say they average out to about the same quality. Lack of character development? Not really. Kirk learned to not be as much of a jackass just because he's got to be the youngest captain in Starfleet, and Spock's character was well-played. The references and redoing just came across as exploring a "what-if" scenario. Nothing wrong with that. This movie isn't anywhere near the best I've seen, but I'm now looking forward to seeing what Abrams can do with the Star Wars sequels.
And I'm surprised and disappointed that you would be offended about the parallel between the plot and the Second Gulf War. Given that that damn war has defined a generation, I'd think you'd be more appreciative of it being used as an inspiration. And it made sense, provided that you accept that there are people in power who take their duty seriously to the point of insanity. And as for the villain who plans to be captured, yes it's an obvious plot device. What's interesting to watch, however, is how the plot unfolds.
Overall, I shake my head in disapproval and disappointment, Bob. You sounded just like one of those whining fanboys who can't get over the Star Wars prequels. You don't have to like the mystery box, but it seems to me that you went in expecting to hate this movie just because it's a reimagining of your childhood. That kind of attitude is what makes people hate critics.
Oh, and personally, I quite liked the Klingons' new look and attire. It was still pretty faithful to the original garments, but it made more sense and was less preposterous. After all, more than a few warrior cultures on Earth designed their headgear to make them look monstrous. Why wouldn't the Klingons?
I grew up on the Star Trek movies and the tv shows. I rewatched Wrath of Khan after seeing Into Darkness. Overall, I'd say they average out to about the same quality. Lack of character development? Not really. Kirk learned to not be as much of a jackass just because he's got to be the youngest captain in Starfleet, and Spock's character was well-played. The references and redoing just came across as exploring a "what-if" scenario. Nothing wrong with that. This movie isn't anywhere near the best I've seen, but I'm now looking forward to seeing what Abrams can do with the Star Wars sequels.
And I'm surprised and disappointed that you would be offended about the parallel between the plot and the Second Gulf War. Given that that damn war has defined a generation, I'd think you'd be more appreciative of it being used as an inspiration. And it made sense, provided that you accept that there are people in power who take their duty seriously to the point of insanity. And as for the villain who plans to be captured, yes it's an obvious plot device. What's interesting to watch, however, is how the plot unfolds.
Overall, I shake my head in disapproval and disappointment, Bob. You sounded just like one of those whining fanboys who can't get over the Star Wars prequels. You don't have to like the mystery box, but it seems to me that you went in expecting to hate this movie just because it's a reimagining of your childhood. That kind of attitude is what makes people hate critics.
Oh, and personally, I quite liked the Klingons' new look and attire. It was still pretty faithful to the original garments, but it made more sense and was less preposterous. After all, more than a few warrior cultures on Earth designed their headgear to make them look monstrous. Why wouldn't the Klingons?
In some ways your right. I do have a few points though:templar1138a said:
1. Khan actually develops a nasty plan in the original, and very quickly. Due to a mistake of which planet they are going down on, two members of starfleet(One being Chekhov) get captured by Khan and forced into playing into his schemes. He then calls Kirk out, and grabs a weapon powerful enough to wipe out life on an entire planet(by creating new life on the planet, and giving him and his people a new home). It is at that point that Khan has made himself into an evil mastermind that has to be dealt with. When Kirk DOES show up, he also manages to convince him to go down to a planetoid that should keep Kirk stuck as Khan takes out his precious ship. He uses a large amount of subterfuge the whole way, and only dies to his passion(putting up a pretty decent fight right until the end.)
In comparison, Khan in the new movie saves a little girl with his blood to convince a guy to blow up a building(a building called the archives which does not AT ALL parable the twin towers)and then gets in a small ship and shoots up the leadership. He then teleports away to territory that they can't easily get to. That is the pinnacle of his villainy and it's over in a few seconds. After that he is an obviously evil ally who falls into everyone's beat. He falls for every trick thrown at him, and is too incompetent to deal with any of them for any length of time. The only thing really scary about him is his apparent ability to squeeze people's heads off.
2. Both movies are the pilots for new characters. Sure, they kill David in the next film, and Saavik never really does much after Wrath of Khan, but they do do things in the movie they appear in. They are useful, and actually serve a purpose to the story. In this movie we get to meet the daughter of the admiral, and she is almost COMPLETELY useless. She shows how to open a torpedo, but needs the doctor to do it. She gets to disarm one bomb, and then every scene after she is COMPLETELY useless. She doesn't fit, she feels like some scrappy sidekick thrown in because someone is her dad.
3. The holes in the plot of this one are big enough to drive planes through. Why does Khan show up now? Why is allowing indiginous people a big enough crime to lose your spot as captain(when they did it countless episodes of the original series and on). They have never suggested that such regulations are ship captain loss level offences, but rather something they wouldn't be pleased about. This movie uses a lot of this as filler to continue a story that isn't going anywhere.
4. We don't get any "because I say so" moments in Wrath of Khan, anything that appears that way is given visual aid and explanation(such as explaining the "Genesis" project.) while in this marvelous movie we get several instances of it. We get Old Spock telling us how much of a badass Khan is rather than a huge amount of showing, or even having Khan explain it himself. Nope, Spock gets to TELL us he's scawy. This also occurs several times with the evil admiral.
My problem with this movie has nothing to do with whether or not it's cheesy. I don't care if it's cheesy, and Wrath of Khan is INCREDIBLY cheesy. There is a lot to forgive in the old one before you can truly enjoy it, but there is even more in this one. This one feels badly made, with tricks to fill time used every five seconds. Lots of close ups of Khans sneer, lots of telling instead of doing, lots of dismissable science that doesn't work in a true sci-fi story(like, how the hell does Khan's blood bring Kirk back after he's been dead for over 5 minutes. Go look up how quickly the brain loses it's ABILITY to function after death.)
But worse than all of that, we have to get preached to about 9/11 in a really bad mirror of current politics. Robocop is trying to "force a war" with the backwards Klingon insurgence using a dangerous relic from our past. When that relic feels like betrayal is around the corner he blows up a monument that doesn't serve a strategic purpose(it is discovered it DOES have strategic purpose, but that leads even more into his little parable here) but will amount to a lot of death. This all comes to a close as they match sound files to SOUND like 9/11 as Khan crashes a large flying vehicle into an island based city with tons of people. We even get a cheesy dedication to the 9/11 events in the credits. It was oozing with this strange 9/11 truther propaganda nonsense, which is either largely ignored, or dismissed by it's audience as something that SHOULDN'T BE IN A STAR TREK movie. Frankly, this was the thing that angered me the most. Up until I noticed that little aspect of the movie, I could have walked away calling it forgettable.
Bob makes a lot of good points in describing the flaws in this movie. The funny thing is... I still prefer this one over the one that came before it. The pacing issues weren't as bad, the setpieces weren't quite as blatantly shoehorned in, (for the most part) the actions scenes were pretty cool, and it had some genuinely funny and touching moments in it. (Even with the repeated cheesy, "you can tell this is a touching moment by the tear streaming down my face, even though there's no change in my expression" moments) 
I can see how the "bad imitation of lame, pandering fanservice" as Bob puts it, could irritate people, but I kind of saw it in the light of what I think Abrams intended it, that I should laugh along with it. (And yeah, saying "it's not as bad" isn't much of a compliment, but I still found this one much more watchable than the one that came before it)
The thing that did bug me about it was the glaring plotholes, which there are quite a few of, but I'll just draw attention to one or two...
And did anyone else notice that they had a habit of breaking radio silence a lot when they really shouldn't? Like Sulu calling Harrison on the Klingon homeworld, announcing the presence of the Enterprise despite the fact that this is supposed to be a secret, covert mission that they don't want the Klingons to know about? (Seriously, wouldn't the Klingons pick up that call too? Why do they act like the Klingons still shouldn't know they're there?) Or calling Starfleet despite the fact that this is supposed to officially not be a Starfleet mission?
Meh... despite all this, though, I really wasn't all *that* bothered by this movie; I might even see it again some day... as long as I can do so for free.
I can see how the "bad imitation of lame, pandering fanservice" as Bob puts it, could irritate people, but I kind of saw it in the light of what I think Abrams intended it, that I should laugh along with it. (And yeah, saying "it's not as bad" isn't much of a compliment, but I still found this one much more watchable than the one that came before it)The thing that did bug me about it was the glaring plotholes, which there are quite a few of, but I'll just draw attention to one or two...
Why were Khan's people inside the torpedoes? It doesn't make any sense!
I guess Khan hid them inside there while he was developing the weapons because he anticipated that Admiral Marcus would betray him, but then he says later that he bombed the Starfleet archives and shot up their headquarters because he believed that Starfleet had already killed his people. Then he acts like he knew all along that his crew were inside the torpedoes and it was somehow part of his plan? What the hell? Did he know that his people were there or not? Did he really somehow expect and anticipate that the Enterprise would follow him to Kronos and bring all 72 of the torpedoes with his crew still inside them?
The only way I can make any kind of sense of it is if Admiral Marcus really had no idea that Khan's crew were inside the torpedoes and Khan secretly hoped that Marcus would come after him, intending to use the torpedoes against him and unwittingly bring Khan's crew to him... Okay... except that when Kirk tells Marcus that he has Khan's crew, frozen inside the torpedoes, Marcus has no reaction to this news, not even so much as batting an eyelash. So he *knew* that Khan's crew were inside the torpedoes but he sent them along anyway? What the friggin' hell? If Marcus really wanted Khan and his crew dead, he could have killed them when he had them at his mercy, or he could have used them as bargaining chips to lure Khan back. Instead, he sends his enemy's crew out to meet his enemy. That's like the worst possible tactical decision he could make!
Khan's plan doesn't make any sense!
Marcus' plan doesn't make any sense!
The whole plot of this movie falls apart as soon as you try to apply any kind of logic to it!
I guess Khan hid them inside there while he was developing the weapons because he anticipated that Admiral Marcus would betray him, but then he says later that he bombed the Starfleet archives and shot up their headquarters because he believed that Starfleet had already killed his people. Then he acts like he knew all along that his crew were inside the torpedoes and it was somehow part of his plan? What the hell? Did he know that his people were there or not? Did he really somehow expect and anticipate that the Enterprise would follow him to Kronos and bring all 72 of the torpedoes with his crew still inside them?
The only way I can make any kind of sense of it is if Admiral Marcus really had no idea that Khan's crew were inside the torpedoes and Khan secretly hoped that Marcus would come after him, intending to use the torpedoes against him and unwittingly bring Khan's crew to him... Okay... except that when Kirk tells Marcus that he has Khan's crew, frozen inside the torpedoes, Marcus has no reaction to this news, not even so much as batting an eyelash. So he *knew* that Khan's crew were inside the torpedoes but he sent them along anyway? What the friggin' hell? If Marcus really wanted Khan and his crew dead, he could have killed them when he had them at his mercy, or he could have used them as bargaining chips to lure Khan back. Instead, he sends his enemy's crew out to meet his enemy. That's like the worst possible tactical decision he could make!
Khan's plan doesn't make any sense!
Marcus' plan doesn't make any sense!
The whole plot of this movie falls apart as soon as you try to apply any kind of logic to it!
And did anyone else notice that they had a habit of breaking radio silence a lot when they really shouldn't? Like Sulu calling Harrison on the Klingon homeworld, announcing the presence of the Enterprise despite the fact that this is supposed to be a secret, covert mission that they don't want the Klingons to know about? (Seriously, wouldn't the Klingons pick up that call too? Why do they act like the Klingons still shouldn't know they're there?) Or calling Starfleet despite the fact that this is supposed to officially not be a Starfleet mission?
Kirk talking to Scotty when he's secretly on the enemy ship? Surely Marcus should have detected that!
Meh... despite all this, though, I really wasn't all *that* bothered by this movie; I might even see it again some day... as long as I can do so for free.
Correction: She isn't completely useless. She undresses to her underwear for two seconds. This gives the development team the excuse to use that scene in all the trailers. It's a very important part of marketing the movie and Zoë had already done it in the previous one so she couldn't do it again.ShadowHamster said:
I have to say, apart from MAYBE the sound effect, i completely missed the 9/11 comparison the movie creates. And now that its been brought to my attention, i don't even think its honestly intended. When faced with certain defeat, when does the villain ever not try to destroy as much of the hero or what they stand for as possible?
After the surprisingly good first movie I was hoping they would go to interesting places and come up with some fun new ideas for the sequel. Instead it seems their just doing 'Ultimate Star Trek'.
Not that an Ultimate Universe would be a bad thing, but its not a good one either. A good one takes the old stuff and mixes it together in a new and interesting way aka 'The Ultimates' or IDWs ninja Turtles, a bad one just put people in trench coats to make them so much more 'cool', see 'Ultimate X-Men'. There was nothing wrong with the Next Generations klingons so why the hell did they completely change them just so they can look more 'Extreeeeeeeeeem'.
Not that an Ultimate Universe would be a bad thing, but its not a good one either. A good one takes the old stuff and mixes it together in a new and interesting way aka 'The Ultimates' or IDWs ninja Turtles, a bad one just put people in trench coats to make them so much more 'cool', see 'Ultimate X-Men'. There was nothing wrong with the Next Generations klingons so why the hell did they completely change them just so they can look more 'Extreeeeeeeeeem'.
I was going to watch this review until I saw that is was "spoiler filled" will someone let me know if MovieBob is just having another one of his nerd manbaby tantrums again and caring more about the baggage from a nostalgic series than impartially reviewing a movie. Or would it be absurd to assume that he actually did his job? The Escapist needs to find better movie reviewers than Bob Chipman and Jim Sterling.
I personally thought the movie was better than the original (as in the last new Star Trek). It didn't have serious plot holes such as a super massive black hole now near Sol or the fact that the same people who invented warp theory have no actual comprehension of how it works. Space moves not the ship? Wow no shit even Futurama managed to figure that one out.
Spock did steal the show on this one and while I was awaiting that inevitable quote that any Star Trek fan would know it made me feel guilty about wanting it at all. No its not Star Trek as we used to know it, but its still a decent movie. Thats more than you usually get these days. Oh and I will never get tired of watching the Enterprise go into warp. The warp trails were just sick.
Django Unchained uses dynamite throughout the entire movie, but the movie took place before dynamite was invented... oops.
Spock did steal the show on this one and while I was awaiting that inevitable quote that any Star Trek fan would know it made me feel guilty about wanting it at all. No its not Star Trek as we used to know it, but its still a decent movie. Thats more than you usually get these days. Oh and I will never get tired of watching the Enterprise go into warp. The warp trails were just sick.
Django Unchained uses dynamite throughout the entire movie, but the movie took place before dynamite was invented... oops.
The spoiler that Bob mentions will mean nothing to anyone who isn't familiar with Star Trek lore and people who are familiar with it will see it coming anyway. (At least I did) Either way, you probably aren't missing much by seeing the spoiler and he doesn't mention it until halfway through the video. (He puts a spoiler warning sign on the screen just before he says it) And yes, as you may have guessed, his rant about the movie is mainly based on comparisons to the original series.mattawbrown said:
But...but...
Anyway, I haven't watched the film but the plot twist was something you could see coming from almost 31 light-years away. Nevertheless, I am going to watch the film and see what Benedick Cucumberinasnatch has to offer.
On another note: are there any plans about making a Star Trek television show again any time soon? I know that Enterprise got shot down before it got (really) good, but maybe CBS (I still assume they have the rights to it) wants to cater to the real fans and bring something TNG worthy on to the small screen. Okay, and now I'm going to stop dreaming.
Klingons have been altered to look like Orcs... WHAT. THE. HELL. WERE. THEY. THINKING?!?
Anyway, I haven't watched the film but the plot twist was something you could see coming from almost 31 light-years away. Nevertheless, I am going to watch the film and see what Benedick Cucumberinasnatch has to offer.
On another note: are there any plans about making a Star Trek television show again any time soon? I know that Enterprise got shot down before it got (really) good, but maybe CBS (I still assume they have the rights to it) wants to cater to the real fans and bring something TNG worthy on to the small screen. Okay, and now I'm going to stop dreaming.
Khan's people were inside the torpedoes so that they'd be placed on board the Vengeance. Which Khan, rather obviously, planned to steal.Tormuse said:
It makes perfect sense; hide his crew in the weapons, and steal the ship once it was completed. He got caught doing the former though, and had to abandon his shot at the latter.
Couple that with the fact that apparently Khan's big blind spot is assuming other people are as ruthless as he is, and it's not particularly a surprise when he assumes that the Admiral promptly shot his crew into the nearest convenient planetoid. When Sulu issues threats regarding long-range torpedoes, that's why Khan asks how many; to confirm if these are, in fact, the original weapons he'd placed his crew in.
Why Marcus uses the torpedoes and doesn't strip the crew out is also fairly simple; he didn't have any other weapons capable of doing the job, hadn't managed to produce more torpedoes yet, and didn't want to risk something catastrophic happening to the weapons by attempting to remove the frozen crew from them.
Shakespeare was and is known as the greatest author of the English speaking era, and the south park writing continues to be a mast-head for it's own style of comedy. Both used anti-Semitic prose and situations to further extend a plot, reveal character, or provide conflict.Blood Brain Barrier said:
you, on the other hand, are a prejudiced internet-dwelling cretin whose opinions are utterly meaningless.
and for the record, I'm not Jewish. I just find it hilarious that someone as insignificant as you actually tried to compare themselves to the likes of Shakespeare and South park.
To MovieBob, I know you probably don't read these, nor do you care, but I just want to send my deepest sympathies toward you because you lost a good chunk of your credibility as a critic with this one.
now, for the record:
NO, I am not a Trekkie
NO, I am not a J.J. Abrams fan.
NO, I do not disagree with you solely because I enjoyed it and you didn't.
but the fact that you said that you enjoyed Fast and Furious 6 and disliked this film... I'm sorry, but that just screams not only hypocrisy but crappy judgement as well.
You yourself have said on multiple occasions that you hate when people say that the just want to "turn their brain off" when they see a film, and that's what you evidently have done with FF6. You knew it was goofy and dumb but you made yourself enjoyed it anyway by not letting the bad outweigh the good.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you went into this film WANTING it to be bad because you know, as I do, that J.J. Abrams is the WRONG person for these films. And instead of looking at it from a neutral, open mind, you were ready to identify everything that was wrong about it instead of accepting the good parts for what they are.
That's the behavior of a Star Wars fan hating on Phantom Menace, wouldn't you say?
Give it the credit where it's due:
The action scenes were well choreographed and stunningly executed. Benedict Cumberbatch's character choices, while not guided properly, WERE great to watch. The film was funny where it needed to be, moving (though in some places cheesy) in the quiet "emotional" spots, and balanced the action and character arcs well. It was also paced well, with the action sequences and dialogue drama pieces never running too long or overshadowing the other.
And YES, there were character arcs. Kirk willingly makes the sacrifice play even though in the first film he believes that there is "no such thing as a no-win situation", and Spock does his (typical) emotional come-around, only this time he actually uses his emotion FOR his actions rather than just using them to understand them.
The film was misguided and J.J. Abrams has no right to take on these films since he was never a Trek fan. But for all it's flaws the film was overall a good film. Not the greatest, and certainly not an apt re-tread of the Kahn storyline, but a good movie on it's own merit.
So re-watch your own Phantom Menace retrospective and take a leaf out of your own freaking book.
Sincerely,
A non-trekkie fan.
now, for the record:
NO, I am not a Trekkie
NO, I am not a J.J. Abrams fan.
NO, I do not disagree with you solely because I enjoyed it and you didn't.
but the fact that you said that you enjoyed Fast and Furious 6 and disliked this film... I'm sorry, but that just screams not only hypocrisy but crappy judgement as well.
You yourself have said on multiple occasions that you hate when people say that the just want to "turn their brain off" when they see a film, and that's what you evidently have done with FF6. You knew it was goofy and dumb but you made yourself enjoyed it anyway by not letting the bad outweigh the good.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like you went into this film WANTING it to be bad because you know, as I do, that J.J. Abrams is the WRONG person for these films. And instead of looking at it from a neutral, open mind, you were ready to identify everything that was wrong about it instead of accepting the good parts for what they are.
That's the behavior of a Star Wars fan hating on Phantom Menace, wouldn't you say?
Give it the credit where it's due:
The action scenes were well choreographed and stunningly executed. Benedict Cumberbatch's character choices, while not guided properly, WERE great to watch. The film was funny where it needed to be, moving (though in some places cheesy) in the quiet "emotional" spots, and balanced the action and character arcs well. It was also paced well, with the action sequences and dialogue drama pieces never running too long or overshadowing the other.
And YES, there were character arcs. Kirk willingly makes the sacrifice play even though in the first film he believes that there is "no such thing as a no-win situation", and Spock does his (typical) emotional come-around, only this time he actually uses his emotion FOR his actions rather than just using them to understand them.
The film was misguided and J.J. Abrams has no right to take on these films since he was never a Trek fan. But for all it's flaws the film was overall a good film. Not the greatest, and certainly not an apt re-tread of the Kahn storyline, but a good movie on it's own merit.
So re-watch your own Phantom Menace retrospective and take a leaf out of your own freaking book.
Sincerely,
A non-trekkie fan.
I'm glad you aren't a teacher or anything. I wouldn't want a student of yours to get their math test back and find you have written "who do you think you are? Einstein?" after using one of his equations, and failing him for doing so.Mr0llivand3r said:
So I avoided many of the reviews and previews because I like to go into a movie, I know I am going to see with open eyes. I don't think BOB does that. It seems he went it wanting to hate this movie. As he does with others. Not that he or the escapist care, but the criticality of this site is getting overwhelming. You spend 5 minutes tearing this movie up and then 10 seconds saying ok the action, visuals, sound and even some of the acting is good. Oh wow, um sounds like that's a good portion of the movie. We also get it, you don't like Chris Pine, I thought he did a good job. I have seen all the Star Trek Movies and TOS and TNG series multiple times. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see the plot twist happening. I must be dumb. And guess what that movie is 30 years old! Get over yourself with it.
With that said. I can't imagine even using one of Bob's reviews to decide whether I want to see a movie. Critic doesn't mean you have to find bad. Yahtzee does it as part of his character, and he does it humorously. You are not him..
With that said. I can't imagine even using one of Bob's reviews to decide whether I want to see a movie. Critic doesn't mean you have to find bad. Yahtzee does it as part of his character, and he does it humorously. You are not him..
Everyone who is not a Trek fan rates it as "above average" and "quite good" Everyone who is a Trek fan was PISSED when they saw the ending... I mean really THAT is their ending?Akichi Daikashima said:
WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!?!??! "Hey guys!!!! Lets take the end of Wrath of Khan (because ya know, we have Khan and all... and just flip Kirk and Spock. Lets even have them use the same lines and body language!!!! The fans will LOVE that." Screw you Abrams!!!
I am now at a point where I want to force Disney to take Star Wars away from Abrams........ That ending was SHAMEFUL!!!