Escape to the Movies: The Lone Ranger

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CharlesCarmichael

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The Dubya said:
....everyone loved the first Pirates Of The Caribbean movie.
The 63 Metacritic rating would tend to disagree with you

The Dubya said:
Yeah, I'm not surprised you felt POTC vibes because it WAS just a shoddy rehash of POTC ostensibly set in the Wild Wild West. That's EXACTLY what they were banking on when they cast Johnny Depp to play Johnny Depp in The Johnny Deep Movie.
Why do you say POTC rehash like that's a bad thing? As stated I thought POTC was awesome, so if they try to recapture the same magic I say go for it! And I think they actually did a better job recapturing it here than they did in the actual sequels, which is really all I'm looking for.

--Edit--
And in my original post, I meant 'A Good Day to Die Hard'. The most recent one. 'Live Free or Die Hard' was OK.
 

Mangod

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bificommander said:
And here I was expecting a World War Z review. Funnily enough, one of the big criticism I have on that one was mentioned almost literally here: Why call it World War Z, when that name will only draw attention of the fans of the book. and since most of those fans are the typical escapist-crowd, who will find out that it's nothing like the source material BEFORE buying their tickets, it'll only piss them off and make sure they don't see it. So even if the movie is good on it's own merits (the judge is still out on that one I hear), the name recognition does nothing positive for your movie. Why not make it an original movie that drops the WWZ pretense.
Well, far as I get it (haven't read the book(s)), they're selling the WWZ movie as a prequel/origin story. Still, yeah, I can see why people, especially fans of the original source material, would be crying

 

lastjustice

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*SPOILERS FOR THE MOVIE AHEAD BUT SINCE BOB"S REVIEW HAD TONS I WONT WORRY ABOUT IT.***


I'd firstly say this to anyone going to see the movie...basically expect Pirates of the old west. That's what I went in thinking, and I enjoyed it just fine.(The supernatural background is very similar.) Depp more or less is being Jack Sparrow in this film, and the character he isn't entirely noble by any stretch. I think it's less offensive to have him be an outcast being played by someone who wasn't Native American than the reverse. Especially since the movie hired a ton of legit Native Americans to stand along side him as the true noble savages the white man exploited.

As someone of Cherokee descent, I wasn't bothered in the slightest.(entertainment has no affirmative action, and it shouldn't. People have the right to tell whatever story they wish and have no responsibility to waiver for sake of PC.) I was glad they played it straight on the whole situation because that sort of thing really happened. The Comanche and other groups really did get horribly slaughtered, betrayed, and kicked off their land. (Which I didn't think the plot was that complicated, dude sells out and gets everyone to play along or he kills them. That was consistently the story and was hardly complicated or hard to follow.) The movie didn't have the Lone Ranger magically keep that from happening. While he stopped the main villains over all plot, progress still trampled the natives. Even the Lone Ranger can't stop the manifest destiny. In some campier story they'd probably had go down that way. I'm glad they stuck their guns, and showed both sides of America's history. Progress indeed came, by at a terrible price all around. I think showing that uncomfortable aspect more than offsets a single character being cast as another race.

As for Supernatural stuff, just because Tonto is believed to be nuts, doesn't mean everything he said was wrong. Like Jack Sparrow people don't believe him even when he is telling the truth. John Reid really is the spirit walker and Silver is the spirit horse. John actually starts believing in it and himself at the end why he actually saves the day. We don't see him be the True Lone Ranger till end of the film, but he definitely gets there. The movie just tries have fun getting there. I guess I enjoy people having to take a journey of faith to it's end. Feeling like a farce, but still staying true to their convictions and following them to it's end no matter how over their head they get. No matter how scared they might feel in the moment. John Reid follows his convictions and doesn't believe in taking lives pointlessly. He disarms and captures enemies first and foremost. That aspect of his character hasn't changed.

Tonto still does exactly what he said he would to the villains. He takes the silver and return them to the Earth. He obviously ends up doing it in a bit differently still fulfills his destiny. Butch Cavendish is still a monster, but he's the different kind...the real variety. While the openly show that he is a flesh eater, he is however never shown on screen actually eating or cutting out the people's body parts. It's just strongly implied by what people watching him doing that it's disturbing, but it's a PG-13 movie. I think it's still ok for kids above the age of 8 to see.

Overall I took my mom to see it since I knew she wanted to go, and we both liked it. As someone who's always had nostalgia for Cowboys(I loved Clint Eastwood and Galaxy Rangers...space cowboys...even cooler hehe.) , and the Lone Ranger I was happy to watch.(I'd watch the Legend of the Lone Ranger every time it was on TV since it aired a lot during the 80s on movie cable channels.) If a movie hits all buttons that makes my inner 6 year old want to see it, then I do. I'm usually happy when they do heh. Bob is allowed to have his opinion and I have mine. I liked it and that's my story.
 

Deacon Cole

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MB202 said:
Oh, and by the way Bob, you already pointed out that the Green Hornet was the Lone Ranger's relative in your review of the Green Hornet movie a few years back.
Yeah, but who remembers the Green Hornet movie? Much less the review.

But, yes. Both characters were created for radio by the same guy, George W. Trendle, with Fran Striker doing the actual writing duties. Look it up and decide for yourself who deserves the real credit. Nice to see bad movies run in the family, I guess.

I can't help but wonder if this movie would have been better with Depp in the lead as the Ranger and an actual Native American actor as Tonto who was not dressed like a gay burlesque performer. I don't know if that would have worked, even with a different, better script after watching Depp play serious in the awful and forgettable Public Enemy. When doing serious roles, Depp turn into wood. Lebanese poplar, if I know my lumber. He just kind of stares into the middle distance because he's used to ooze charisma by just standing there chewing gum (see the TV show 21 Jumpstreet). Well, he's getting old and can't coast on his youthful good looks anymore. Too bad that's what his skill set relies upon. Yet he still makes money and there are people who actually think he's a good actor. I'm reminded of the piano player Ernie in Catcher In the Rye.

I'm not too sure what the name of the song was that he was playing when I came in, but whatever it was, he was really stinking it up. He was putting all these dumb, show-offy ripples in the high notes, and a lot of other very tricky stuff that gives me a pain in the ass. You should've heard the crowd, though, when he was finished. You would've puked. They went mad. They were exactly the same morons that laugh like hyenas in the movies at stuff that isn't funny. I swear to God, if I were a piano player or an actor or something and all those dopes thought I was terrific, I'd hate it. I wouldn't even want them to clap for me. People always clap for the wrong things. If I were a piano player, I'd play it in the goddam closet. Anyway, when he was finished, and everybody was clapping their heads off, old Ernie turned around on his stool and gave this very phony, humble bow. Like as if he was a helluva humble guy, besides being a terrific piano player. It was very phony--I mean him being such a big snob and all. In a funny way, though, I felt sort of sorry for him when he was finished. I don't even think he knows any more when he's playing right or not. It isn't all his fault. I partly blame all those dopes that clap their heads off--they'd foul up anybody, if you gave them a chance.
He doesn't know he's terrible because people keep telling him he's good. This is part of the reason why I don't make Youtube videos reviewing thirty year old video games. That and I'm pretty sure my voice is the brown noise.

So, yeah. Depp is terrible. Can't speak for Arm & Hammer Baking Soda. He might be a decent enough actor whose career will not recover from this. But these Disney action-adventure movies have been grating on me for a while now. I really hate Pirates. I hated Depp in that movie. I was expecting a swashbuckler and I got the foppish town drunk. The first sequel was better because it built on small things hinted at in the previous movie. But overall, they're just cynical crowd pleasers. They offer nothing deep or interesting, but they get asses in seats. That's all they really need to do, I suppose. Maybe turning Capt. Sparrow into a effeminate drunk was part of the plan, to not give us what we were expecting. To turn the genre on it's head. So they turned the Lone Ranger into a bumbling buffoon because they had already done the gay town drunk and made Tonto the real brains of the outfit. What next? Sherlock Holmes?

Oh, wait.


Difference is, that movie is actually enjoyable.
 

Abomination

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Jetsetneo said:
Now, I can't name a Native American star who puts that part of themselves up front, but i don't know if thats yet ANOTHER problem with hollywood or what.
Name a Native American Actor. Just one.[/quote]This sounds like more of a problem with the industry than with The Lone Ranger. Apparently there AREN'T any Native American actors that would be capable to play the role in the studio's eyes.

Native American actors aren't exactly popping out of the woodwork. I guess you could have gone with http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0671567/ - Michael Peña, but he's Mexican and not directly Native American but is frequently typecast as one.
 

McMarbles

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Does Johnny Depp even act anymore, or does he just show up, slather himself in makeup, and do his Emo Philips impression?
 

CharlesCarmichael

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The Dubya said:
CharlesCarmichael said:
The Dubya said:
....everyone loved the first Pirates Of The Caribbean movie.
The 63 Metacritic rating would tend to disagree with you
And the 79% critic rating/86% audience rating on RottenTomatoes (and the 8.0/10 on IMDB) would disagree with you.

Let's not play this game. It was generally well liked, it made tons of money, and it turned Depp into the A-lister he is today. People liked it. Moving on.
I just brought it up to show that it's demonstrably false that EVERYONE loved the first Pirates. Yeah, more people liked it than didn't, but that doesn't mean the latter didn't exist, especially among the critics. But I'm fine with moving on.

The Dubya said:
The rest of us however will hold out for something that looks like it actually gives a damn.
So...wait, have you actually seen the movie? Or are you just going off of what the reviews have been saying?
 

freakonaleash

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Jan 3, 2009
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I don't think its that big a deal that Johnny Depp plays tonto, isn't the point of acting to take on the role of someone you're not?
 

4RM3D

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Moviebob, how can you spoil a movie that has no story and it predictable as hell?

That being said... what was actually being spoiled? It's not like the thing from Iron Man 3, or something.
 

Seldon2639

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So, let me make sure I understand this:

Actual Native American Tribes on Johnny Depp playing Tanto: "kinda weird, but we'll induct him into our tribes and be happy that Native Americans are getting a positive character in a movie, rather than caring who was cast; so congratulations to the newest Comanche."

Movie Bob: "It is wrong on so many levels for Johnny Depp to be playing Tanto."

When the actual Native Americans have less objection than you do, perhaps your position is less reasonable than you think.
 

MB202

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the antithesis said:
MB202 said:
Oh, and by the way Bob, you already pointed out that the Green Hornet was the Lone Ranger's relative in your review of the Green Hornet movie a few years back.
Yeah, but who remembers the Green Hornet movie? Much less the review.
I do, since I'm a dork like that. :p
 

CharlesCarmichael

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The Dubya said:
CharlesCarmichael said:
The Dubya said:
The rest of us however will hold out for something that looks like it actually gives a damn.
So...wait, have you actually seen the movie? Or are you just going off of what the reviews have been saying?
Yeah I saw the dumbass thing.

Just not in theaters....

..........

*shifty eyes*
Uh...Huh... Well if you're that type, then I can see we're going to have some difficulties connecting on the same level. But OK, you ask why they should be rewarded for making the same movie, let's look into that (leaving aside the fact that critics aren't saying "It's the same movie as POTC and therefore bad," but rather "It's bad on its own").

Sequels that try to copy the formula of the original movie while still keeping continuity with the original are bad because it forces you to hit Reset on any character development that may have happened in the first movie (see: MIB 2). They're the same characters, ostensibly older and wiser, but they're still doing the same old stuff.

Productions that try to copy what made an original good but in a new setting, on the other hand, are not inherently good or bad. Do you decry as 'lazy' any movie that, say, uses Romeo and Juliet or Hamlet as their template (even ignoring the ones that do direct 1-to-1 translations)? Whatever you may say about it, 10 Things I Hate About You wouldn't be described as 'ripping off' Shakespeare.

If you want a springboard off into new directions, then that is the realm of actual sequels. Empire Strikes Back is still Star Wars, but it obviously isn't the same formula as A New Hope. But you can't 'springboard' a franchise off a completely different franchise. Why should one see the Lone Ranger instead of POTC again? Because, as a new franchise in a new setting with similar but not identical characters, it has the freedom to go off in new directions once this baseline is set.
 

wolf thing

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Seldon2639 said:
So, let me make sure I understand this:

Actual Native American Tribes on Johnny Depp playing Tanto: "kinda weird, but we'll induct him into our tribes and be happy that Native Americans are getting a positive character in a movie, rather than caring who was cast; so congratulations to the newest Comanche."

Movie Bob: "It is wrong on so many levels for Johnny Depp to be playing Tanto."

When the actual Native Americans have less objection than you do, perhaps your position is less reasonable than you think.
That's cherry picking, there have been many Native American Groups speaking out against the casting of Johnny Depp. Some are okay with it and that's fine but some are not and I am will to bet some of them will be Native American actors.

As for Bob; aye he did get very angry and I can understand why and as I have said there have been Native Americans also getting angry. Just because bob is not a Native American does not mean he can not comment or express his dislike (or like) of the casting choice and as a film critic I would expect him to do so.
 

Deacon Cole

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MB202 said:
the antithesis said:
MB202 said:
Oh, and by the way Bob, you already pointed out that the Green Hornet was the Lone Ranger's relative in your review of the Green Hornet movie a few years back.
Yeah, but who remembers the Green Hornet movie? Much less the review.
I do, since I'm a dork like that. :p
Would have been nice if both movies were any good. Also would have been nice if both movies were made by the same company so they could play off this connection. Maybe using the same actor as the Ranger and Hornet. That would be kind of nice.
 

Ihateregistering1

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Seldon2639 said:
So, let me make sure I understand this:

Actual Native American Tribes on Johnny Depp playing Tanto: "kinda weird, but we'll induct him into our tribes and be happy that Native Americans are getting a positive character in a movie, rather than caring who was cast; so congratulations to the newest Comanche."

Movie Bob: "It is wrong on so many levels for Johnny Depp to be playing Tanto."

When the actual Native Americans have less objection than you do, perhaps your position is less reasonable than you think.
Clearly those Native American tribes are racist and need Movie Bob to enlighten them (sarcasm).

Thank you much for pointing this out.