Escapist News Now: Bravely Default Censored in Western Market

[Something Amyss]

The standard? I'm just asking for products the way they were designed(not counting translation, even though far more content is lost in that regard).

What you asked was whether or not I wanted to be treated by/viewed by other countries as though we were prudes based on this concept they were censoring things before they reached our shores. I'm indicating that's not really the case. We have a more than forty year history of demanding anime and such be censored, or censoring it ourselves, etc.

I searched for rating by the ESRB on Bravely Default, it hasn't been rated for Europe yet as far as I can see.

I honestly wasn't aware the American ratings board handled European releases. It does have a PEGI rating, however.

It would depend on the reason why the creators alter their works wouldn't it?

Honestly, no. It's still censoring one's self. I'm not sure why people are that freaked by the concept.

]Am I violating my own rights by doing so?

Who said anything about violating rights? That's just playing word games. You're still censoring yourself, you admitted it in that post. You self-censor all the time.

 

[Lok'tar]

Honestly, no. It's still censoring one's self. I'm not sure why people are that freaked by the concept.

I think because it somewhat dilutes the term. If it's treated as it originally was, altering work for any reason to be more acceptable, then it encompasses so many things that it almost loses meaning. I assume that's why so many treat it as changes made against the creators will, as it gives a clearer intent.

 

[[REDACTED]]

Who said anything about violating rights? That's just playing word games. You're still censoring yourself, you admitted it in that post. You self-censor all the time.

Wait, what? If we're not talking about censorship in the "violating rights to free speech" sense, why do we care? Lumping self-censorship in with the actually dangerous kinds of censorship just makes the entire discussion meaningless.

 

[Something Amyss]

What does this have to do with localization? Overall, nothing.

ESPECIALLY since localised games in the past were changed, which makes it not relevant to your argument that things are somehow different or worse now.

 

[Something Amyss]

I think because it somewhat dilutes the term. If it's treated as it originally was, altering work for any reason to be more acceptable, then it encompasses so many things that it almost loses meaning. I assume that's why so many treat it as changes made against the creators will, as it gives a clearer intent.

Except people cry censorship over voluntary changes all the time. How does it make it clearer to use a definition that doesn't fit?

]

Wait, what? If we're not talking about censorship in the "violating rights to free speech" sense, why do we care? Lumping self-censorship in with the actually dangerous kinds of censorship just makes the entire discussion meaningless.

People clearly do care. I can't speak as to why, but they do. Have you not been reading this thread?

Also, are you therefore fine with corporate censorship, which does not violate free speech rights?

Because if you're suddenly going to invoke that definition, you're suddenly leaving out one of the big venues for negative censorship.

 

[Lok'tar]

Except people cry censorship over voluntary changes all the time. How does it make it clearer to use a definition that doesn't fit?

That's a good point. I guess for most censorship is shorthand for "Changes made that I didn't want".

Just a thought.

 

[[REDACTED]]

People clearly do care. I can't speak as to why, but they do. Have you not been reading this thread?

Also, are you therefore fine with corporate censorship, which does not violate free speech rights?

Because if you're suddenly going to invoke that definition, you're suddenly leaving out one of the big venues for negative censorship.

Edit: Okay, fuck everything about this post. I was acting like a complete jackass here. Apologies to all.

You quoted my post about Nier to say that it wasn't localization, but censorship, because your definition of censorship is functionally identical to the world's definition of localization. Forgive me for being a bit confused about that.

Also, much as I hate to be the asshole with the dictionary,

[link=http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/censorship]cen·sor·ship noun \ˈsen(t)-sər-ˌship\
: the system or practice of censoring books, movies, letters, etc.

Full Definition of CENSORSHIP

1
a : the institution, system, or practice of censoring
b : the actions or practices of censors; especially : censorial control exercised repressively

[/link]

Nowhere does it mention self-censorship as an actual form of censorship.

As for corporate censorship, I was (somewhat stupidly) thinking of it in terms of the fundamental right sense, which isn't always going to match up exactly with the ways that the countries that believe in it choose to implement it in law. I'd argue that any repression of free speech is bad in the long run, regardless of it's legal legitimacy.

 

[kekkres]

My question is whats with JRPG's having the dumbest, most nonsensical titles ever? And no, I'm not talking about Final Fantasy, there was a logical reason for that it just became ironic when it turned out to be successful.

No I mean games like this: Bravely Default...Infinite Undiscovery...Ys....Ar Tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel...ok seriously wtf? Hard to imagine they sound any less ridiculous in Japanese either.

Ys is an actual name of an "actual" mythical island that sunk into the sea ala atlantis, its french i think.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

I searched for rating by the ESRB on Bravely Default, it hasn't been rated for Europe yet as far as I can see.

I honestly wasn't aware the American ratings board handled European releases. It does have a PEGI rating, however.

Yeah, I mixed the two up there, used to searching for anything starting with "E" for europe...
However, the PEGI 12 rating which the game received allows for sexual innuendo. So I don't see why that would be the problem.

Again, as mentioned in various articles, it at least seems like Square did this because of prior problems with Dead or Alive.

]
Wait, what? If we're not talking about censorship in the "violating rights to free speech" sense, why do we care? Lumping self-censorship in with the actually dangerous kinds of censorship just makes the entire discussion meaningless.

In my opinion self-censorship is just as, or even more dangerous than censorship by some organisation or institution. That's because you can't put a tracker on it and starts to lead a life of its own.

When a big fuss is created about something and it ends up being censored, at least you know where it is coming from. Discussion is possible, alternatives are considered.
With self-censorship that is missing, it becomes a natural thing to edit content for certain regions, even though a large number of people are opposed to it.

This case might not be very dramatic, but you can easily imagine more drastic cases.

 

[[REDACTED]]

In my opinion self-censorship is just as, or even more dangerous than censorship by some organisation or institution. That's because you can't put a tracker on it and starts to lead a life of its own.

When a big fuss is created about something and it ends up being censored, at least you know where it is coming from. Discussion is possible, alternatives are considered.
With self-censorship that is missing, it becomes a natural thing to edit content for certain regions, even though a large number of people are opposed to it.

This case might not be very dramatic, but you can easily imagine more drastic cases.

What would be a drastic case in your opinion? I actually can't imagine how this could be a problem, as long as the decision rests with the people making the game.

 

[Alfredo Jones]

To all of you talking about censorship and self-censorship, I recommend you watch this video by Moviebob about this subject. If anything it may give you a better understanding of the situation.

http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-overbytes-dont-censor-me

 

[That Eeyore]

I've played a small bit of the demo for this game, thinking I may pick it up when it launches, and I can't see why people are complaining. They've altered some of the content to make the game more palatable to the new market they aim to sell it to. I understand the feeling of knowing others who play it have an experience you do not have access to, but really, what are you really missing out on?

 

[Fearzone]

I wish people would stop using the word censorship inappropriately.

If Square Enix alters costume design to better appeal to or offend less a western market, that is a design and marketing decision entirely within their freedom as a game producer, and not censorship.

Personally I like the little shorts better, I mean back in the day dolphin shorts were seriously more hot than bikini bottoms. The other costume I'm neutral about either way.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

I'd understand the censorship and problem with it, if they were real. They're drawings, turned CGI. The fact that we can just make them 18 without even trying just proves that's it's the number, not the character.

And yeah, I get different cultures and all that, but it's pretty much just outfits, and even more so, if they're now 18 years old, why do the outfits need censoring?

I myself just don't really like censorship, as someone who draws, seeing any form of artwork censored to adjust to the sensitive types, or culture, just bothers me.

Also, this game's T - for Teen, so if the characters are now legal age, why does the outfits need censoring again?

 

[[REDACTED]]

SNIP

It's not that the original version bothers me in any way; I just don't think it's a form of censorship if it's a voluntary marketing decision.

 

[gamegod25]

My question is whats with JRPG's having the dumbest, most nonsensical titles ever? And no, I'm not talking about Final Fantasy, there was a logical reason for that it just became ironic when it turned out to be successful.

No I mean games like this: Bravely Default...Infinite Undiscovery...Ys....Ar Tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel...ok seriously wtf? Hard to imagine they sound any less ridiculous in Japanese either.

Ys is an actual name of an "actual" mythical island that sunk into the sea ala atlantis, its french i think.

Maybe so but that doesn't make it any less weird looking or hard to say. And I have no clue if that has anything to do with anything in the game.

 

[DjinnFor]

Now you can't equate playing a shooter game to fantasizing about murder the same way you can't equate playing a JRPG to fantasizing about molesting underage girls. But the issue as it stands is we don't have an obvious issue of people directly fantasizing about murder due to shooter games(this isn't to say its not happening its just got a lot less direct visual evidence that you can find on Google)..whereas there is extreme and direct evidence all over the internet of people fantasizing about molesting underage girls and a good amount of this vicarious fantasy is based on JRPG and anime style characters...

Uhhh... what?

We most certainly do not have an issue about people fantasizing about pedophilia because of games in the same way that we don't have an issue about people fantasizing about violence because of games.

Both are problems already inherent in society, games are neither a catalyst nor a cause of these things. Our violent tendency is one of the biggest problems with the human race and has been since the dawn of humanity.

The vast majority of people believe in and fully support violent, aggressive action taken against people they don't like. They are perfectly willing to steal from people for their own personal benefit or to satisfy ends they desire to reach. They will endlessly produce ex post facto justifications which paint them as heroic in advocating for and using violence to satisfy their desires and adamantly refuse to acknowledge the immorality of their actions.

How do I know this? They vote in elections.

]It's not that the original version bothers me in any way; I just don't think it's a form of censorship if it's a voluntary marketing decision.

Voluntarily self-censoring [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-censorship] because your target audience is full of a bunch of prudes is still a form of censorship.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

So what are we supposed to do then? Hack a Japanese version and insert the sounds and texts of the English version?
How much do we have to pay to get an uncensored localized version?

 

[Fdzzaigl]

]
What would be a drastic case in your opinion? I actually can't imagine how this could be a problem, as long as the decision rests with the people making the game.

Companies or artists being severely limited in their creative work when they need to release a game in a certain territory.

Take for example TERA online, its armor styles show a lot of nude for females, but while they don't all appeal to me, they're all still fairly creative and well-made.

If before the game even gets released these artistic choices are scrapped because they might lead to confrontation, that's a serious issue imo.

You can take it even further, out of just the "clothing" deal. All sorts of themes could be self-censored out because of fear that they might rub some people the wrong way, while the most interesting and innovative ideas are often exactly the ones that dare to engage in those kinds of themas.

In the end I think it walks the path toward more uniformity, instead of diversity.

Fuck, square nor Nintendo had any dealings with localization of Bravely Default, it was third party group that did it. In fact the company that did the change was binarisonori. http://www.siliconera.com/2013/12/16/heres-worked-bravely-defaults-english-localization/

I'm still looking to in 4chan to see if any manage to screencap nintendo and square response, when the Americans started asking if it was the same as the PAL version.

You sure about that, seems like they're a company that mostly deals with voicework and audio.