Escapist Podcast: 090: Nintendo Bails on E3 and Dragon's Crown's Breasts
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Here's where I stand.
I admit it. I love the Sorceress's design. At the same time, the Amazon's clothing annoys me. Yeah, I don't mind absurd anatomy (directed at males or females), but absurdly skimpy clothing pisses me off. It always comes across as the artist is trying way too hard to be sexy, and doesn't have any real idea of how to do it.
Incidentally, this is nothing new for Vanillaware. Characters in Odin Sphere (Queens Odette and Elfaria) had nearly the exact same proportions as the sorceress. It's funny that people picked up on it now (I also find it sad that the poor elf, who definitely is not as stacked as the other two females in DC, gets ignored).
I stand corrected. The Elf did get a mention! One thing she seemed to miss is that all the characters are comically exaggerated. The Knight (huge heroic V-shape), Dwarf (bulging muscles), and the Wizard (slender Bishonen with flowing white hair (female fanservice character?)) are all extremely stylized and/or idealized... Well, maybe not the Wizard being exaggerated.
And speaking of Ivy. Her alternate outfit in SCI was my favorite too.
The idea of boxart vs. boxart on the same game works. I've seen it in action. When Command & Conquer: Generals came out, it had three boxes: One focused on the USA, one for China, and one for the GLA. The US covers sold out first for whole weeks before anyone touched the Chinese covers, which sold much more slowly once the US ones were gone. I don't know if anyone ever bought the GLA covers.
I admit it. I love the Sorceress's design. At the same time, the Amazon's clothing annoys me. Yeah, I don't mind absurd anatomy (directed at males or females), but absurdly skimpy clothing pisses me off. It always comes across as the artist is trying way too hard to be sexy, and doesn't have any real idea of how to do it.
Incidentally, this is nothing new for Vanillaware. Characters in Odin Sphere (Queens Odette and Elfaria) had nearly the exact same proportions as the sorceress. It's funny that people picked up on it now (I also find it sad that the poor elf, who definitely is not as stacked as the other two females in DC, gets ignored).
I stand corrected. The Elf did get a mention! One thing she seemed to miss is that all the characters are comically exaggerated. The Knight (huge heroic V-shape), Dwarf (bulging muscles), and the Wizard (slender Bishonen with flowing white hair (female fanservice character?)) are all extremely stylized and/or idealized... Well, maybe not the Wizard being exaggerated.
And speaking of Ivy. Her alternate outfit in SCI was my favorite too.
The idea of boxart vs. boxart on the same game works. I've seen it in action. When Command & Conquer: Generals came out, it had three boxes: One focused on the USA, one for China, and one for the GLA. The US covers sold out first for whole weeks before anyone touched the Chinese covers, which sold much more slowly once the US ones were gone. I don't know if anyone ever bought the GLA covers.
Well, first off, I felt very annoyed how frank and upbeat you guys were, but which was helped by fire emblem: awakening. Playing that on hard/classic is a nightmare when under pressure, even though you can take your time in planning out every movement and attack you make. I guess I won't do that next time.
Anyway, about the sorceress's proportions, I'm on the side of people that think it's so blown out of proportion it's more comedy than something you CAN take seriously.
But, the problem that there are ONLY those types of characters that're attractive... that's about right. And yet, I keep buying games with those people in it. Even fire emblem seems to have that going for it, though it does have a large cast of characters to keep up with.
As for the grimdark thing... Well, I guess it depends on how the game uses that to me. But then again, I tend to gloss over AAA, sometimes getting maybe one or 2, and tend to go towards a bit more niche titles. Think Shin Megami Tensei(devil survivor spin offs), Etrian Odyssey kind of way. I am all for variety of course, but I think I lean towards that side the most.
EDIT: Forgot to say, but I never use ad-block things. I'm too lazy to install them. And right now, it wouldn't benefit me, since I mostly use the game sites that live off of ad revenue. Well, benefit me in the sense that it would benefit you guys. So that I keep getting great articles and vids on here.
Anyway, about the sorceress's proportions, I'm on the side of people that think it's so blown out of proportion it's more comedy than something you CAN take seriously.
But, the problem that there are ONLY those types of characters that're attractive... that's about right. And yet, I keep buying games with those people in it. Even fire emblem seems to have that going for it, though it does have a large cast of characters to keep up with.
As for the grimdark thing... Well, I guess it depends on how the game uses that to me. But then again, I tend to gloss over AAA, sometimes getting maybe one or 2, and tend to go towards a bit more niche titles. Think Shin Megami Tensei(devil survivor spin offs), Etrian Odyssey kind of way. I am all for variety of course, but I think I lean towards that side the most.
EDIT: Forgot to say, but I never use ad-block things. I'm too lazy to install them. And right now, it wouldn't benefit me, since I mostly use the game sites that live off of ad revenue. Well, benefit me in the sense that it would benefit you guys. So that I keep getting great articles and vids on here.
Another great one guys. Thank you.
Lashani, you should speak up more. You almost come of as timid and that is a shame.
Susan:
I will admit to buying a game based on having a hot woman on the cover:
If it was not for Karin being on the cover I am pretty sure I would never have picked up this game (though to be fair I did go home and look up a few reviews before returning to the store to buy it). Became one of my favourite games but I would have missed out completely if it had not been for the box art (and why has its brilliant battle system not made it to this console generation *sad*).
Then again I was never even close to pick up x-blades.
Finally: Is Janelle any closer to recovering? She really is over due for another podcat appearance. I (probably we, but it is rude to speak on others behalf) miss her
Lashani, you should speak up more. You almost come of as timid and that is a shame.
Susan:
I will admit to buying a game based on having a hot woman on the cover:
If it was not for Karin being on the cover I am pretty sure I would never have picked up this game (though to be fair I did go home and look up a few reviews before returning to the store to buy it). Became one of my favourite games but I would have missed out completely if it had not been for the box art (and why has its brilliant battle system not made it to this console generation *sad*).
Then again I was never even close to pick up x-blades.
Finally: Is Janelle any closer to recovering? She really is over due for another podcat appearance. I (probably we, but it is rude to speak on others behalf) miss her
Best titles for me.
They bleed pixels
Bloodbowl
My main thought on the whole sexy debate is does it make sense in game logic? If it is stylized and everyone dressed in such an absurd way sure why not have it. If only a few women dress in bikini armor when all the guys are in full armor the girls feel out of place.
As to positive games:
I tend to like the darker stories over the happy ones as they have more at stake and it is plausible that the ?heroes? may fail or die/lose everything. I hate stories where good always prevails over evil and good/evil are clear cut. This type of story make positives hard but when it happens it carries more weight.
Also does positive mean working for the government? If so I always back the empire in star wars games where you can choose your side.
They bleed pixels
Bloodbowl
My main thought on the whole sexy debate is does it make sense in game logic? If it is stylized and everyone dressed in such an absurd way sure why not have it. If only a few women dress in bikini armor when all the guys are in full armor the girls feel out of place.
As to positive games:
I tend to like the darker stories over the happy ones as they have more at stake and it is plausible that the ?heroes? may fail or die/lose everything. I hate stories where good always prevails over evil and good/evil are clear cut. This type of story make positives hard but when it happens it carries more weight.
Also does positive mean working for the government? If so I always back the empire in star wars games where you can choose your side.
Burritos are awesome.
If Chipotle ever went out of business I think I'd cry.
As far as favorite game titles I would have to say Mirror's Edge. I just think it's cool sounding title.
If Chipotle ever went out of business I think I'd cry.
As far as favorite game titles I would have to say Mirror's Edge. I just think it's cool sounding title.
I'll add Phantasmagoria as a great game title. I actually played it based on the name alone.
Speaking of diversity, I would much rather play a character that is opinionated, inquisitive, selfless, feisty, funny, and sarcastic, with A cups, as opposed to a vapid, self-absorbed diva with D cups. To me the former is "sexy" while the latter is not, no matter their physical attractiveness.
Speaking of diversity, I would much rather play a character that is opinionated, inquisitive, selfless, feisty, funny, and sarcastic, with A cups, as opposed to a vapid, self-absorbed diva with D cups. To me the former is "sexy" while the latter is not, no matter their physical attractiveness.
I think that the true sign of progress will be when cup size is irrelevant (which will probably only happen once developers are willing and able to create a more plausible variety of characters in games that are meant to be vaguely realistic).AkaDad said:
Also, out of curiosity, are there really adults who play games based on how attractive the characters are? What kind of games/why?
Did anyone else have movie day every couple weeks in 2nd grade? It was never anything educational, just the weird 80s fantasy flicks like The Neverending Story.
Remember Final fantasy X? It had that same mage trope - that big breasted goth chick that even leaned over after every fight. It was still a decent game regardless, even with the horrible voice acting. Said character even had a nice personality. She was guarded, protective and caring without being overbearing.
Favorite game name - Einhander. Hearing the name one would expect it to be a crazy viking hack n slasher like Rune, not a space shooter. It just sounds awesome, like Highlander or Zweihander.
Remember Final fantasy X? It had that same mage trope - that big breasted goth chick that even leaned over after every fight. It was still a decent game regardless, even with the horrible voice acting. Said character even had a nice personality. She was guarded, protective and caring without being overbearing.
Favorite game name - Einhander. Hearing the name one would expect it to be a crazy viking hack n slasher like Rune, not a space shooter. It just sounds awesome, like Highlander or Zweihander.
I believe he was actually thinking of Charlotte:cynicalsaint1 said:Quick side note, Greg may be thinking of Hilde (Soul Calibur 4 & 5)
I've always thought she looked pretty awesome myself.
Right name, right genre, wrong game. Charlotte is from the samurai Shodown/Spirits series.
Yep. I know a guy who will, if given options, always pick the game with the most scantily clad/large breasted girl. He also, perhaps unsurprisingly, has no idea how to treat women like actual people in real life.bravetoaster said:
I'd say any of the games in the Gabriel Knight series have great poetic (and relevant) names to the games:
Sins of the Fathers
The Beast Within
Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned
Omikron: the nomad soul is a game whose name always intrigued me, yet was a horrible letdown.
Grim Fandango and Shadow of the Colossus are also impressively evocative titles. Beyond Good and Evil is also quite a good turn of phrase.
Sins of the Fathers
The Beast Within
Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned
Omikron: the nomad soul is a game whose name always intrigued me, yet was a horrible letdown.
Grim Fandango and Shadow of the Colossus are also impressively evocative titles. Beyond Good and Evil is also quite a good turn of phrase.
Tito doesnt get how "Half Life" is related to the game?... Im really surprised, I would have said that was one of the most obvious titles. The game is set in a nuclear (/"anomalous materials") research facility, and the whole main plot kicks off directly in the middle of, and as a result of, you the player performing one such experiment on a mystery nuclear material.
Mai'dah Id suggest should go play the Black Mesa mod. Great way to get the Half Life vibe without having to put up with the really old graphics and certain gameplay/level design problems of the original. Although its hard to get the same experience of how amazing HL was these days because of the number of great ideas that have become pretty standard nowdays.
As for the "boobs on boxes" discussion, I definitely agree with Susan's hesitation. Im highly skeptical that the research showing boxes with females on the covers sell better is because of a cause-and-effect situation. Personally I think its much more likely to be the opposite way around - we know that game executives believe in that theory, so it seems just as plausible that when publishers have a high cost, high profile, big marketing AAA title they are going to be more likely to put a female on the cover. Unless you could compare exactly identical games with different covers like Susan suggested, it seems to me that games get females on the covers because they are high selling, rather than games being high selling because of females on the cover.
Mai'dah Id suggest should go play the Black Mesa mod. Great way to get the Half Life vibe without having to put up with the really old graphics and certain gameplay/level design problems of the original. Although its hard to get the same experience of how amazing HL was these days because of the number of great ideas that have become pretty standard nowdays.
As for the "boobs on boxes" discussion, I definitely agree with Susan's hesitation. Im highly skeptical that the research showing boxes with females on the covers sell better is because of a cause-and-effect situation. Personally I think its much more likely to be the opposite way around - we know that game executives believe in that theory, so it seems just as plausible that when publishers have a high cost, high profile, big marketing AAA title they are going to be more likely to put a female on the cover. Unless you could compare exactly identical games with different covers like Susan suggested, it seems to me that games get females on the covers because they are high selling, rather than games being high selling because of females on the cover.
Hmmm, many points to hit on this podcast.
Gay comments: I think a big thing is that whether or not one believes being gay or such to be wrong or right, it is still generally feels insulting to be called gay when you are not. An odd conundrum.
Sexy characters: I really like how you discussed it on this podcast, nuff said.
Game Names: Ummmmm, Final Fantasy is a pretty cool title I guess with an interesting story around it. And the irony of it. Hard to think of individual titles that just stand out on their own without just being fairly quickand direct description of the game...hmmm. Persona is a pretty cool title too, I guess?
Box Art: Anime chicks on the box certainly make me take a gander at the back of the box at least.
But then, I just like anime. Overly sexualized chick on the box art more often averts the eyes away on the assumption that it's likely a dumb game if that's the tactic.
I did buy a game once because I thought the character looked like Link. And man Dark Cloud was gooood. Marketing lessons:
Step one, put a sexy chick on the cover.
Step two, if not a sexy chick, put someone that looks kind of like a more popular character.
Step three, profit.
Hmm, I feel I would be more inclined to looking at random games if they had the original japanese box arts. >.>
Well, I'm sure localized box arts are a huge discussion for another time.
Gay comments: I think a big thing is that whether or not one believes being gay or such to be wrong or right, it is still generally feels insulting to be called gay when you are not. An odd conundrum.
Sexy characters: I really like how you discussed it on this podcast, nuff said.
Game Names: Ummmmm, Final Fantasy is a pretty cool title I guess with an interesting story around it. And the irony of it. Hard to think of individual titles that just stand out on their own without just being fairly quickand direct description of the game...hmmm. Persona is a pretty cool title too, I guess?
Box Art: Anime chicks on the box certainly make me take a gander at the back of the box at least.
But then, I just like anime. Overly sexualized chick on the box art more often averts the eyes away on the assumption that it's likely a dumb game if that's the tactic.
I did buy a game once because I thought the character looked like Link. And man Dark Cloud was gooood. Marketing lessons:
Step one, put a sexy chick on the cover.
Step two, if not a sexy chick, put someone that looks kind of like a more popular character.
Step three, profit.
Hmm, I feel I would be more inclined to looking at random games if they had the original japanese box arts. >.>
Well, I'm sure localized box arts are a huge discussion for another time.
Susan! I thought you were an editor! If an individual is 18 or older (and female), then they are a "woman." A "girl" would imply this person is younger than 18. It would be creepy to have scantily clad/large breasted girls on boxart.Susan Arendt said:
Sorry, I know this is real issue and should be taken seriously, but I couldn't resist.
