Yes I would recommend it, I watched series 1 without reading the books and enjoyed it immensely, I had the books on order from amazon within half an hour of the series finale finishing because i was hooked and had to know what happened next. Definitely something you can enjoy without reading the books first.
Good podcast. Those are really my main problems with the show as well, especially with regards to Jamie. I really felt that the show almost ruined his character - the best thing about him in the books was that it turns out that he really wasn't that bad of a person, and for the show to have him murder someone in cold blood was just ... uh.
Good podcast. Those are really my main problems with the show as well, especially with regards to Jamie. I really felt that the show almost ruined his character - the best thing about him in the books was that it turns out that he really wasn't that bad of a person, and for the show to have him murder someone in cold blood was just ... uh.
Almost the first tidbit we see of Jaime Lannister's characterization, both in book and in tv series have him throwing a fucking kid off a tower without a second thought, guilt, or remorse. That makes him that bad of a person.
Let me repeat it. He threw a child off a window as an afterthought. Whatever we know of him that might redeem him comes much, much after. If anything, the show antecipated the shades of grey in his character in relation to the books with his tale of idolizing Barristan Selmy.
If you haven't read the books past Clash of Kings, here be spoilers.
The big flaw in this "You got Jaime wrong" premiss is the gross overlooking of two things. One is the aforementioned fact that he had no qualms about killing a little boy, something even Cersei, who proves to be far heartless than he is in the long run, has huge qualms about, even if only for practical reasons. The other is, Jaime's redemptive touches have a catalyst in the figure of Brienne, who really rubs off on him and constantly shames him by being all the man he never was. His shades of honour come from that first and foremost, and are what cost him a hand. And then he is further humanized by showing how much he loves Cersei ( and would therefore be willing to do anything, up to and definitely not excluding the murder of a cousin to be with her) and his subsequent disgust at seeing her for what she truly is, and his genuine affection for Tyrion.
So, the arguments against him being portrayed as a total bastard fall flat. He's a single minded man, completely screwed up by the subvertion of his notions of honour, until he finds a woman that not only can kick his ass, but truly embodies the virtues he felt lost.
As said in the podcast, though, the knowledge that Bran would have had would have had terrible repercussions for him, Cersai, their children, and maybe even erupt into civil war. I believe he expresses some amount of guilt over it as well at least once in A Storm of Swords.
Haven't had time to listen to the whole podcast yet, but have they discussed how horrifically bad the actress playing Sansa is? How is she going to play book 4 "on-the-verge-of-epic" Sansa?
Haven't had time to listen to the whole podcast yet, but have they discussed how horrifically bad the actress playing Sansa is? How is she going to play book 4 "on-the-verge-of-epic" Sansa?
I never got that, all she seems to do is hide- She hasn't accomplished anything but be along for the ride in others schemes as far as I can tell. Where has she been almost epic?
Haven't had time to listen to the whole podcast yet, but have they discussed how horrifically bad the actress playing Sansa is? How is she going to play book 4 "on-the-verge-of-epic" Sansa?
I never got that, all she seems to do is hide- She hasn't accomplished anything but be along for the ride in others schemes as far as I can tell. Where has she been almost epic?
Sorry, my phrase was a little misleading. I didn't mean to imply that she's being doing things already that are "almost-epic".
What I meant to say is that book 4 strongly suggested that very soon, once we get more Sansa chapters, she is going to finally complete her long arc from passive victim to active player in the "game". Arya is the archetypal early-bloomer, but I think GRRM is strongly hinting that Sansa, the family's late-bloomer, is right on the edge of becoming the next Cersei or Catelyn.
All those chapters where she plays Littlefinger's pupil strongly foreshadow a more epic role for her in the final act of the series. At least that's how I read it, and I know at least some other people have agreed with me in that interpretation.
Haven't had time to listen to the whole podcast yet, but have they discussed how horrifically bad the actress playing Sansa is? How is she going to play book 4 "on-the-verge-of-epic" Sansa?
I never got that, all she seems to do is hide- She hasn't accomplished anything but be along for the ride in others schemes as far as I can tell. Where has she been almost epic?
Sorry, my phrase was a little misleading. I didn't mean to imply that she's being doing things already that are "almost-epic".
What I meant to say is that book 4 strongly suggested that very soon, once we get more Sansa chapters, she is going to finally complete her long arc from passive victim to active player in the "game". Arya is the archetypal early-bloomer, but I think GRRM is strongly hinting that Sansa, the family's late-bloomer, is right on the edge of becoming the next Cersei or Catelyn.
All those chapters where she plays Littlefinger's pupil strongly foreshadow a more epic role for her in the final act of the series. At least that's how I read it, and I know at least some other people have agreed with me in that interpretation.
I just watched Ep 9 and I got a little of what you are talking about I think. I never got that sense in the books. Sure she was doing what she needed to do to survive, but at least in the show she had that part about telling Tyrion that she prayed for his safe return; and then after he questioned it, she told him "as much as I prey for the king" ha ha. That showed him ha ha. So if that is any indication. She might be up to the task of being the Mockingbirds star pupil.
Good podcast. Those are really my main problems with the show as well, especially with regards to Jamie. I really felt that the show almost ruined his character - the best thing about him in the books was that it turns out that he really wasn't that bad of a person, and for the show to have him murder someone in cold blood was just ... uh.
Almost the first tidbit we see of Jaime Lannister's characterization, both in book and in tv series have him throwing a fucking kid off a tower without a second thought, guilt, or remorse. That makes him that bad of a person.
Let me repeat it. He threw a child off a window as an afterthought. Whatever we know of him that might redeem him comes much, much after. If anything, the show antecipated the shades of grey in his character in relation to the books with his tale of idolizing Barristan Selmy.
If you haven't read the books past Clash of Kings, here be spoilers.
The big flaw in this "You got Jaime wrong" premiss is the gross overlooking of two things. One is the aforementioned fact that he had no qualms about killing a little boy, something even Cersei, who proves to be far heartless than he is in the long run, has huge qualms about, even if only for practical reasons. The other is, Jaime's redemptive touches have a catalyst in the figure of Brienne, who really rubs off on him and constantly shames him by being all the man he never was. His shades of honour come from that first and foremost, and are what cost him a hand. And then he is further humanized by showing how much he loves Cersei ( and would therefore be willing to do anything, up to and definitely not excluding the murder of a cousin to be with her) and his subsequent disgust at seeing her for what she truly is, and his genuine affection for Tyrion.
So, the arguments against him being portrayed as a total bastard fall flat. He's a single minded man, completely screwed up by the subvertion of his notions of honour, until he finds a woman that not only can kick his ass, but truly embodies the virtues he felt lost.
No. I agree with Hosker. The series made him more evil than the books. He wouldn't have thrown a boy off for just the sake of killing him. He is in love with his sister. It's the irrational obsessive love that is bad enough as it is but the fact that it's forbidden drives him to do insane things.
On the other hand, I find that they made the cunty Cersei more likable in the show. As well as Tywin. I really don't understand why but I am really disappointed they ruined Jamie's character. His story is quite tragic.
I should probably qualify this by saying that I've never read any of the books so I don't know if the idea I've been given by listening to these is accurate... but I think it's a very good thing that formerly archetypal male 'heroes', are now being portrayed with more conflict and complexity.
I think that's one of the good things about Martin's characters in this world. They are all very human and conflicted and put in terrible positions that test their morality.
I've only actually seen patches of the TV series too come to think of it. I've kinda liked what I've seen so far, but I don't really have a lot of context. Would you recommend it, despite all the liberties it's apparently taking with the books, or is it just made for people who are already fans?
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