Escapist Podcast: Bonus: Game of Thronescast ? S3E5 and E6

[Farther than stars]

I think Joshua sums up the show best with one word: "gratuitous". All the violence and sex has just become part of the style, a way of making it seem more realistic. But to keep that same kind of shock value, the show needs to continually outdo itself. And since the first episode of season two I never doubted HBO's ability to do that. I was watching that first episode and thinking it was kind of mild. But then at the end a few (dozen) babies get slaughtered by Joffrey and I thought: "Yep, this is a Game of Thrones? season alright." Having the dead babies in jars and flaying Theon's finger is just to keep that level of gratuitousness up. But I agree that I would have rather seen that last example have purpose for the plot as well/instead.
As for what Janelle mentioned, I wouldn't worry about Arya. The prophesy - in which she's basically told that she'll kill people with brown eyes, green and blue - pretty much means she'll be around and a lot tougher for a while to come.

I really like the Theon torture scene(s). Is something wrong with me? I also don't think it's pointless at all. It develops the Boy's character.

It depends really... Did you like that scene because you see Theon suffer or did you like it for another reason? If it's the first, seek professional help. If the other reason is because you enjoy the Bastard of Bolton's glee, then see 'first'. If any other, you can rest easy, because then you're probably not a delusional psychopath at all.

 

[Farther than stars]

I didn't like that bit with Joffrey in the end to be honest. Sure he's evil but he's too much of a weakling to ever kill anyone himself. I'm sure it's just to show how much of a monster he is and justifiction for what's to come but I rather liked it when he was just a little brat with a bunch of guards.

Shooting someone who's tied up isn't exactly strong either. Don't worry, it's not like you're at risk of seeing Joffrey do any real fighting any time soon.

So my fiancée and I watch this together. After Joffery killed Ros, she has a new found respect for Theon.

How does that work?

 

[Uncle Comrade]

I didn't like that bit with Joffrey in the end to be honest. Sure he's evil but he's too much of a weakling to ever kill anyone himself. I'm sure it's just to show how much of a monster he is and justifiction for what's to come but I rather liked it when he was just a little brat with a bunch of guards.

Shooting someone who's tied up isn't exactly strong either. Don't worry, it's not like you're at risk of seeing Joffrey do any real fighting any time soon.

Plus at this point in the books Joffrey's already a serial cat murderer, and has taken his crossbow up to the walls to shoot at protesteting citizens. And let's not forget, he gave the impression of being about to do something horrible to Mycah the butcher's boy before Arya stepped in. Sure he'd never dare face someone in a straight fight, but if the other person is tied up/on the other side of a wall/petrified with fear/much smaller than he is, he's only too happy to get his hands (metaphorically) dirty.

With regards to Edmure's reluctance to marry a Frey daughter, a point the book makes is that he's not just annoyed that he doesn't get to pick his bride, he's worried that Lord Frey will deliberatly choose his ugliest daughter just to spite Edmure and the Starks. Cat reassures her brother that Frey wants grandchildren who will inherit Riverrun, he's not going to saddle Edmure with a wife he'd never want to impregnate.

Spoiler: My theory regarding Theon's torture

After the sack of Winterfell, Theon doesn't reappear until the fifth book, by which time he's lost several fingers and toes, most of his teeth, his wang, and his hair has turned white from the sheer stress of it. He is a completely broken person, willing to betray his own people and assist in the torture of others rather than face going back under the knife himself.

Obviously the show couldn't just spring that on us out of nowhere, so my guess is they're showing some of the torture now, then Theon will disappear for the next season, and reappear at the same time as he does in the books. That way our reaction when he pops up on screen will be less "What the fuck's going on?" and more "Holy shit they have messed him up"

 

[Farther than stars]

Spoiler: My theory regarding Theon's torture

After the sack of Winterfell, Theon doesn't reappear until the fifth book, by which time he's lost several fingers and toes, most of his teeth, his wang, and his hair has turned white from the sheer stress of it. He is a completely broken person, willing to betray his own people and assist in the torture of others rather than face going back under the knife himself.

Obviously the show couldn't just spring that on us out of nowhere, so my guess is they're showing some of the torture now, then Theon will disappear for the next season, and reappear at the same time as he does in the books. That way our reaction when he pops up on screen will be less "What the fuck's going on?" and more "Holy shit they have messed him up"

Yeah, except there's the problem that book three is split into 2 seasons and book 4 will probably be as well. So by your logic we wouldn't see Theon again until [correction:] season 7. Personally I think the writers will take a more creative approach and try to shift that story line ahead of the books.

 

[Uncle Comrade]

Spoiler: My theory regarding Theon's torture

After the sack of Winterfell, Theon doesn't reappear until the fifth book, by which time he's lost several fingers and toes, most of his teeth, his wang, and his hair has turned white from the sheer stress of it. He is a completely broken person, willing to betray his own people and assist in the torture of others rather than face going back under the knife himself.

Obviously the show couldn't just spring that on us out of nowhere, so my guess is they're showing some of the torture now, then Theon will disappear for the next season, and reappear at the same time as he does in the books. That way our reaction when he pops up on screen will be less "What the fuck's going on?" and more "Holy shit they have messed him up"

Yeah, except there's the problem that book three is split into 2 seasons and book 4 will probably be as well. So by your logic we wouldn't see Theon again until [correction:] season 7. Personally I think the writers will take a more creative approach and try to shift that story line ahead of the books.

True, but book 4 and the fisrt half of book 5 take place at the same time, and I'm pretty sure I read that the writers are going to combine storylines from both. Otherwise we'd have a whole season without Tyrion, Daenerys, Stannis, Jon or Bran, followed by another without Arya, Sansa or anyone in King's Landing.

The relationship between show and books seems to be going;
Season 3 = Book 3 part 1.
Season 4 = Book 3 part 2 + Possibly some early chapters of Book 4.
Season 5 = Books 4 + 5 part 1

That way, Theon would only be out of sight for season 4, which would make room to focus on other plotlines. That's how I'd do it, anyway. We don't really need to see the guy getting tortured for five minutes every week.

 

[Winterbird]

It depends really... Did you like that scene because you see Theon suffer or did you like it for another reason? If it's the first, seek professional help. If the other reason is because you enjoy the Bastard of Bolton's glee, then see 'first'. If any other, you can rest easy, because then you're probably not a delusional psychopath at all.

I don't hate Theon nor enjoy the Bastard (although I like them both as characters), so it's probably not that.
I think it's because of the mind games involved, not the actual physical torture. I loved it even in the book because it completely changed Theon's psyche. Although we don't see the actual torture in the books, just the aftermath.

 

[bdcjacko]

So my fiancée and I watch this together. After Joffery killed Ros, she has a new found respect for Theon.

How does that work?

I'm glad you asked. Basically it boils down to how both Theon and Joffery have done horrible things, but Theon does them for human reasons.

 

[Farther than stars]

So my fiancée and I watch this together. After Joffery killed Ros, she has a new found respect for Theon.

How does that work?

I'm glad you asked. Basically it boils down to how both Theon and Joffery have done horrible things, but Theon does them for human reasons.

Well, I'm glad I asked. That is some fine analysis.

It depends really... Did you like that scene because you see Theon suffer or did you like it for another reason? If it's the first, seek professional help. If the other reason is because you enjoy the Bastard of Bolton's glee, then see 'first'. If any other, you can rest easy, because then you're probably not a delusional psychopath at all.

I don't hate Theon nor enjoy the Bastard (although I like them both as characters), so it's probably not that.
I think it's because of the mind games involved, not the actual physical torture. I loved it even in the book because it completely changed Theon's psyche. Although we don't see the actual torture in the books, just the aftermath.

So... basically this puts you on the level of psychopath roughly equivalent to Jigsaw, yes?

 

[Winterbird]

So... basically this puts you on the level of psychopath roughly equivalent to Jigsaw, yes?

I supppose it does. I think I just learned something about myself. Excuse me, I want to go play a game...

 

[cricket chirps]

Here's my take on Littlefinger's ladder. He sees chaos as an opportunity. The more chaos he can unleash, the power more he can grab. He revels in the uncertainty. Some people can't handle the chaos, the constantly shifting political landscapes. They stumble and fall off the ladder.

This is another instance of the difference between Varys and Littlefinger. Varys wants what is best for the 'realm'. He wants stability. In an earlier episode, Varys notes that Littlefinger would see the whole world burn if it gives him more power. Another website described Littlefinger as the Joker from Dark Knight, with the added distinction of wanting money and power as well.

This is exactly how I took the scene as well, I must be wrong about the following but i felt it was bluntly obvious/honest with him. I felt the point was clear ._. to the point where it kind of annoyed me that all three of them didn't understand it. As for the montage it showed how things were going wrong for every as the chaos of it all affected their plans, and yet Baelish was doing better than he ever has.