ESRB to Valve: Mind Your Fingers - UPDATED

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Cleverpun

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Internet Kraken said:
Plinglebob said:
obisean said:
Plinglebob said:
I doubt that ESRB care about the number of fingers, but more the fact that swearing of any kind is pretty much banned in any sort of advertising and the 2 finger gesture in Europe is fairly bad (not sure about the US though)
In the US it literally signals the number 2. We don't blow such things out of proportion here. There are very few gestures here that really piss us off.

EDIT: Or peace. It can signal peace.
If the palm is facing outward (such as the Peace sign) then we have no problem with it. The story goes that it became offensive because they are the 2 fingers used to pull a longbow and the French would cut them off any british archers they captured. The British would then stick them up at the French to annoy them showing they still have the fingers and could still shoot.

The best comparison would be a company using a hand sticking its middle finger up and thinking thats acceptable.
If this is true then this all makes a lot more sense and is perfectly reasonable.
While I (an American) am somewhat aware of rude European gestures (this one included), most Americans are less so.

I wasn't aware the ESRB was so culturally sensitive (or even culturally aware). Considering it's a Canadian/American organization, and they misread OUR culture often enough, then why are they suddenly getting uptight about something like this?
 

MercurySteam

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Apr 11, 2008
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Malygris said:
For the record, I prefer the look of the image with all fingers attached, but that doesn't stop the whole thing from appearing just a wee bit silly on the surface.
Same, i like the image they're currently using, but the ESRB just handed Valve a plate of bullshit on this one.
 

Megacherv

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Caliostro said:
Why does anyone even CARE about the retards at the ESRB? Why aren't we showing THEM the middle finger?

They're a completely useless entity. If anything they're a cancerous growth on the gaming world...
because someone needs to try and make sure that kids aren't playing games that they shouldn't do, although it is futile because stupid parents buy them thinking it's a fucking difficulty rating...

It's the fact that it's an offensive gesture (v-sign) on the cover, on posters, web banners etc. that can be seen by the youth, which is infuential. The original L4D cover wasn't as bad because it didn't influence kids to bite their thumb off.
 

Kevvers

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gmer412 said:
Plinglebob said:
If the palm is facing outward (such as the Peace sign) then we have no problem with it. The story goes that it became offensive because they are the 2 fingers used to pull a longbow and the French would cut them off any british archers they captured. The British would then stick them up at the French to annoy them showing they still have the fingers and could still shoot.

The best comparison would be a company using a hand sticking its middle finger up and thinking that's acceptable.
So if the British created the symbol to annoy the French, then why is it offensive in Britain?
Seems like France would have a much bigger problem with it. Also, the ESRB is American, so why would they have a problem with a symbol which is offensive overseas? Does not make much sense to me...

@ ESRB haters: It might seem stupid, but it actually does more good than bad. It's one of the reasons we don't have MORE of these stupid parent-sues-game-company-for-ruining-child cases. Smart parents know to at least read the rating, because otherwise they might not know that a game with a generic-sounding title (like Prototype, for example) is actually pretty violent.
Well, as the story goes it was the ye olde archers letting those frenchies know that they were NOOBS and were going to be PWNED. So, yeah it would be offensive to anyone who knew what it meant and I guess still is, although now it is more synonymous with punks like Johnny Rotten giving two fingers to the establishment, I guess. Also, Steven Fry said the archer thing was fallacious, invented, never actually happened.

Although, as stated by other posters, it almost certainly has to do with the censors being squeamish about human bodily deformation and I really doubt that their reasons for telling them to change it had anything to do with offending us British (like they give a shit about that)- and it doesn't really anyway, rather it just elicits a few sniggers.
 

pirateninj4

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Who cares: It's just a poster. It's not like they've demeaned the gameplay or the game, and you're still going to get all the gore and zombie splatter you zombie killers want, so why cry about it?
 

Caliostro

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Jan 23, 2008
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gof22 said:
Edit: The federal government was going to step and create a ratings system if one was not created within a year.
xxhazyshadowsxx said:
They care because their word is law. They are To videogames, what the mods are to this site.
Again, why is such a system even slightly necessary...?

And don't reply:

Megacherv said:
because someone needs to try and make sure that kids aren't playing games that they shouldn't do, although it is futile because stupid parents buy them thinking it's a fucking difficulty rating...


Lazzi said:
Sadly to do have a use.
Are they completly full of the selves? yes.
Are they over powered? yes.


But but aslong as they can keep little 7 year old timmy from buying, tranny zombie hooker F*ck fest. they will have a reason to exist and wont die out...

Remeber, just becuase they suck doesnt mean they dont have a purpose.

Yeah, you're right, someone should be regulating what kids play: PARENTS.

The only acceptable form of outside "interference" should be a description of what the game contains, no "for this age only" arbitrary bullshit. Because it -IS- arbitrary. There is no reason a 16 year old kid, for example, with his brain in the right place can't play GTA, or ANY other game, on the other hand I'd think twice before letting your average 18 year old dumbfuck near as much as a Wii.

It's all about maturity, and maturity is not measurable in age, ethnicity, number of pubes, etc. Age is just the preferred arbitrary cut off, because it's nice and numeric. People love numbers, even if they're pulled straight out of the anal region.


Megacherv said:
It's the fact that it's an offensive gesture (v-sign) on the cover, on posters, web banners etc. that can be seen by the youth, which is infuential. The original L4D cover wasn't as bad because it didn't influence kids to bite their thumb off.
You know the "V sign" originally was a symbol for love and peace right? Was later "adapted" as an insult.

...But even if it was the middle finger, displayed prominently in the cover for all to see, I think we're forgetting 2 important bits of information:

- There is enough blood, gore and death in this game to make the kind of documentary bbc would make an entire series about.
- If -ANYONE- has the intelligence necessary to play this game safely (i.e.: if you're not a complete idiot/have an IQ of over 50), they are also intelligent enough to not have a stroke over a V-sign...

"OH YEAH GIVING MY KID AN INTERACTIVE HORROR MOVIE IS FINE BUT I'LL BE DIPPED IN FUCK IF I LET HIM SEE AMBIGUOUSLY MILDLY OFFENSIVE FINGER SIGNAGE!"

Hypocrisy is fun.

4guy5montag1 said:
I wouldn't say they're entirely useless...they give people a definite reason to complain about videogame violence in todays society. Whens the last time you've seen someone majorly upset about a T rated game (Bully not included because they went off the idea of GTA in a school and not what the game actually was)

KissofKetchup said:
You couldn't be farther from the truth, in reality, the ESRB really helps the gaming industry by appeasing the über-protective mother bears that reside in Suburbia, USA, who would otherwise take the time and write their congressperson to outlaw or limit violent video games. These congress people would also very likely glady do this, seeing it as a notch on their "I'm a do-gooder" bed post and help them get re-elected.

If it weren't for the ERSB, games like GTA IV and the like probably wouldn't exist.


Granted, I do think that their banning of Valve's game poster is retarded.
By telling them a game where someone shows ass is horrible and will turn your kids into psychotic murderers, but a game entirely about murdering people if fine...? I'm not following...

Then again we have a better option: we could do what any sensible society would do (like any of those exists...) and deal with these people like the half-baked retards they are. Look at them condescendingly, nod, say "absolutely ma'am", and go about your business like nothing happened.
 

FightThePower

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Dec 17, 2008
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The ESRB are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, because the BBFC rate some games as well now and they actually know what they're on about.
 

Megacherv

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Caliostro" post="7.119702.2335668 said:
"OH YEAH GIVING MY KID AN INTERACTIVE HORROR MOVIE IS FINE BUT I'LL BE DIPPED IN FUCK IF I LET HIM SEE AMBIGUOUSLY MILDLY OFFENSIVE FINGER SIGNAGE!"[/quote

The fact is that graphic imagery shouldn't be seen on the cover i.e. can be seen by everyone, and should be hidden as much as possible. Sure, the V sign would be an okay logo to have in-game, but seeing it in-game requires you to be actually playing it, which young kids shouldn't be.

Alright, can we just calm the fuck down about this? all Valve have to do is get the original L4D logo and get rid of 2 other fingers instead, that's it over and done with. Can people stop making such a hissy-fit about this meaningless crap?
 

Andy Chalk

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Nov 12, 2002
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ESRB is a US & Canadian ratings board. The 'two-finger-salute' has no cultural bearing here, so the ESRB is unlikely to be ruling with regards to that aspect.

PEGI, however, may take it into account for the territories under its jurisdiction.
 

whaleswiththumbs

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Caliostro said:
Why does anyone even CARE about the retards at the ESRB? Why aren't we showing THEM the middle finger?

They're a completely useless entity. If anything they're a cancerous growth on the gaming world...
maybe we should... I'll see you all for the planning in the batcave later

I like the gnawed off fingers one, I don't see a problem with it, infact why would the hand be bending down two fingers, the way I see it the hand is reaching out for help of some kind, who bend down pnkey and ring for help? Not that I'm saying I ould like helping out a man with any kind of gnawed/chopped off finger(s)
 

Ancientgamer

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Caliostro said:
While I agree with your views on the ESRB, you have to remember it's not laws. The law doesn't prevent the selling of anything to anybody as far as videogames go, The ESRB just provides a list of the content in the game and "recommended" age. If a store won't sell a 16 year old halo or any other M rated game, it's because the store itself has a very specific policy to prevent the soccer mom demographic from coming down on them.
 

Sparrow

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Malygris said:
Crude and/or offensive language, for example: Profanity, excessively violent/sexual ad copy, offensive gestures (e.g., giving the finger), offensive song lyrics, hate speech (e.g., racial epithets) - This is a possibility except, as has been discussed in the forum, the ESRB is a North American agency and the two-finger gesture is, as far as I know, uniquely English. I can't see the ESRB making a fuss over a regional obscene gesture from another continent and if it is, European gamers should be very nervous indeed.
Why not? Everyone fusses over America. I don't see why you should take other countries views into account too.

The whole world doesn't revolve around America. Deal with it.
 

Andy Chalk

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Sparrow Tag said:
"The ESRB is a North American agency and the two-finger gesture is, as far as I know, uniquely English."

I'm really not sure how much clearer I can be.
 

Kiutu

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We think a government run rating system for games would be horrific...but for all we know it would be BETTER than the ESRB. I am mostly playing Devil's Advocate here, but from what I know, the ESRB is a mess anyways and a more regulated organization could prove better, or atleast clearer.
 

UsefulPlayer 1

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I don't get it.

I mean I look at games like Diablo 2, Gears of War, and GTA. I just don't get it.

Same thing with Xbox Live and not allowing me to download M content even though I have the greatest consent possible from my parents. But here's the thing, but if I pay M rated content, then I can download it just fine.
 

Sparrow

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Malygris said:
Sparrow Tag said:
"The ESRB is a North American agency and the two-finger gesture is, as far as I know, uniquely English."

I'm really not sure how much clearer I can be.
Just because it's limited to America, doesn't mean that it will only be in America. Theres always that internet thing.
 

I III II X4

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Megacherv said:
It's the fact that it's an offensive gesture (v-sign) on the cover, on posters, web banners etc. that can be seen by the youth, which is infuential. The original L4D cover wasn't as bad because it didn't influence kids to bite their thumb off.
Ahhhahaahaa!

Whoo...I love laughin', alright, lesse here...

Now, bitten fingers...it's a zombie game, peeps, a zombie game, what else are the zombies going to do? Would the consumer base prefer an image of a zombie cracking a person's skull open and scooping their brains out?

I understand that removing peoples fingers has been a method of torture and interrogation for quite some time...way, waaaaay back, so, is that why ESRB has brought this into light? Because the lack of fingers makes people uncomfortable?
 

Andy Chalk

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Sparrow Tag said:
Just because it's limited to America, doesn't mean that it will only be in America. Theres always that internet thing.
I fail to see what that has to do with anything but to play along for a bit, are you suggesting you'd be happy having a North American agency regulating content for games released in the UK?