EU Court Legalizes Selling "Used" Digital Games

[oktalist]

Hmm. Well, how would the transfer work? I am not aware of a DD that allows you to download the game files onto your hard drive before you purchase the license, so how would one prove that they are in possesion of the license (the game files have to come from somewhere, after all)?

Alice advertises that she has a license to Captain Bland's Monotonous Adventure for sale for $5. The proof of her ownership of this license is contained in her DD account (e.g. Steam). Bob sends Alice $5. Alice asks Steam to transfer the CBMA license from her account to Bob's. The game disappears from Alice's game library and appears on Bob's ready for download.

I am also skeptcical as to whenether a client-driven DD would even permit this sort of thing, but it isn't entirely relevant at the moment and I have asked enough questions for now.

As of this ruling they can either permit it or expect to be sued. Depending on one's interpretation of the ruling.

Maybe they could argue that the seller must pay a nominal charge to cover the cost of moving some bits from one part of a data server to another. Which would be laughable, but it's the sort of argument they might get away with.

 

[loch belthadd]

I just thought of a way for them to use this to make DRM even worse. They tie your digital copy to your credit card number. When it is sold it gets tied to whoever buys it.

 

[already in use]

The ruling is definitely interesting, but I don't think that it could make Steam&co obligated to offer some kind of resell option. Adding a gift option for used games would make it way easier to manage several accounts, i would't even use it very much for buying second hand licences. Anyway, the chances of something like this happening in the foreseeable future are quite slim.

 

[Zen Toombs]

I don't really respect used games and I lose some for those who purchase and sell them. So I'm left bemused, if not indifferent.

Serious question: why do you not respect used games, and why do you lose respect for those to buy and sell used games?

 

[Rednog]

it does mean, however, that now you can just make a new account for a steam game you buy, and then sell that account with it's pw and email adress.

ok, granted, this was done already since steam first reared it's ugly head to slowly chip away at customers rights, but now it's completely legal and they can't do anything about it.

Uhh the ruling says absolutely nothing about this, and it is still against Steam's TOS.
In the case of a steam account, it is not your product, nor do you own a license to it. Instead this falls under Valve's services. Thus even with this ruling you can't sell your steam account without breaking Steam's terms of service because it isn't a digital product, nor did you ever own it; it is a service provided by valve to access their digital content.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

Alice advertises that she has a license to Captain Bland's Monotonous Adventure for sale for $5. The proof of her ownership of this license is contained in her DD account (e.g. Steam). Bob sends Alice $5. Alice asks Steam to transfer the CBMA license from her account to Bob's. The game disappears from Alice's game library and appears on Bob's ready for download.

I wasn't thinking quite of a situation like that but your example would have covered the one I was thinking of anyway with a bit of reworking.

Having mused on this for a couple of hours I realised that DDs that aren't client driven will simply have to live with that you can sell your game on Ebay/Craigslist/etc.

Maybe they could argue that the seller must pay a nominal charge to cover the cost of moving some bits from one part of a data server to another. Which would be laughable, but it's the sort of argument they might get away with.

Another thing they could start doing is to lease the game, i. e. having you pay a fee to gain access to the game for a set period of time and then offer you to extend it ad infinitum. This would plant things right in the service market camp and would negate the exhaustion doctrine (the copyright one that is, not the patent one), making this court ruling null and void.

 

[Kathinka]

it does mean, however, that now you can just make a new account for a steam game you buy, and then sell that account with it's pw and email adress.

ok, granted, this was done already since steam first reared it's ugly head to slowly chip away at customers rights, but now it's completely legal and they can't do anything about it.

Uhh the ruling says absolutely nothing about this, and it is still against Steam's TOS.
In the case of a steam account, it is not your product, nor do you own a license to it. Instead this falls under Valve's services. Thus even with this ruling you can't sell your steam account without breaking Steam's terms of service because it isn't a digital product, nor did you ever own it; it is a service provided by valve to access their digital content.

only problem with this is that the TOS mean pretty much jackshit outside of the u.s.
there was this case in germany where a guy had bought a complete account of ebay, which was locked by steam later. he sued against it, and won.

 

[Spitfire]

There is sadly one thing I think will go away with this:

Deep discounts.

Why? Discounts are one of the main ways for distributors to stay competitive in the market, and I don't see why that would change with the inclusion of used digital games.

 

[Rescator]

Would be cool if one of the Escapist writers (or the Escapist podcast maybe?) could cover this topic more.
Way back I wrote about this, as part of a DRM article:
http://www.emsai.net/journal/?post=Rescator20100220030119

"13. I'll mention more about the account stuff a bit later, but I'll touch on a particular account feature here as it's tech related. Serial trade transfer. In particular games tend to be traded/exchanged, either someone gifting it to somebody else, or trading for another game. The account system should if possible provide a Escrow feature.

User A and User B have agreed to trade, User A locate their game in their profile's game list, select it and who they wish to trade with and choose "Trade", User B does the same. If this was one of the Users gifting the game to the other it would be similar, except that the giver would indicate they want nothing Traded back.

But in this case a full trade is requested and after User B has clicked "Trade" the details are frozen, and both will have the opportunity to choose Accept or Cancel, this system can be realtime or non-realtime and is easy to implement. The title/name of the game is shown to both in the Trade Escrow, and since the system has validated the serial it can ensure to either party that the listed game name is actually the game they are trading.

Both click accept and the serials are swapped and each game is now re-registered to their new owners. At this point the new owner might benefit from a download offer, maybe a near cost only digital download, or even offer them a "backup" copy of the disc in the mail, more on things like this below."

This was from over two years ago, and I'm still waiting for companies to jump on this, maybe now they will.

Just to point out to the companies is that pre-order bonuses etc. should be tied to the account. That way a 2nd hand owner will have to buy the pre-order extras rather than inherit them. Seems fair right? Also, gifting of games will possibly get really popular with this too.
(giving someone your "old" game).

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I don't really respect used games and I lose some for those who purchase and sell them. So I'm left bemused, if not indifferent.

Serious question: why do you not respect used games, and why do you lose respect for those to buy and sell used games?

I think in retrospect respect wasn't the word I'd use. It's not that I feel less towards someone if they buy used games, so much as I'm disappointed in them and the act as a whole. Being something of an artist myself, it feels like a kick in the gut when people go out of their way to not support you or the creation of the art they seem to enjoy. Money isn't the whole issue, it's that the consumer is saying "I want the art you worked your ass off to make," and video games are fucking hard to make, "But am not willing to purchase it from you or to support you."

The small time guys, the indie devs. and the basement programmers, rely on every single sale they can get to keep the roof over their head and, if they are super lucky, to keep it over their head long enough to make another game for people. The big guys, the ones being hired by the giants like EA, rely on it just as much. While they might seem better off, if their game doesn't sell enough, they will straight up be dropped on their heads, out of a job and ignored in favour of the guys making the games that are selling a shit ton.

People make the argument that games are too expensive, but that's got nothing to do with the guys making them and let's not kid ourselves for even a second; if you can afford the console to play the games, or have the free time to play them, you can save the money to buy it. I'm not even going to entertain the notion that you live in a situation where you are playing these games, but cannot save to buy them properly. It's absurd. I've been there, where money comes in week to week and Christmas is a non-event sometimes, and you can save the money.

That people can actively refuse to support the creation of video games, but still call themselves fans and still want more of them, annoys me. Yeah, used games aren't the catalyst of video games dying, but it's not helping. If people want others to keep making the games they love, they need to actually support the creation of them, not just blissfully ignore it and assume the machine will keep churning out their hobby because other people are buying the games properly. Yeah, some games are and probably always will be made for free, with zero concern for the future of the product. But the larger and especially the big games, the Amnesia, the Gears of War, the Tomb Raider, the Mass Effect--they can't be made for free. They all take a long time and a whole lot of people working very hard to get out the door. People that aren't rich and need to feed themselves and a family.

It's fantastic that someone thinks your time and energy was well spent, that they have fun with something you loved making. If people show me that they like my art and want it for themselves, I'd consider it a damn fine honour. It's just a shame they almost stick their middle finger up at you while doing it.

 

[Zaik]

Interesting.

Maybe Steam could buyback the licenses and sell them to other people sans the publisher's cut, I'd totally be on board for making an account where I pretend to be european to buy some cheaper used games.

 

[Zen Toombs]

I don't really respect used games and I lose some for those who purchase and sell them. So I'm left bemused, if not indifferent.

Serious question: why do you not respect used games, and why do you lose respect for those to buy and sell used games?

Spoiler: A short response

I think in retrospect respect wasn't the word I'd use. It's not that I feel less towards someone if they buy used games, so much as I'm disappointed in them and the act as a whole. Being something of an artist myself, it feels like a kick in the gut when people go out of their way to not support you or the creation of the art they seem to enjoy. Money isn't the whole issue, it's that the consumer is saying "I want the art you worked your ass off to make," and video games are fucking hard to make, "But am not willing to purchase it from you or to support you."

The small time guys, the indie devs. and the basement programmers, rely on every single sale they can get to keep the roof over their head and, if they are super lucky, to keep it over their head long enough to make another game for people. The big guys, the ones being hired by the giants like EA, rely on it just as much. While they might seem better off, if their game doesn't sell enough, they will straight up be dropped on their heads, out of a job and ignored in favour of the guys making the games that are selling a shit ton.

People make the argument that games are too expensive, but that's got nothing to do with the guys making them and let's not kid ourselves for even a second; if you can afford the console to play the games, or have the free time to play them, you can save the money to buy it. I'm not even going to entertain the notion that you live in a situation where you are playing these games, but cannot save to buy them properly. It's absurd. I've been there, where money comes in week to week and Christmas is a non-event sometimes, and you can save the money.

That people can actively refuse to support the creation of video games, but still call themselves fans and still want more of them, annoys me. Yeah, used games aren't the catalyst of video games dying, but it's not helping. If people want others to keep making the games they love, they need to actually support the creation of them, not just blissfully ignore it and assume the machine will keep churning out their hobby because other people are buying the games properly. Yeah, some games are and probably always will be made for free, with zero concern for the future of the product. But the larger and especially the big games, the Amnesia, the Gears of War, the Tomb Raider, the Mass Effect--they can't be made for free. They all take a long time and a whole lot of people working very hard to get out the door. People that aren't rich and need to feed themselves and a family.

It's fantastic that someone thinks your time and energy was well spent, that they have fun with something you loved making. If people show me that they like my art and want it for themselves, I'd consider it a damn fine honour. It's just a shame they almost stick their middle finger up at you while doing it.

That was... a far more words than I was expecting.

Far, far more.

Anyways, I do hope that you know that most people who buy used games aren't doing it to flip publishers the bird, they are doing it to save money. They aren't avoiding supporting the publisher, they are simply going where things are cheapest. It's like how I deal with local food or my local game stores - if it's roughly the same price, I'll buy from them and support them. But if I can get the same thing for far cheaper at the big name grocery store or channelfireball, I'll buy from them, because I don't have a lot of money and I have to feed myself. The funds I can send outside of basic living is very limited, as it is for most people.

Honestly, it seems to me to be quite silly that publishers aren't getting in on the used game market, especially if it is really hurting the big names as much as they moan it is. (Note: I think it's a lie that used game sales hurt big name companies. Serious citation is needed. I do agree that pirating and the occasional used game sale hurts indie developers) All they would need to do is buy used games (just like gamestop and such does) and resell them (in the same space that they sell their regular games).

Anyways, back on subject.

That people can actively refuse to support the creation of video games, but still call themselves fans and still want more of them, annoys me. -snip- If people want others to keep making the games they love, they need to actually support the creation of them, not just blissfully ignore it and assume the machine will keep churning out their hobby because other people are buying the games properly

I don't actually know people who actually actively refuse to support videogame creation. What I do have is friends that buy used games at the bargain bin, where they otherwise wouldn't have spent money on the game. I know that I've bought used games, and it isn't unusual for me to buy the game used for use as a demo for the company. I bought Knights of the Old Republic used, and then bought the entire Mass Effect Series new,[footnote]And the first one for a second time, that time used[/footnote] as well as Dragon Age: Origins. I bought the Orange Box used, and bought Portal 2 the day it came out.

 

[Nielas]

Honestly, it seems to me to be quite silly that publishers aren't getting in on the used game market, especially if it is really hurting the big names as much as they moan it is. (Note: I think it's a lie that used game sales hurt big name companies. Serious citation is needed. I do agree that pirating and the occasional used game sale hurts indie developers) All they would need to do is buy used games (just like gamestop and such does) and resell them (in the same space that they sell their regular games).

Are we talking physical copies or digital copies?

For physical copies the publishers obviously do not have the retail network to make that work which is why they are selling trough stores like Gamestop in the first place.

For digital copies, the publishers do not need to resell the licenses since they have an infinite supply of them. The only reason would be to avoid paying royalties to developers and this would make the developers just as unhappy as publishers are currently with Gamestop. To even make that work they would have to buy them back extremely cheap.

 

[Doom972]

Why not just go straight ahead and legalize piracy?

Because when it comes to passing on purely digital content, there really isn't much of a difference.

Surely there'd be a way of making sure any one game can only be used on one console / computer at a time? The only differency would be that the designated 'owner' would be able to change.

Of course this is all just conjecture, any I have a horrible feeling that as yet unknown DRM horrors maybe be lurking behind the corner, but at least in theory, this looks like an overwhelmingly positive step.

Steam already makes sure that the logged-in user has access to the games on his computer. For example: A friend of mine comes over my house, logs in to his Steam account on my computer and downloads game X. It will appear on his list of games and its files will be located in the "Steam\Steamapps\Common\game X" folder, along with my games. When I log in to my Steam account on my computer, game X will be on my list and when I'll try to run it I'll be directed to the store page, because that game isn't registered on my account. If they implement ability for users to sell their games, they just need to make sure that the games are unregistered from the users' accounts.
The only way to play a Steam game that's not registered to your account is by using an *.exe file that wasn't supplied by Steam - Which requires the same resources as regular piracy.