Nikolaz72 said:
IronMit said:
Petromir said:
IronMit said:
TheBelgianGuy said:
FoAmY99 said:
Here in Europe we actually don't let companies buy our politicians or set our policies. So if a company is close to a monopoly, we bring them down. Hard to understand for a Yank, I'm sure. Your servile attitude towards the divine job creators is sickening.
We just let the EU make over 60% of each individual countries laws instead.
Let the politicians pander to the media. Rupert Murdoch controlling UK leaders for 2 decades.
Pay a random amount to the EU for something 99% of the population doesn't understand.
EU isn't much better then the states...it's easy to see the propaganda machine when you are standing outside of it.
Nice pulling numbers out of your arse?
Even at its most prolific rate the EU would need centuries to be close to 60% of UK laws. That's ignoring the fact that certainly the Blair government in a quiet patch easily outstripped the EU in law making.
The EU may have loads of issues but as a law making body it's really not efficient enough to make it into double figures in law making.for most of the major EU governments.
A bit ironic, accusing me of pulling stuff out my arse.
Being part of the EU means signing up to trade, tax, human rights bills, regulation legislations, immigration etc etc etcc
so your 'EU at its most prolific rate' comment is utter rubbish
http://openeuropeblog.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/how-many-of-our-laws-are-made-in.html
I have no idea how reputable this site is..a simple google search came up with dozens of article.
here's a reputable UK paper:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/8067510/Up-to-half-of-British-laws-come-from-Europe-House-of-Commons-Library-claims.html
Are you even from the UK? Don't you find it worrying we have not got the referendum that was promised by a new centre left government or do you clap your hands like a trained monkey when self appointed elitists tell people they are too silly to understand instead of educating the public to make an informed decision.
Reputable UK newspaper my arse, UK as a whole is biased against the EU (Although at least you didnt use daily mail).
Besides, how the fck is -up to 50%- remotely over 60 percent? (You did pull a number out of your behind) And that was the accusation put forth by the Euro-sceptic party, as the experts (some in that article) themself said it could be anything between 7-15% (Own newspaper over here says it aswell, and Denmark isnt exactly Eurofanatical)
Agricultural laws, yes. Up to 50%, thats due to the fact that... countries dont really care a whole lot for agricutural regulations, youknow why? Because most of those regulations dictates what you have to do to get support from the EU (Without said support most farmers couldnt make a living) whenether they follow most of them is up to themself, although again. Not doing so would result in bankruptcy.
So aye, overall. 7-15%. Not that bad in my book, to tell the truth. I think I might be in favour of a bit more.
So here comes my question, have you been living in a hole for 50 years or are you just not from Europe? Because if you were, you'd notice that apart from environmental and agricultural regulations, some human rights issues and a 1-2% tax. The EU, is barely noticeable in your everyday life, a whole host of people go about their lives not even thinking about its existence, just enjoying how green and humanitarian we are xD
Last two things UK got flame for in EU's courts was.. Handing over prisoners to the US for torture and possible execution. And treating their immigrants like shit.
Eurosceptics doesnt like that because... I dunno, because they are Eurosceptic and use every reason to hate EU using twisted logic even if it makes them look like disgusting shit due to the fact that they oppose very sensible rulings.
30-40years ago. Eurosceptics had a lot of wind, the ones that still exist today. They are a monument to the past, ghosts that refuse to move on. The reason the UK has a lot is because it feels closer to Commonwealth countries and the US than the rest of Europe, which is understandable. Doesnt mean the EU is bad, just means that they are the ones the most against being in the EU as a lot of them believes that Britain is still ruling the sea's and the sun never sets. Not noticing that Canada and Australia have their own thing going on, that India isnt even remotely relatable. And Hong-kongs been given over to the Chineese.
1. the point of my post was to get it through some US hating EU fan boy's head that the EU is not that much better then the US. So bear that in mind...ps.i don;t think the EU is a massive conspiracy there are a lot of advantages to it but also bull-crap
You said a lot of random rubbish so i will try to address them. I put it in numbers to make it easier for you to understand.
Only 7-15% of law then...you want to settle on that?
- an example is VAT has to be constant throughout the EU to help trade. Can't have one country having an extra advantage. Makes sense right? But then it gets silly..the UK does not want to tax all food (specifically hot food that is cooked in a supermarket, bakery ie. Greggs- where pasties are sold hot or cold)- they managed to get it through.awesome now poor UK families can buy pasties from greggs..hurray.all good right? No the EU was not happy...they settled on a ' if you ever raise it you cannot drop it again'.
The UK now is trying to raise more tax revenue - the chancellor wanted to go after the hot food tax. I don't agree with this and it was eventually stopped...but if he had got it through we would of been stuck with it for the rest of the EU.The next government could not overturn this...even when we democratically elect them to sort this out. Maybe it should of gone through? we could of benefited from that temporary tax increase..but then it wouldn;t be temporary
That is just one example of how simple tax legislation that makes sense restricts individual countries.
2. I initially said 60% (because some politicians/economists/departments said 15%, some said 40% some said 75% and some said 80% depending on how you calculate it and if you include what type of legislation etc - i just picked an average in the hope they would research or stop thinking EU is perfect). You decided it was low then went with the lowest number quoted and will argue it is the most reputable -that's not biased at all...
3. Telegraph is not my paper of choice but they aren't a complete joke. You said the telegraph was not reputable then you said '(some in that article[telegraph]) themself said it could be anything between 7-15%'. irony lost on you? you discredit the source and then quote the source to back your point. The telegraph was simply quoting what was discussed in the commons, and offered a fair and balance analyse..mentioning the 7-15% figure. A centre left paper doing this...can't be that bad a paper then?
4. UK taking flame from EU courts; Sometimes EU courts overturn bad UK court decisions and there are numerous examples of them blocking a perfectly reasonable one. We can count up how many and decides who wins or you can take a step back, get some perspective and realise we are supposed to live in a democracy. If people are unhappy with Laws they can vote on a new government to change them. talk to their MP, start a petition, 10,000 signatures or something (i think that was the number...look it up..don't flame me if it actually 15000 lol) then it is bought up in the commons or whatever branch for discussion... the system is far from perfect and needs to be improved...but the answer is not to allow the EU courts to get involved that may have their own problems.
5. I do not want other voters in other EU countries electing the officials that can directly influence the UK. From the last paragraph where you go on about British Imperialism or whatever.... that's how a typical EU country member voter views the UK...i'm not going to accuse you of prejudice or Racism..i Just don't want people like you influencing UK legislation-you clearly do not have much sympathy for us if something goes wrong ie. If UK needs some tax/trade legislation changed to help our economy.
6. We do not treat our immigrants like shit. There's a reason why a high proportion of immigrants travel through Italy, then France to get to UK. France had their immigration camp next to Calais..so their illegal immigrant's could use the channel tunnel to get to UK.
It;s the the right wing british media that jumps on this, and centre-right and far right politicians that use the issue to gain traction and blame every single UK problem on them.
People are coming here for a better life..its easy to be selfish and have no empathy. People are angry here yes, but no where near enough for the far-right wing parties to get as much support as they do in your other precious EU countries Like France and a Scandinavian (i forget which one).
But when a criminal gets in and actually commits a crime burglary, assualt, rape...we cannot deport them straight away if at all because of some EU human rights laws. This rubbish actually causes racism. Then while the long process is happening the UK tax payer is paying for the court system and accommodation, food for the criminal...great.
7.And after you just branded all of the UK of being racist (treating immigrants like shit) and think we still want to rule the sea's..why would i would want your collective countries deciding even one UK legislation. You do know we might join the Euro...no centre left/right politician here has ruled it out. We don't even have the Euro currency referendum that 2 successful governments promised us. We will have no central bank to print our own money (i don't like quantitive easing but i like the option there). We will have to rely on the EU central bank...like Greece is. Now we have a the German government trying to appease there own people by not helping Greece enough at the detriment of greek lives.
8. ''Euro-sceptic'' that word is propaganda personified. Like in the US they have their own marketing terms pro-life and pro-choice when it comes to abortion issues. Euro-sceptic-Putting people in the same box as holocost denies and global warming sceptics. God forbid we think they have a rationale reason to not wanting further integration into the EU ...no noo they are a sceptic it must be some irrational racism thing. You made this obvious by explaining to me why a 'euro-sceptic doesnt like the EU'...i am a 'euro-sceptic' apparently and I don't like the EU for completely different reasons to the ones you pointed out
