Evangelion 3.0
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debtcollector said:
And just to be more clear on what I mean, here is a picture of around 7 screencaps from Eva 3, and two from Eva 2, that literally answer every question about nemesis, IPEA, and NERV, and the giant flying cross.SajuukKhar said:
Seriously, the Nemesis robots have giant EVA4, along with an IPEA logo, printed on them, have an EVA torso sticking out of them where the pincers attach, and are outright called the Mark 4s, just like Kaworu's Mark 6, there shouldn't be this many questions about them.
As for what IPEA is, it's a UN based Eva group, a counterpart to Japan's NERV, who have their own area inside NERV HQ that is considered autonomous from NERV's personnel, as the pic in the bottom right shows.
They are also the ones who sealed, and later unsealed, Eva 2, and let Mari pilot it, during the fight against the 10th angel, and still apparently work with NERV after the timeskip.
The giant cross was built by NERV, hence the NERV logo on it, and the Nemesis attack WILLE because, as Misato plainly states, WILLE it trying to destroy NERV.
I hate having to do this. I hate it so much. But here fucking goes.SajuukKhar said:
--Gendo always says things are going as planned. Always. It is damn lazy to say "Gendo says this, therefore everything is what he said." Also, that doesn't explain the actual question: Why was it sealed? How'd it get there? Why space?
--Alright. Why did they need Unit-01 to power it? For that matter, what is Wunder? Do we even know? Does anyone?
--Yes, that is the given reason. But it is damned irrational, and ignores most of the given characterizations to have them all universally blame Shinji for shit he had little control over and even (in Misato's case) he was encouraged to do. But hey, people in Eva are irrational, I'll grant you that.
--Where did the fleet come from? Again, where did the Wunder come from? More importantly, who had the resources and wherewithal to form WILLE at all?
--How did she die? "Absorbed into Unit-00's core?" Why did that happen? What does that mean? Why did we have all that character development just to start over again here?
--The Nemesis series moves way too fucking fast and has way too much CG porn to notice a logo, so I'll take your word for that. It fails to answer the real question though: What are they, why were they created, and how?
--Yes. He is unimportant to the movie because he isn't in it. Very good logic. Why has he disappeared? Why would they kill off one of the only characters who seems to understand anything? If he isn't dead, what is he doing? The movie just dropped Kaji with no given reason, and you say he "likely died", which is itself speculation.
--Is it? Because what Third Impact did is unclear in itself. What ultimately triggered it is unclear. Even when precisely it occurred is unclear. I'll grant that yes, we can deduce that in 2.22 it was stopped, but happened to a certain degree between 2 and 3.0, but that is literally all we know. If Shinji was directly responsible, we obviously don't know how. He clearly doesn't.
To conclude: You may be able to answer the technicalities of the given questions, but they don't even come close to answering the broader questions of 3.0's universe. I couldn't care less who made the Space Cube Cross, I care why it's there, how it got there, what it does. If you can answer that--or any of the other questions--beyond "it was Gendo's plan", then I'll concede. Until then, consider this my final word. I don't want to get dragged any further into this.
I enjoyed it. I understand why some would be disappointed by it after watching 2.0, but I think it was a brave and bold decision by Anno and his team. 2.0 ended by giving the people who always complained about Shinji being a whiny, spineless pussy what they wanted. Needless to say, this film then proceeds to shit on that and all the people who claimed that if Shinji just grew a spine and stood up for himself, all his problems would be solved. 3.0 quickly proves that things aren't that simple. In fact, this approach has made things worse not only for Shinji, but for everyone else as well. The entire franchise has reached an almost meta level of toying with Shinji's mind, and the mid section segment of the movie where he has a complete mental break down from whether or not he should ever pilot the EVA again not only sums up the frustrations and vitriol that characters in-universe have towards him, and how he's at a complete loss as to who to listen to and what to do anymore, but it also encapsulates the back and forth debates about the character since the inception of the original series. It's basically Anno giving everyone a big fuck you and I absolutely applaud him for that.
While the beginning may appear to be very confusing, I felt that it was all done intentionally so that the viewer may feel and react the same way Shinji does. Many people complain that Asuka and Misato are grossly underdeveloped, but I think the film decides to focus more on Shinji and Kaworu instead, because their relationship took place in the span of one episode in the original series, whereas Asuka and Misato were featured heavily throughout the show. A lot of people complain that the movie introduces too many new aspects and changes to the world and state of EVA's lore without the proper exposition, but I actually prefer to use the minor clues dropped in the landscape to fill in the gaps for myself. Shinji and Kaworu's interactions were the highlight for me and was what essentially carried the film after the first third. Overall, I wouldn't say it was my favourite of the Rebuilds, but I still enjoyed it for what it was and am looking forward to the final movie.
While the beginning may appear to be very confusing, I felt that it was all done intentionally so that the viewer may feel and react the same way Shinji does. Many people complain that Asuka and Misato are grossly underdeveloped, but I think the film decides to focus more on Shinji and Kaworu instead, because their relationship took place in the span of one episode in the original series, whereas Asuka and Misato were featured heavily throughout the show. A lot of people complain that the movie introduces too many new aspects and changes to the world and state of EVA's lore without the proper exposition, but I actually prefer to use the minor clues dropped in the landscape to fill in the gaps for myself. Shinji and Kaworu's interactions were the highlight for me and was what essentially carried the film after the first third. Overall, I wouldn't say it was my favourite of the Rebuilds, but I still enjoyed it for what it was and am looking forward to the final movie.
I watched the original series and, after much deliberation, came to the conclusion that I didn't like it as much as everyone else and had a hard time following it. The music and imagery are great but the story falls apart at the seams because I cannot take any of the characters seriously. As a recluse with more than moderate social-phobia, even I have a hard time stomaching Shinji's interactions with other people and there doesn't seem to be a single well-adjusted person in the cast. With no contrast between them all and the way the story seemed to make up the rules as it went along, I had no interest in watching the Rebuilds.
I watched the first two only because my roommate happened to be watching them on Adult Swim while I was doing some handheld gaming in my living room. Again, the imagery, music, everything about it at first glance was fairly impressive. But it's the same story that failed to be interesting to me before. I've not watched 3.0 yet, and while I didn't dislike 2.0, I think the concept behind 3.0 might be a little far-fetched. Just reading some of the stuff on this thread is enough to make me disinclined to go out of my way to watch it.
I watched the first two only because my roommate happened to be watching them on Adult Swim while I was doing some handheld gaming in my living room. Again, the imagery, music, everything about it at first glance was fairly impressive. But it's the same story that failed to be interesting to me before. I've not watched 3.0 yet, and while I didn't dislike 2.0, I think the concept behind 3.0 might be a little far-fetched. Just reading some of the stuff on this thread is enough to make me disinclined to go out of my way to watch it.
I've always had sort of a love-hate relationship with Evangelion. I like the ideas behind it, and the art direction, but I'd always hated the characters and the inevitable way Anno would go and screw everything up in the home stretch. It always felt like a show that could have been great, if someone was there to actually handle it properly.FPLOON said:
Rebuild 1 and 2 really did come close to being great I think. Yeah, the pacing was a little weird because they were compressing the whole show into 2 movies, but overall, it was an improvement. The art direction and action scenes were even better, and this time, I didn't hate the characters. Asuka was a little annoying and Mari was kind of extraneous to the plot, but Rei actually began to grow a personality and Shinji finally grows a spine in the end. He actually makes the EVA *do* something, instead of his usual "Passing out while it goes berserk" thing. Overall it portrayed the two characters who were traditionally the worst in the series in a much more interesting, and actually palatable, way.
Getting to 3.0, I think it was... acceptable, but not quite 'good'. Like, I still love the art direction, and the action sequences were all top-notch, but I think the people who say that it felt like only half a movie are right on the ball. It feels like, to me, the series would have been better served being a 5-part series instead of 4. Give us a whole movie about Misato's break away from NERV. Her quest to gather all of these people, all of those ships, and show how NERV started pumping out various forms of artificial angels to stop them. Give some focus to all these minor characters and to the post-Third Impact world. Maybe take some time to develop Mari some, and maybe see how Asuka deals with being a 20+ year old woman forever trapped in the body of a 14-year old girl. Then you can bring back in Shinji and get to the events of 3.0 in movie 4 with a much better groundwork laid.
Honestly, my main issue though was the same one I had in the series and Rebuild. It's hard to feel suitably invested when we don't know what the hell it is that Gendo is aiming for. Or what Seele was aiming for to begin with. If you go *only* by the series and the original movies, you still only really have a vague idea of what the Human Instrumentality Project was, and how exactly Gendo's motives differ from his former employers. I just feel like Gendo's massive double-cross in 3.0 would have had a lot more impact if we'd had some clue what the hell he was trying to achieve and why it's bad beyond just 'end of the world... again.'
But, even still, I remain (perhaps naively) hopeful for 4.0. You've got the symbolic reunion of the original 3 children. And there is still the potential that we can finally get some real answers and a satisfying conclusion. I just hope that Shinji and Rei get a little build-up like back in 2.0. It'd be a shame to have that sort of progress with their characters, only to have them return to their old, unlikable archetypes again.
Despite the reviews I still want to see this, just to see where they are going with this. I'm just annoyed that there seemed to have been one theater showing on the 10th for the movie in my area and I missed it(My week was super busy last week). I'm even more annoyed that there's not yet a DVD release date on 3.33.
Seriously, if the movie premiered in Japan over a year ago, why is it just now getting to the US? How long does it really take to translate a 2 hour film and ship enough copies overseas for a release date?
Seriously, if the movie premiered in Japan over a year ago, why is it just now getting to the US? How long does it really take to translate a 2 hour film and ship enough copies overseas for a release date?
You ask a lot of questions that are answered in the movie... are you sure you watched it?debtcollector said:
-It was sealed because, you know, EVA01 had gone god-mode and almost destroyed the planet.
-It got there because they put it in space, this IS NERE/SELEE we are talking about here, the same guys who cloned god and built moonbases.
-Because its fucking hard to get shit out of space?
-Because EVA01 is a "complete" EVA, and thus, has infinite energy power like angels do.
-A giant flying battleship
-How is it irrational? do you even know how people act IRL? After having watched either directly, or the aftermath of, almost everyone you know dieing and getting turned into giant Eva01 clone things, you would be pissed at the guy who did it. It doesn't matter that the guy who started the nuclear war did so by tripping and falling on the button, people would still hate him for doing it. Stop trying to act like people normally take the moral high ground in those kind of situations.
-And its made plainly obvious Misato still cares for Shinji, which is why she hesitated to blow him up when ReiQ took him.
-People/Nations who turned on NERV after the world got destroyed.
-Wunder was made by SELEE
-The UN/various nation who turned on NERV/SELEE after third impact.
-She was absorbed into Eva1's core because she is a clone of Shinji's mom, and Shinji's mom is the core of EVA01
-Because Rei contains the soul of lilith, and EVA01 is a clone of lilith and thus they are resurrecting Lilith.
-the same reason they killed her in the original series.
-They are evnagelions, again, THEY ARE SPECIFICALLY CALLED EVAS. Seriously, stop ignoring half the shit people say to further this argument.
-They were created to fight Wille, and protect the flying cross.
-They were made the same way other Evas are.
-Because he has no further use in the plot as of yet and they don't need to tell us what happened to every single character?
-They kill him off BECAUSE he understand things and Shinji cant be risked finding out
-He is doing stuff that doesn't matter to shinji, the person the movie is about.
-They dropped him, again, because he has nothing to contribute to EVa 3.0 and shinji's development in that movie.
-Yes, you are expressly told what happened.
-What triggered it is very clear, Eva01, and Lilith, hence why their locations are called the "epicenter"
-We know shinji's near third impact was "stopped", we know that set into motion a series of events that eventually led to Eva 6 being possessed by an angel, merging with lilith, starting the true third impact, creating a bunch of Eva01 clones, which was ultimatly stopped when Mark 6 speared itself and lilith.
All of those were answered in the moviedebtcollector said:
Its there to keep Eva 1 contained
Its in space because Selee/NERv put it there
It "does" nothing but keep Eva 1 contained
Its like..... you need to not only be told, but have a giant graph explaining that the sky is blue in the Evaverse for the same reasons it is in our world before you will grasp the idea.
It's not just yet-another-reboot, it's cool in its own way, it's still recognisably Eva but it's also branching off from the source material - it's not a rewrite, it's a total retelling and a totally different story (from the end of the previous one). It still has Lillith and Kaworu (sp?) and all that, but it's an interesting new direction with a lot of liberties taken to make it different enough that there's a point to it.
Is it a good movie, no. Is it somewhat interesting, yes.
I think the problem with this one is that it's pretty much all setup for the fourth movie. The movie series is trying to create the new ending to the Eva franchise and so has to go in a different direction. Anno, however, went too far and gave us a very sharp change in personality and introduces so many questions that we are just left baffled. The only human drama is between Karoru and Shinji and I already knew it would just make Shinji worse off.
Which brings me to a problem with the franchise, the characters. Initially, they served as deconstructions of Mecha archtypes and the fact that kids piloted them; it illustrated the mental issues from combat and the mindset of certain tropes (tsundere Asuka has attachment and self confidence issues, Shinji is constantly broken over and over with no reprieve, Rei is stoic because she knows her life is basically worthless and so on). Now, after the controversial series ending, the death threats and End of Eva, I think Anno is still of the mindset that the otaku and hikkomori culture are self-isolating and unable to improve. At this rate, Eva final will end just like End; Shinji doesn't grow up and accept himself or anything he has done and dooms everyone, again.
My only hope for Eva final is that Anno actually gives us character resolutions for Rei, Asuka, and Shinji and actually answers what the hell is going on
Note: I am of the opinion that the series ending is meant to show Shinji accepting himself and learning that he can't rely on others for self-validation while End was Anno's way of projecting his complaints about the Otaku community back at them (belief that they only want fanservice and sex (the hospital scene is his way of saying that the Otaku attachment to female characters is abhorrent) and belief that they can't improve (see Shinji rejecting instrimentality out of selfishness))
I think the problem with this one is that it's pretty much all setup for the fourth movie. The movie series is trying to create the new ending to the Eva franchise and so has to go in a different direction. Anno, however, went too far and gave us a very sharp change in personality and introduces so many questions that we are just left baffled. The only human drama is between Karoru and Shinji and I already knew it would just make Shinji worse off.
Which brings me to a problem with the franchise, the characters. Initially, they served as deconstructions of Mecha archtypes and the fact that kids piloted them; it illustrated the mental issues from combat and the mindset of certain tropes (tsundere Asuka has attachment and self confidence issues, Shinji is constantly broken over and over with no reprieve, Rei is stoic because she knows her life is basically worthless and so on). Now, after the controversial series ending, the death threats and End of Eva, I think Anno is still of the mindset that the otaku and hikkomori culture are self-isolating and unable to improve. At this rate, Eva final will end just like End; Shinji doesn't grow up and accept himself or anything he has done and dooms everyone, again.
My only hope for Eva final is that Anno actually gives us character resolutions for Rei, Asuka, and Shinji and actually answers what the hell is going on
Note: I am of the opinion that the series ending is meant to show Shinji accepting himself and learning that he can't rely on others for self-validation while End was Anno's way of projecting his complaints about the Otaku community back at them (belief that they only want fanservice and sex (the hospital scene is his way of saying that the Otaku attachment to female characters is abhorrent) and belief that they can't improve (see Shinji rejecting instrimentality out of selfishness))
yeah,the reversion of charcters was a bit of a whiplash with even Misato getting spiteful at Shinji without explaining (Shinji is clearly at fault but leaving him in the dark will just make him more unstable and uncooperative. I too hope that Anno gives us answers and a conclusion but as I said in my last post, I'm not sure if he likes the Otaku community well enough to give us a true conclusion or if he will just spite us again.rcs619 said:
This thread is almost making me feel like Shinji... like this is a thread version of third impact or something... only no one is outright mad at me and I'm not that confused over the given situation... (Why do I now feel like playing the piano with someone?)Azkar Almsivi said:
Chavendi said:
The both of you... Chavendi and jhoroz... I like you guys...jhoroz said:
Not only did you both sum up what my mind's been thinking about since creating this thread in the first place, but also explaining what I could tell people when they think I'm crazy for loving 3.0 as much as I do (and still do) now...
Also...
Thank you for taking the time to clarify the things that can easy be explained by watching 2.0 and 3.0... I think this only heightens the fact that these movies kinda need to be seen back-to-back so that people can remember certain things that happened beforehand... Now, [most of us] can only hope 4.0 concludes on a note that fits well with the overall direction these movies have been taking... (And, yet, I still feel people will not be satisfied either way... just like before...)SajuukKhar said:
Well, so far, the movies are first made in Japan and then take up to 2 years for them to get a US release... only 3.0 took 3 years instead of 2...Dalisclock said:
So now, we probably have to wait until 2016 or 2017 for the US release of 4.0 to even reach selected theaters...
In the meantime... I do agree with some of you that this movie was like with The Deadly Hollows, Breaking Dawn, and (soon) Mocking Jay... It did feel like watching one-half of a full movie, but then again, just like Azkar, the movie immerse me to the point that I did not get mad when someone in the theater "randomly" shouted "Just kiss him already!" during one of the dialogue exchanges between Shinji and Kaworu...
So yeah, I can see how 3.0 felt disappointing or just down-right killed any chance for 4.0 to even redeem itself for you (even if 1.11 or 2.22 wasn't even helping your case to begin with), but once 4.0 comes out, you can then say that the rebuilds were truly a waste of (your) time... (I honestly can't say how you'll feel, but that's beside the point...) For me, I'll probably be as indifferent as I was after watching End of Evangelion for the first time... (only in Blu-Ray form...)