Everything You Know about Anime Is Wrong

[Frungy]

Okay, a few minor points of correction. Why can I correct? Because I live in Japan, have been living here for 6 years, and speak the language fairly well.

Interesting read. But as a moderate anime fan not much of it really came as a surprise. Although I didn't know that otakus and anime had a bad reputation in Japan. I thought Japan was a lot more accepting of nerd culture than the west. But I don't think it's right to say that anime is the new internet punching bag, replacing furries. I see far less abuse towards anime than I used to, and furries have only pretty recently come in to public view.

Thanks! If you're further interested in otaku and their reputation in Japanese society, I suggest you watch Genshiken, Welcome to the NHK! and My Little Sister Can`t Be This Cute (in the case of Genshiken and Welcome to the NHK! they're both semi-autobiographies)

One needs to understand that "otaku" means, literally, "fanatic". One can be an "otaku" about anything in Japan, and it is not a nice label. I've even heard someone referred to as a "karate otaku". What most Westerners don't grasp about the Japanese is that they take their "hobbies" much more seriously than Westerners. A junior or senior high school kid will typically only have one club, and that club meets every single day for 2 plus hours, including Saturdays and sometimes Sundays. Yes, Japanese school kids go into school on the weekends to go to club. This is considered a "normal" level of devotion to a club, 16 or more hours a week of training. Compare this to the Western standard of a few hours a week for a "serious" club.

To qualify as an "otaku" someone has to generally be so focused on something that they're inordinate amount of time on it. The baseball boys are often referred to, somewhat unkindly, as otaku since many baseball clubs are highly competitive and ask members to come into school an hour early every day so they practice before AND after school. Likewise a kid who spends their entire lunch break reading manga and then doesn't do a club so they can go home and read more manga is a manga otaku. It denotes an unhealthy level of obsession.

Otaku is NOT a nice thing to call someone, and one would almost never call someone one to their face (although school kids do sometimes, but kids are cruel).

Otaku is not a term exclusively applied to anime fanatics, it is applied to anyone with an unhealthy level of obsession about something.

Oh, and anime doesn't have a bad reputation in Japan. Studio Ghibli stuff is very popular and very acceptable, as are anime for kids like Doraemon, Anpanman, etc. Adult anime with adult themes is ... well, some of it is pornographic and I doubt you stand around the office watercooler discussing that good porno you watched last night.

Also, have you seen some Japanese women?

That girl there? She's 22 years old.

As to why I wrote this thread, mostly for fun, but also to give the people I was referring to something to think about. They probably won't change their tune, but hopefully there's a little bit of guilt, eating them up inside when they make these claims in the future, because they now know it's all lies

The woman in the image is wearing an elementary schooler's backpack and an elementary schooler's distinctive yellow cap. In short, she has been dressed up to look like an elementary schooler on the way to school. I think you may well have chosen a very poor image to demonstrate your point about not fetishising young girls.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Yeah, well, no.

If you want to write a complete guide on anime make in more objective next time. A love letter to anime from an anime fan wont convince me of anything.

By the way, 8 of the 13 images you posted picture little kids. Way to go.

Read before you post.



OT: Good Read, I love the part where you slam all the "New Bloods" as you call them. I used to be like them too however I have grown accustomed to shows like the Boondocks and Futurama. Hell even South Park is pretty good now and again. One show that is showing age is Family Guy, I am just not sure why people think it is as funny as it once was. It seems to mainly go for the easy/cheap shots than anything.

I did. Care to expand on that?

By the way, 8 of the 13 images you posted picture little kids. Way to go.

Cartoons can't have kids in them?

wthamireading.jpg

EDIT: dont get me wrong, I'm not a fan of anime or manga either

Wait, I thought anime is not cartoon? Isnt that what the OP is arguing?

And yeah, a lot of western cartoons feature kids, but they are marketed to kids. With anime... Not so much. Lots of kids (or adults with childish proportion, as the OP put it) in animes aimed at men. Huh.

There's lots of kids in Live Action TV aimed at adults in the west, are you saying there shouldn't be or what exactly?

Name one Live Action TV series aimed at adults starring a child or an adult with extremely childish proportions in the main character role. Go.

I'll give you three: Malcolm in the Middle, Modern Family, and The Brady Bunch. Granted, the last two were more ensemble casts, but the kids are as much main characters as anyone else.

Malcolm in the Middle? Ehhhh. I doubt that. Theres one kid under 12 in that show (2 if you count Jamie, who is a baby, and only joined later on). But whatever, I will let it slide. Modern Family, I dont fucking know, never heard of it. Brady Bunch, aimed at adults? Fuck that. Maybe the guys and gals who watched it are adults now, but back when it was made they were kids.

By the way, 8 of the 13 images you posted picture little kids. Way to go.

Cartoons can't have kids in them?

wthamireading.jpg

EDIT: dont get me wrong, I'm not a fan of anime or manga either

Wait, I thought anime is not cartoon? Isnt that what the OP is arguing?

And yeah, a lot of western cartoons feature kids, but they are marketed to kids. With anime... Not so much. Lots of kids (or adults with childish proportion, as the OP put it) in animes aimed at men. Huh.

There's lots of kids in Live Action TV aimed at adults in the west, are you saying there shouldn't be or what exactly?

Name one Live Action TV series aimed at adults starring a child or an adult with extremely childish proportions in the main character role. Go.

HBO's Rome, granted he ages up towards then end of the second season but he's a kid throughout most of it. They also did Game of Thrones which I haven't seen but if it's anything like the books the main characters will be mainly kids.

Rome and GOT? ROME?!??!? Did you even watch it? How the... And GOT? Dude, the kids get about 1 and 1/2 hours screen time combined in the first season. Although you are right, if they follow the books we should be seeing a lot more of the kids in the next season. And lots of little girls having bowel movements.

Fuck, when I think about it, forget about the books. I hope they dont stick to them.

By the way, 8 of the 13 images you posted picture little kids. Way to go.

Cartoons can't have kids in them?

wthamireading.jpg

EDIT: dont get me wrong, I'm not a fan of anime or manga either

Wait, I thought anime is not cartoon? Isnt that what the OP is arguing?

And yeah, a lot of western cartoons feature kids, but they are marketed to kids. With anime... Not so much. Lots of kids (or adults with childish proportion, as the OP put it) in animes aimed at men. Huh.

There's lots of kids in Live Action TV aimed at adults in the west, are you saying there shouldn't be or what exactly?

Name one Live Action TV series aimed at adults starring a child or an adult with extremely childish proportions in the main character role. Go.

HBO's Rome, granted he ages up towards then end of the second season but he's a kid throughout most of it. They also did Game of Thrones which I haven't seen but if it's anything like the books the main characters will be mainly kids.

Ah, sorta and no. Dany for example is no longer 14. Obviously they can't have a child getting raped (sorry for those who haven't read the first few chapters of GoT yet). Bran is still Bran and he is still a kid, Arya is still young. Sansa... not so much.

Spoiler: Spoiler tags. Quote me to learn how to use them.

And then edit your post pronto, before someone (rightfully) strangles you.

Seriously dude? Malcolm in the Middle /starred/ a 12 year old during the first season(The titular Malcolm). Dewey was, like, 7 when the show started. It's just that it started with them being young, and ended after at least two of them had been married, so they weren't really kids anymore by the end of the show. Modern Family: you must just not watch or pay attention to TV these days. It's this hugely popular new sitcom. And The Brady Bunch? Yeah, that was aimed at the whole family. TV at the time was... sanitized, shall we say? You didn't start seeing the kind of stuff that the average person would recognize as being aimed at adults today until the 70's, even though a lot of stuff was groundbreaking at the time. Oh, and here's a mind blower: The Flintstones was aimed at adults. It was the "The Simpsons" of its day.

 

[Axolotl]

By the way, 8 of the 13 images you posted picture little kids. Way to go.

Cartoons can't have kids in them?

wthamireading.jpg

EDIT: dont get me wrong, I'm not a fan of anime or manga either

Wait, I thought anime is not cartoon? Isnt that what the OP is arguing?

And yeah, a lot of western cartoons feature kids, but they are marketed to kids. With anime... Not so much. Lots of kids (or adults with childish proportion, as the OP put it) in animes aimed at men. Huh.

There's lots of kids in Live Action TV aimed at adults in the west, are you saying there shouldn't be or what exactly?

Name one Live Action TV series aimed at adults starring a child or an adult with extremely childish proportions in the main character role. Go.

HBO's Rome, granted he ages up towards then end of the second season but he's a kid throughout most of it. They also did Game of Thrones which I haven't seen but if it's anything like the books the main characters will be mainly kids.

Rome and GOT? ROME?!??!? Did you even watch it? How the...

Yeah, I'm not sure what you're complaint is. It's live action, it's certainly aimed at adults and the main character is a child for most of the series.

And GOT? Dude, the kids get about 1 and 1/2 hours screen time combined in the first season. Although you are right, if they follow the books we should be seeing a lot more of the kids in the next season. And lots of little girls having bowel movements.

Fuck, when I think about it, forget about the books. I hope they dont stick to them.

As I said I haven't seen it, surpriseing that the kids don't get much focus given how they're the main characters in the books. Although possibly I read different books to you because the only person who's bowel movements I remember being detailed was Tyrion.

 

[ohellynot]

One big difference between anime and western shows, or at least it's more prevalent in anime (or anime that's available in the US, at least), is that anime actually ends. Compared to western animated shows (or, really, shows in general), which are either cut off before their prime or continue to go on and die slow, painful deaths.

In anime, things change, the story moves forward. In the west, everything stays more or less the same all the time. While that's not a bad thing in and of itself, the fact that essentially all shows ever do that. Which tends to lead to the first three seasons being strong and great, but most after that tend to decline.

Again, not sure if having definitive "ends" in anime is a standard or just what they decide to advertise more in the west, but it just seems more prevalent from what I've seen. Which I find rather refreshing.

Also somewhat related, for another example in adult animation in the west, Archer season 3 starts tonight. So happy. But... it is a comedy, which kind of re-enforced your point of most adult animation in the west being more comedic...

But whatever. I like to laugh. Plus, it tends to make actual serious moments that much more touching (if done well). See: Jurassic Bark from Futurama.

Do wish there were more animated shows that were more "serious" though. For variety's sake if nothing else.

>Anime have ends< Rumor has it bleach is going to go on for another 10 years or so. yeeeaaahh.
To be honest i'm a massive anime/manga fan. I have like several hundred manga volumes, but i'm beggining to lean the other way. I'm finding I think american comics are better, well more indie comics at least. This being due to the fact that they are mre concice, so they arn't allowed to have any wasted space while manga generally speaking are drawn out as long as they can be. (examples lock and key, neonomicon, anything by Alan Moore)
Don't get me wrong, I still thing in terms of actuall animated pieces, Japan is still lueges ahead. Though I would point out the film a scanner darkly, a waestern animated film which is very serious, dealing with America after it looses the war on drugs, and would highly recommend it.
Also where does the animatrix fit in. Half written by the kowalski brothers when they were in Japan and just kind of decided to roll with it.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

Actually, I already knew about all of that stuff.

I'm a huge anime fan, but I grew up with western cartoons and still enjoy them today, so I still have a lot of respect for them.

Although, I actually have more of a prejudice towards CGI animation (although I love Pixar) and Flash animation used in TV shows and movies. I wanna see more Hand-Drawn, 2D animated films.

 

[Irridium]

One big difference between anime and western shows, or at least it's more prevalent in anime (or anime that's available in the US, at least), is that anime actually ends. Compared to western animated shows (or, really, shows in general), which are either cut off before their prime or continue to go on and die slow, painful deaths.

In anime, things change, the story moves forward. In the west, everything stays more or less the same all the time. While that's not a bad thing in and of itself, the fact that essentially all shows ever do that. Which tends to lead to the first three seasons being strong and great, but most after that tend to decline.

Again, not sure if having definitive "ends" in anime is a standard or just what they decide to advertise more in the west, but it just seems more prevalent from what I've seen. Which I find rather refreshing.

Also somewhat related, for another example in adult animation in the west, Archer season 3 starts tonight. So happy. But... it is a comedy, which kind of re-enforced your point of most adult animation in the west being more comedic...

But whatever. I like to laugh. Plus, it tends to make actual serious moments that much more touching (if done well). See: Jurassic Bark from Futurama.

Do wish there were more animated shows that were more "serious" though. For variety's sake if nothing else.

>Anime have ends< Rumor has it bleach is going to go on for another 10 years or so. yeeeaaahh.
To be honest i'm a massive anime/manga fan. I have like several hundred manga volumes, but i'm beggining to lean the other way. I'm finding I think american comics are better, well more indie comics at least. This being due to the fact that they are mre concice, so they arn't allowed to have any wasted space while manga generally speaking are drawn out as long as they can be. (examples lock and key, neonomicon, anything by Alan Moore)
Don't get me wrong, I still thing in terms of actuall animated pieces, Japan is still lueges ahead. Though I would point out the film a scanner darkly, a waestern animated film which is very serious, dealing with America after it looses the war on drugs, and would highly recommend it.
Also where does the animatrix fit in. Half written by the kowalski brothers when they were in Japan and just kind of decided to roll with it.

Well yeah, some do seem to go on for ever, but those seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

As for manga/comics, well I don't read those, so yeah.

Scanner Darkly is a good example of more serious animation, but that's more of an exception to the rule.

Not sure about the Animatrix. Not quite sure what to make of it. Only watched it once, and it was, like really late/early in the morning. And quite a few years ago. So my memory of it probably isn't the best.

 

[ohellynot]

What I know about anime: There are a whole two pieces of Anime I could bear to sit the entire way through.

Noting that I have sat the whole way through only two pieces of anime, this is most definitely correct and not wrong.

But hey, Anime is just like any other medium of entertainment. It has it's fair share of masterpieces and a lot of utter shit. Unfortunately, I've mostly been exposed to the piss-poor anime.

Yeah you should probably watch stuff that isn;t crap, i'm not critizising you, i'm just saying.

 

[NickKuroshi0]

pretty informititive read although I knew everything you said, it made me feel a bit less lonely and gave some interesting anime to look into thanks.

 

[Weaver]

I read the whole thread and learned nothing I didn't already know.
Do I win something?

 

[Kahunaburger]

Almost as if anime isn't a genre, but is in fact a catch-all term for "cartoons from Japan?" Wow.

 

[Crimson_Dragoon]

Good read. The "anime as a medium, not a genre" is something that needs to be brought up more. There's an assumption that linking anime means you must like all anime, because it's "all the same." Which is like saying that liking books mean you must like all books, because they're all the same.

Also, enjoyed the little Planetes reference. There's a series that doesn't get enough mentions.

 

[sabercrusader]

This was an interesting read. As a pretty low to moderate anime and manga reader myself. I don't watch very many anime or read very many manga. MY list of anime is short: Naruto, Naruto Shippuden, Death Note, Full Metal Alchemist, Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, Rosario + Vampire, High School of The Dead, and Death Note. That's it.

 

[Flailing Escapist]

But... I already knew all that.. Ah! ... Brain.. Hurting... Thinking too... Much.

I noticed the Devil May Cry clip trying to sneak its way by in that one. Nice try, Lady!

 

[Akimoto]

Aw... you forgot Hayao Miyazaki!

For those who dislike mainstream anime, I would recommend Studio Ghibli, Gonzo and Production I.G. I daresay these are among the best.

 

[Berlioz]

My issue with all anime I've seen so far is the animation and many times the way the characters are voiced and behave. Nothing is better than the original, and the originals so far make me cringe, from a bit to constantly. Something about it just doesn't seduce me.

I have no problem with still pictures, my problem is the animation. So far, I haven't seen enough fluidity for my eyes to feast upon. I would like it if you would recommend something that would excel in that department.

 

[Jast]

Ack, weird! When I started reading this, I was jammin' out to "Fly Away" that's in "Panty & Stocking". I feel awkward.

While reading this I did already know some of that stuff like not everyone in Japan likes anime. So, I try to be a bit discreet about my anime watching as far as others are concerned. What I would really like to see American animations do is to make animations that are not comedies and branch out into other genres. It would also be nice if these animations did not last for over 10 freakin' seasons. One or two is plenty for me.

(I thought that was pretty boss that "Shaun the Sheep" was one of the top rated animations in Japan. XD)

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

You know, I've never been able to find an anime I could really get into. I find slim pickings on Netflix and the only one I tried was extremely strange and put me off. (It was FLCL)
I have no idea where to even start and there's *so much* its overwhelming. You seem intelligent enough, Mr. OP, and not the type to troll me with tentacle porn and worse stuff so tell me, where should a complete n00b with anime begin to take their first steps.