Evolution cannot be given. It has to be achieved...

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Olas

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Dec 24, 2011
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I feel bad for you JamesStone, because it's obvious you spent quite some time and thought process on this little essay of yours and it's at best receiving a lukewarm reception. And, while you're idea makes sense and is at least arguable, I disagree.

It seems pretty clear that the main theme of Mass Effect 3 is unification, working together. Your entire job throughout the game is recruiting various species and factions to join forces and help you, mainly by resolving conflicts between them established in prior games. The idea is that by working together each species can offer its unique set of gifts and talents to help out in the final conflict.

If you play the From Ashes DLC Javic explains that the Protheans' main pitfall was that they had completely conquered the galaxy by themselves and never bothered trying to share power with any other races. Ultimately this homogenization made them easy to defeat because they all fought the same way and had the same weaknesses.
Thus one of the keys to defeating the reapers is to

and work together.

As further evidence of this look at ME3's secondary antagonist TIM, he doesn't want to share the galaxy, he wants humanity to rule it single-handed like the Protheans did. And of course he has to side with the devil to achieve this goal. So his evilness clearly demonstrates that elitism is wrong.

Anyway, I think this is the main overarching theme. That doesn't mean however that it's the only theme. Mass Effect is a big encompassing story with lots of different ideas littered throughout. The fact that the ending is about something else shouldn't be seen as a failure on the writers' part. Plus you could argue that the 'inevitable' conflict between organics and synthetics that the catalyst describes at least reflects the need to unify and coexist, which I guess is what the synthesis ending does.
 

Apollo45

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Jan 30, 2011
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Lily Venus said:
Depending on your choices in the previous games and your choices in ME3 that are impacted by previous choices. If you can't get peace between the geth and the quarians or if you sabotage the genophage cure while Wrex is leading the krogan, for example, that causes you to miss out on a significant chunk of War Assets.

I've done calculations, and the minimum amount of Effective Military Strength (at 50% Galatic Readiness) you can obtain from the main missions alone is about three-fifths of the EMS you need to get a second option in the end.
True, but it's still difficult to get that low. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying that you reach a point where you actually have to try to do more poorly than normal to get such a low score. I've found that that number rests somewhere between about 2000-2800 EMS, so while it's possible to get less than 2800 EMS it's right at that border where it becomes easier to just go through the missions and make logical choices than to actively try and sabotage yourself.


Right from Priority: Mars, you learn that the Catalyst has to be combined with the Crucible in order for it to be used. You're told from very early in the game what role the Catalyst will play in stopping the Reapers, and ultimately it plays the exact role you were told it would. Simply because there's more to it than what you may have initially expected does not make it a deus ex machina when you were told exactly what role it would play in the plot.
The concept of a Deus Ex Machina first appeared in Greek theater, where the Gods would literally come down and fix things for characters. From the very beginning these Gods may be referenced, and the Greeks knew very well that the Gods existed in the worlds that the plays were set in, but having one of the Gods come down at the end of the play and fix all the problems was still considered poor writing/performance at best. In the case of ME3 the Deus Ex Machina is that much worse because the references to it are so vague as to be meaningless. If I'm writing a piece I can mention a word all I want, but if that word turns out to be a major, plot-influencing (or in this case plot-ending) character it needs more foreshadowing, referencing, and so on than simply "Combine part A and B and we have no idea what'll happen but it might be our solution to destroying the Reapers!", which is essentially what we got repeatedly over the course of the game. We were told in the most nebulous of terms what role it would play in the plot, and while that may work in some cases - specifically those where you're trying to play up a great-yet-foreshadowed-reveal - in this one it most certainly didn't. A good reveal would involve multiple references, foreshadowing, and the ability to look back at the narrative and go "holy crap, how did I not see this coming?" or at the very least "Yup, I can see where this, this, and this related to the reveal." A simple mention that the Crucible might solve our problems, and that the Catalyst, whatever that is, needs to be there too is not enough to constitute that, thereby making the God-Child specifically a Deus Ex Machina. He's literally God from the Machine, and in terms of the story device he shows up at the end and solves all our problems for us. There was a bit of work to get there, but nothing is really solved by the character, all the work is done by the Catalyst and his neon lights.

Yes, it doesn't have to. As the Catalyst tells you in the ending, Shepard's presence and the Crucible caused it to reconsider the Reapers as solutions to its problem, and it ultimately decided that they were no longer an acceptable option. The Catalyst chooses to bring Shepard before it, chooses to let Shepard decide on whatever option they desire, whether or not the Catalyst sees their choice as a good option.
Exactly! The Catalyst lets Shepard do whatever he wants, but he doesn't have to. And based on his ability to control the Reapers anyway he didn't have any reason to let Shepard kill himself for any of the options except Synthesis. He could just as easily have said "Alright, I'll stop the Reapers. There we go, they're flying back into space now." It makes Shep's sacrifice nearly meaningless.

EMS = More resources to ensure the Crucible's proper construction and more soldiers to ensure that the Crucible is protected from damage that would hinder its functionality. If you don't have at least 2800 EMS, then the Crucible simply isn't in a good enough shape to be used for Synthesis - the same reasoning explains why lower EMS values result in more damage to the galaxy.
Eh, fair enough, but if I remember correctly the cutscene where the Crucible jumps in and then flies towards the Citadel doesn't change much whether you have all of the ship-resources or only half of them. That's mostly what I was basing that off of.

And the Catalyst explicitly explains why Shepard would be able to control the Reapers - because they are not controlled by the Reapers themselves. It's not as if the concept of using the Crucible to take control of the Reapers comes out of nowhere...
No one knows what the Crucible is going to do until Shep gets brought up to the Catalyst, so yes, using the Crucible to control the Reapers does kindof come out of nowhere. The concept of controlling them isn't anything new, but again, it's been shown time and time again that trying to control Reapers, or even the derelicts of Reaper technology, with few exceptions leads to catastrophe. It's a departure from that specific theme, as well as the themes of the "synthetics always rebel blah blah blah" rhetoric that the Catalyst spits at you, that controlling both the Reapers and Synthetics as a whole simply will not work. There's a more interesting implication to be read into here, if we look at that second part, that says the Reapers are not true AIs, and are in fact just remote-controlled machines not unlike a Predator drone. But we can get into that, and the implications of it, later if you want to.

ME2's ending is based on the choices you've made in ME2. As the ending of the series, ME3 bases the final choice on the choices you've made throughout the entire series, whether or not you've made good choices or bad choices. All throughout ME3, numerous plot threads are resolved based on the specific choices you've made throughout the series.

Let me put it this way: how should your choice for the genophage cure affect the functionality of the Crucible? How should the resolution of the Rannoch arc affect the functionality of the Crucible? How should any specific choice determine how an ancient, unknown superweapon functions?

ME2 is about gathering an elite team and earning their trust for a suicide mission; your success is based on how well you built your team and earned their trust. ME3 is about uniting the galaxy to overcome the Reapers; your success is based on how well you unite the forces of the galaxy.
That's the thing though; those choices should be visible in how it functions, and except as text and "points" on a screen they're not. They could have done something very similar to the ME2 ending where you assign different squads and teams to do different things as you're assaulting the Reapers, or they could have made the choices more accurately reflect who you saved and how you saved them, but instead all of those factors are compiled into an arbitrary system of points that tells you if your machine worked or not. The writers, up until that point, were very good at determining how specific choices affected things you might not think they would affect, and when everything in all three games is building up to this one point that should be where they put the most focus on how your choices will affect not only the outcome but how you get to the outcome. Instead they spent almost no time on it and you end up getting, as I said, points. Yes, your success is based on what you did, but it doesn't really matter how well you united the galaxy. The 2800 required points to get all of the endings can come from literally thousands of different combinations of points. It doesn't matter if you destroyed the Krogan and the Geth or if you made peace between everyone as long as you get those 2800 points.

In that sense it's not dissimilar from the mining mini-game in ME2. In both cases, you're going towards a specific number of "points", and it doesn't really matter if you get those "points" through strip mining a planet or through doing side-quests, the end result is the same; you get to upgrade your armor. In this case the stakes are slightly higher, but it doesn't matter if you get your points through the random fetch-quests or if you get them through uniting the galaxy, in both cases the end result is the same; you get to pick the green ending (or the blue ending, as it may be).
 

JamesStone

If it ain't broken, get to work
Jun 9, 2010
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OlasDAlmighty said:
I feel bad for you JamesStone, because it's obvious you spent quite some time and thought process on this little essay of yours and it's at best receiving a lukewarm reception. And, while you're idea makes sense and is at least arguable, I disagree.

It seems pretty clear that the main theme of Mass Effect 3 is unification, working together. Your entire job throughout the game is recruiting various species and factions to join forces and help you, mainly by resolving conflicts between them established in prior games. The idea is that by working together each species can offer its unique set of gifts and talents to help out in the final conflict.

If you play the From Ashes DLC Javic explains that the Protheans' main pitfall was that they had completely conquered the galaxy by themselves and never bothered trying to share power with any other races. Ultimately this homogenization made them easy to defeat because they all fought the same way and had the same weaknesses.
Thus one of the keys to defeating the reapers is to

and work together.

As further evidence of this look at ME3's secondary antagonist TIM, he doesn't want to share the galaxy, he wants humanity to rule it single-handed like the Protheans did. And of course he has to side with the devil to achieve this goal. So his evilness clearly demonstrates that elitism is wrong.

Anyway, I think this is the main overarching theme. That doesn't mean however that it's the only theme. Mass Effect is a big encompassing story with lots of different ideas littered throughout. The fact that the ending is about something else shouldn't be seen as a failure on the writers' part. Plus you could argue that the 'inevitable' conflict between organics and synthetics that the catalyst describes at least reflects the need to unify and coexist, which I guess is what the synthesis ending does.
Never saw it this way. But now that I think of it, I believe you are right. So let me correct my initial argument:
"Unification is the main theme of the series, but evolution is the hidden theme". But I still think synthesis is not about unification, because I refuse to believe the only way to be united is if everyone is the same. I think it's a deeply racist statement and I refuse to take part of it. When asked about Synthesis I like to make this analogy:

A black man and a white man are fighting over terrain. They both need the resources and they will starve a little without it (imagine this is a crop field for example). Now, a magical god-like entity arrives and mixes their genes, making them the same skin tone. Does this solve anything? No, because the necessity still exists, the terrain is still there, and the risk of starving is still the same. The only thing it does is taking away all racist implications, and that makes war and conflit all fine I guess.

It's a very rushed, sort of offensive when you think about it, excuse of an ending, at least in my opinion.
 

Eddie the head

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Feb 22, 2012
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Lily Venus said:
Still ignoring what deus ex machina means, still insisting that the Catalyst has abilities that there is no indication that it has, still not acknowledging what the Illusive Man's plans for the Crucible were, still more ignorance when it comes to EMS.

It's a crying shame that all of the people who've actually played the game seem to have been driven off the internet by people obsessed with complaining about an ending they've obviously never played.

A black man and a white man are fighting over terrain. They both need the resources and they will starve a little without it (imagine this is a crop field for example). Now, a magical god-like entity arrives and mixes their genes, making them the same skin tone. Does this solve anything? No, because the necessity still exists, the terrain is still there, and the risk of starving is still the same. The only thing it does is taking away all racist implications, and that makes war and conflit all fine I guess.

It's a very rushed, sort of offensive when you think about it, excuse of an ending, at least in my opinion.
Oh wait, Synthesis is nothing like that! Congratulations, you've completely ignored everything in the ending so you can complain about the ending.
Any point you might have is really lost on me, and I have to imagine others, in that condescending and hostile tone. You appear to be saying that if someone disagrees with you they are stupid or ignorant. Now I hope that's wrong and you're not that unwilling to see others opinions. But your tone isn't helping you to get your point across. It's just hostile and unpleasant. Your not helping me see your point, your not helping the other guy see you point, and with that your not helping yourself. So now I have to ask; why are you using a tone that is to the detriment of this argument? I don't get it? Do you just want to be confrontational?
 

JamesStone

If it ain't broken, get to work
Jun 9, 2010
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Lily Venus said:
Still ignoring what deus ex machina means, still insisting that the Catalyst has abilities that there is no indication that it has, still not acknowledging what the Illusive Man's plans for the Crucible were, still more ignorance when it comes to EMS.

It's a crying shame that all of the people who've actually played the game seem to have been driven off the internet by people obsessed with complaining about an ending they've obviously never played.

A black man and a white man are fighting over terrain. They both need the resources and they will starve a little without it (imagine this is a crop field for example). Now, a magical god-like entity arrives and mixes their genes, making them the same skin tone. Does this solve anything? No, because the necessity still exists, the terrain is still there, and the risk of starving is still the same. The only thing it does is taking away all racist implications, and that makes war and conflit all fine I guess.

It's a very rushed, sort of offensive when you think about it, excuse of an ending, at least in my opinion.
Oh wait, Synthesis is nothing like that! Congratulations, you've completely ignored everything in the ending so you can complain about the ending.
Ok, then enlightn me. I'm sick of hearing you rant and rant without any satisfying reply or racional thought. WHAT is synthesis all about? Please, tell me. Share your infinite knowledge with us poor scrubs who apparently haven't played the game.

Captcha: jerk store. Quite ironic.
 

Apollo45

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Jan 30, 2011
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Lily Venus said:
Still ignoring what deus ex machina means, still insisting that the Catalyst has abilities that there is no indication that it has, still not acknowledging what the Illusive Man's plans for the Crucible were, still more ignorance when it comes to EMS.

It's a crying shame that all of the people who've actually played the game seem to have been driven off the internet by people obsessed with complaining about an ending they've obviously never played.
I'm sorry, but I've explained exactly what a Deus Ex Machina is to you multiple times. I don't know what your definition of it is, but either it's not the actual definition or you're completely ignoring the entirety of the ending in order to justify your own misguided idea of what happened during the ending. The Catalyst straight out tells you it's the brain behind the Reapers, that it made them, and that it controls them. The Leviathans tell you the same thing. The Illusive Man had no idea what the Crucible did - no one knew - so he couldn't have planned for it. As far as the EMS goes, please explain how I'm ignorant of that. I don't believe I missed anything when explaining my thoughts to you, but if I did I would love for you to actually point out what I missed instead of throwing baseless and obviously false accusations out at people.

To quote something you said in the first place,
Lily Venus said:
Can I just say that I love it when the other side can't be bothered to try to provide a counterargument and instead squeals "GTFO troll"?
 

sanquin

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Jun 8, 2011
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Lily Venus said:
I've already seen the one whining about the ending. "Why do the lasers that the Reapers fire create 'explosions'? Lasers don't create 'explosions' and the Reapers' weapons are lasers, right?" "Why does an AI that exists solely to address a problem care about said problem? PLOT HOLE!!!!!!1"
Okay, I agree that some of his points don't entirely make sense. The lasers one was a bit...weird. If you heat something enough in a short enough time it does 'explode'. (As in, rapidly turn to super heated gas.) That is, if those things were lasers of course. The other one you pointed out though is a straw man on your end.

Also great how you conveniently seem to ignore all the very good and thought out points he made in those vids.