Evolution is real. Its a real thing that really does happen and did happen. Gah!

[azukar]

Evolution did happen. Evolution does happen.
But somehow, I can't shake the feeling, that a higher power has had it's influence.

If only reality was guided by people's feelings... Does it do you any good to think that there's a god behind the curtain?

 

[wizzy555]

Scientists don't really talk in terms of facts and theories. They talk in terms of observations and theories to explain them. And evolution is consistent with a great many observations from a number of fields.

It's more complicated of course, but that's a basic starter.

 

[algalon]

Evolution happens every winter. Every year new versions of the same old viruses grow and spread and every year we build immunities and create new drugs to counteract them. If you want evolution, natural selection, whatever that you can see and witness the effects of, there it is.

 

[Kyber]

Why believe in such complex things, when you can just believe that one bearded guy did it? so much more simple

 

[Ziame]

Actually, we're apes ;P

No, they're not the same thing.

Actually we aren't apes we're Hominidae or if you want to get on the Genus level, Homos. But I'm just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse because all of the above fall under the family Primate. ;D

I ain't no homo, matie

/joke

 

[Scrustle]

I've never really personally come across anyone who holds this view, but I've seen it a lot thanks to the magic of the internet. Giving stupidity a global audience. The reason people don't believe it is because they know if they admit that it's right then they have to concede that part of their infallible book of tribal scribblings isn't actually so infallible. They've already made up their mind and have already decided that nothing will ever change it, no matter how strong the evidence is. So they'll say anything to avoid admitting that they are wrong. It could also be the case that they are being lied to by people their religious leaders in to believing evolution is something that it's not. Ironically, these misinformed objections are usually things that not only go against the theory, but would be less unbelievable than the crap they believe.

 

[Ekonk]

Dont they still call this the "theory" of evolution? Meaning its not 100% fact?

Yeah, the people who call it just a consipracy are ignorant, but just calling them idiots is just as ignorant. Actually study and look into this stuff before you make a decide whats up.

Look, you can have a theory and a hypothesis. An hypothesis is "hey, I think maybe animals adapt to their environment". A theory is an hypothesis supported by mountains of evidence. Basically undeniable.

Like the theory of gravitation. It's undeniable yet we have no proof. We don't have a clue how gravity works, but it is here.

 

[Turiski]

*Yes, that was a joke. Cookies all around if you get the reference

And then John was a zombie.

Can it be a snickerdoodle? I love snickerdoodles.

Oh, right. On topic. People who understand evolution: do want. Being unnecessarily inflammatory: do not want. Being irritated and lashing out at people who don't understand things as well as you do? well, I can't say I condone it, but I'm not exactly innocent.

And in the interest of adding something substantial to the conversation: Stagnant's responses actually really good and largely what I would say if I was more willing and able to articulate my understanding of the issue.

A small quibble is that from an anthropological perspective, it's a bit crass to say that non-evidence-based worldviews should have no weight. Particularly when "evidence" is defined in the narrow sense of "empirical, controlled, and repeatable". There's not even a really convincing reason (again, from the weak assumptions of anthropology) to throw them out as predictive agents. However, to the extent that it is possible to compare the predictive powers of two worldviews, evolution certainly holds its own, so the point is probably moot.

And I'm not versed in intelligent design, but I thought that it allowed for the possibility that a higher power "set the initial conditions" of the universe in some sense. Someone with more knowledge of quantum than I could probably explain precisely why this makes no sense, but that's more than I'd expect from a public forum

Oh, and Lonewolf: It's one thing to say "wow, these animals are noticably closer to us intellectually than we used to think!" I think that's a valid conclusion to be drawn from tool-making behavior. But come on, they're teaching their kids to use hand-crafted spears; we're having this discussion using the complexities of dynamically-generated *language*, encoded in fluctuations of waves of electromagnetic radiation, both devices of our own creation. It's more than a bit of a stretch to say "lets face it we arent so far apart."

 

[AwkwardTurtle]

I'm going to reply for no reason and say that, it really shouldn't matter whether a person believes in evolution or not. I mean sure, a person deserves an proper lesson on how evolution actually works, but after a person has learned it I think it's irrelevant as to whether that individual chooses to believe it.

As an insane person, I just want to say that I find it strange that I can't imagine a religious person going on this forum and say "ZOMG GOD IS A REAL THING!" without having a predictable huge backlash from people who believe in the scientific explanation of the universe. However, here we have a person who believes in the scientific explanation of our existence through the theory (is that the correct term still?) of evolution exclaiming that their beliefs are surely correct and the only truth that everyone should believe, yet no one seems to have shown any apparent outrage at this behavior. Which, can be viewed as essentially the same kind of behavior that "fanatic" religious people are accused of. Just a curious observation.

I mean my mother is religious while I choose to be agnostic. While we have obvious disagreements about the existence of God and such it hasn't greatly affected our relationship. We simply have different beliefs about the world. That doesn't really change anything.

Don't mind me though, just the ramblings of an crazy person. Please don't quote me and reply angrily I really don't want any trouble. T^T

 

[evilneko]

I'm going to reply for no reason and say that, it really shouldn't matter whether a person believes in evolution or not. I mean sure, a person deserves an proper lesson on how evolution actually works, but after a person has learned it I think it's irrelevant as to whether that individual chooses to believe it.

It becomes relevant, however, when that person tries to infect others with their stupidity, particularly when they try to subvert science education.

 

[bojackx]

Y'know, that does bring up an interesting point. What if the monkeys one day start catching up? A group of "the missing link" shows up in a jungle somewhere. The societal changes once they gain communication and mental skills could be massive.

'Course, I never claimed to be a scientist, so I suppose there could be some reason they will never evolve further.

Just in case you aren't being sarcastic or making a joke:

We didn't evolve from anything on the planet right now, we didn't come from chimps or gorillas or anything like that, we just evolved from the same monkey creature. So the other primates of today aren't any less evolved and so they're not going to "catch up" to us.

Sure, they'll probably keep getting smarter and may one day be quite a lot like we are now, but that doesn't mean they're behind in evolution.

 

[Xaio30]

I'm just waiting for that one person to read all the posts of you people joking around in this thread and seriously agree with them.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Why are people so fucking stupid?! I don't get it!

In the last two days, I've actually come across several people in my daily life that legit think evolution is a conspiracy, a farce, *insert derogatory name here* etc.

Evolution is a measurable thing that we can WATCH HAPPEN! STOP THE STUPIDITY!!!

End rant. Someone please tell me these people are not the norm. Someone! Anyone!

Share your stories about interactions with people who say its not real.

In some places and communities, that's the norm. The answer? Proper education.

 

[Rayframe]

Evolution is something I believe in, but it isn't exactly 100 % proven without a doubt. When Synthesis comes we'll know for sure.

 

[wizzy555]

how come only we have really evolved to this state with humans all over the world of different colours and styles all related to the same ancestor, but how come the orangutan never did?

You can ask the same question about elephants or fig trees. Some species are more successful than others, some are more adaptable to different environments, some can only thrive in a specific environment.

 

[Aurgelmir]

You know, although the majority of the scientific community accepts it to be true, I'd like to see the people that claim it to be true actually know something about it. The amount of people that just "take their word for it" and not actually bother learning about why and how it is true is quite annoying, it's an interesting thing and you shouldn't argue it's true and sit back and say "science says so" as your proof, it's just as bad to appeal to the authority of scientists as it is to accept that evolution didn't happen due to a book saying so. Maybe if you looked into it you'd disagree with it, not that I do, but people should start learning about the things they like to argue about.

This is why I don't really get involved in Evolution arguments, because I don't know enough about it to persuade anybody that it's true as I can only take biologist's word for it (which I currently do), I'll probably look into it over the summer actually because I have quite a bit of spare time before I head off to uni.

Okay this isn't only directed at you, but your thought pattern as a general argument.

See we all can't be biologists, and have a working society. Just as we can't all be doctors or mathematicians or lawyers.

Evolution inst just an idea that people believe in. Evolution is a part of biology, and biology is a part of science.

If you say evolution isn't real, then you are saying science isn't real. I have no idea how you were even able to post on this board if not for science.

You see guys, science isn't just a bunch of people in white coats who think "oh what if man was once a monkey!? That's sound plausible", no science needs to prove that there is a link between monkey and human.
But we can't all go out and learn everything there is to know abut biology just so we can say "yeah those smart guys in lab coats were right".

That said, I know enough about biology to see that it is the only theory on how humans came to exist out there. And no creationism isn't a theory, it is a hypothesis at best.

Most of the time I see that people who are against evolution use poor understanding of biology to show how flawed it is.
You see, you can not disprove science without knowledge of said science, but you don't need to know everything about said science to know it is true.

Think it is time for me to stop ranting

 

[Dfskelleton]

Yeah, my initial reaction. I've already seen enough flame to boil the Atlantic Ocean.

OT: Yeah, we could have originated from Monkeys, and maybe we didn't, but honestly, I don't care. Seriously. I fail to see why it's such a pressing issue to so many people, because it's something we have little to no control over. Maybe you have to be one of those people obsessed with discovering where we came from, but I've never bothered, because I feel that I have more relevant and important things to do than ponder the past of my species.
If someone came out tomorrow with sure-fire, 100% scientific proof that evolution is 100% factual (and it might as well be), I'll say "Okay" and not give it a second thought.

EDIT: Finally! The Justin Bieber curse has been lifted from this site!

 

[Jonluw]

I don't know... I honestly don't know if we can say that. The word 'Evolution' carries rhetorical and historical weight, it means to move forword, to be self generated in some way. We haven't been looking for evolutionary development in creatures long enough to substantiait a claim like that. Just the other day I was talking to this guy who held a threoy of de-evolution. He said that the evidence we have for evolution could also be pluged into a model for a kind of 'devolution' of life. That the world is noticlibly loseing genetic info in the form of biodiversity.

That's a common misconception.
Evolution isn't moving in any particular direction. Species are at all times going through natural selection to be well adapted to the current environment they live in. Whether they become more complex, stay completely stationary, or become less complex is irrelevant. It's still evolution and natural selection.
It doesn't go against natural selection either when species go extinct and we're losing biodiversity.
Often, though, it happens through a different process than natural selection. For example, the dinosaurs went extinct from something like a meteor strike. They didn't evolve out of existence.

I recommend checking out potholer54's videos on youtube for more information on the subjects.
http://www.youtube.com/user/potholer54/videos?sort=dd&view=0&page=3

Evolution and Natural Selection are both theories.

Evolution is the random "mutation" of DNA which causes tiny differences in a species.
Natural selection is when the new DNA is put to the test. It often falls within the common understanding of "evolution."

They are both recognised by the peer reviewed scientific community as separate theories.

I'm not sure I agree with that.
As far as my knowledge goes, evolution means change, and that's all it denotes: the observed change in a dog, bacteria, banana or whatever.

From what I understand, the random mutations of DNA is part of the theory of natural selection. Indeed, the very basis of it.
Evolution, meanwhile, is the observable change these mutations lead to after natural selection has run its course, not the random mutations themselves.

 

[AwkwardTurtle]

I'm going to reply for no reason and say that, it really shouldn't matter whether a person believes in evolution or not. I mean sure, a person deserves an proper lesson on how evolution actually works, but after a person has learned it I think it's irrelevant as to whether that individual chooses to believe it.

It becomes relevant, however, when that person tries to infect others with their stupidity, particularly when they try to subvert science education.

Well, I wouldn't call choosing not to believe in evolution "stupidity" if it's an educated decision. Like I said, I'm all for the bare minimum of teaching evolution. However, that's where any sort of societal intervention should end though in my personal opinion. If after being taught the theory of evolution an individual chooses to not believe it I think that's perfectly fine. I think the assumption being made here is that because someone doesn't believe in the theory of evolution they will automatically be opposed to it being taught to others.

My point being that it should be perfectly fine for two people to happily co-exist while having different beliefs about the world. I'm not saying that there aren't people who don't believe in evolution and try to get it banned. These are people I do not support on the simple basis that they're trying to stop freedom of speech. However, I would argue that it's perfectly fine for a person to not believe in evolution and not have this crusader-like fervor to have everyone believe in evolution.

In a way I just find it a bit rude to live with the attitude of "Evolution is the one truth and everything else is wrong. If you believe in something else you must be stupid!" I thought it might be interesting to present an alternative view-point.