I think it's safe to assume that being in the military fucks you up for life... plus it doesn't help that most recruits aren't those with the highest amount of brain power.
I think the only reason you hold this opinion is to make yourself feel better.
People in the armed forces are generally respected and you're clearly not in the armed forces. You take this one ridiculous exception and with no further inquiry decide that "people who join the army are dumbshits and army life WILL fuck them up".
You have to be kidding me.
Don't give this guy any excuses, if he has PTSD I'll wait until a doctor tells me he does, if the army fucked him up, I'll wait till I hear that. If the nature of this videogame somehow caused this (which I doubt) then I'll wait for proof. I'm not giving someone who maims/cripples a child any excuses.
To be fair, I just wanted to go the "Fox News way"... Take something unrelated like you put it so nicely here and well, blow it out of proportions.
I don't say this to make myself feel better, I've seen someone in my family get changed by his career path... Low grades in school, verbally abused all his life... didn't see much of a future except sign up for the "only" job that will take you no questions asked.
In other words, you didn't read my post. I never said there was any proof he had PTSD, only that it's a likely cause. The media only jumps on the PTSD bandwagon when it's diagnosed, for fear of reprisals regarding lack of proof.
The fact remains that most cases of PTSD in soldiers go undiagnosed.
Sorry, I had to run out of here for an appointment earlier and meant to say that I am not criticizing you. Just the habits of people here to immediately jump on whatever one single news article says at face value without any thought to other sides and without taking the time to really look into anything. They are so quick to dismiss the video game part of it and to immediately jump on the military part, both of which are scapegoats for the media. Since I spent 2 hours looking up this guy and have not seen a single mention of PTSD or stress or anything wrong with him, he was such a nice guy, either he hid it very well which means he is still responsible or he really did just crack and it has little to do with video games or the military. I just don't agree with taking the next scapegoat of "oh it was the military". We have hundreds of thousands of people in the military and guess what? They are fine people. We have hundreds of thousands of people gaming and guess what? They are also fine people. There are bound to be not so fine people in each group but it is not a basis to judge them on, at some point people have to be responsible for themselves and accountable for themselves regardless of what excuses they would like to use. At some point if something was wrong with him is he responsible to speak up and take action. From what I have read the other children in the house feared him, that makes me very concerned. I am not so sure that his girlfriend didn't go along with him because she feared him as well. Yea, I question her involvement in this. It isn't a call I can make but from the additional information that I have researched there was something else going on and I don't think you can blame video games or the military for it. All they would need for a quote on the PTSD matter is one person saying "oh he came back different from the war", that is not out there. Not even on the innocence site that all but looks pretty abandoned to me. Seriously, if I get accused wrongly of something, someone better be posting shit every day.
If there is such an issue with PTSD overall not being reported then I think that is something the media should look into rather than just scapegoating 2 groups of people for this. But that would involve someone getting involved with and proving something rather than just pointing fingers. And we all certainly find the finger pointing more exciting than actually working to fix anything.
loc978 said:
So... you're angry at a general feeling on this board, and the fact that people are prone to jumping to conclusions without proof? What of your conclusion that "He's just a fucked up person"? Does not a "fucked up person" have a cause for being fucked up, or do you just not give a damn about the cause, as long as punishment is metered out for crime?
I am saying that after reading into it further it doesn't appear to be related to a video game or the military. PTSD would have made a great defense for him yet it was not mentioned. That is a huge clue right there along with his superior office saying what a nice guy he was. Sometimes people do just snap. Sometimes people have anger issues that they do not show in public. Something else is going on and I am going to say again as I usually do here, people need to quit jumping on the media bandwagon no matter what it says. It is always twisted to be something other than it really is. Sometimes all you can get is other clues to what they are not saying but you need to figure it out for yourself and not be led by the nose by people that you know twist things. You are not going to find out the inner workings of his psyche through a news report. He has been judged by 12 of his peers, regardless of the causes and whys, he is guilty. Sometimes the causes and whys DO NOT EXIST and rarely are they an adequate answer to the question. There is no acceptable reason or excuse to beat and stomp an 8 year old nearly to death.
What does it take to quit blaming things and groups and put blame and responsibility on the people that take the actions?
At what point do you sympathize with the victim rather than try to make excuses for the perpetrator?
This is an unfortunate case, though I am inclined to take everything from the Daily Mail with mountains of salt. I would like to know if the soldier has been previously diagnosed with any mental problems, like PTSD or something like that.
Sad thing is I'm sure this is exactly what the people will wrongly do. Foget the fact that this guy probably was offing arabs like a crapshoot and may have seen some extremely disturbing scenarios, no no, it was definitely the video game that fucked with his head. Either way this guy needs to be behind bars, quite obviously.
In other words, you didn't read my post. I never said there was any proof he had PTSD, only that it's a likely cause. The media only jumps on the PTSD bandwagon when it's diagnosed, for fear of reprisals regarding lack of proof.
The fact remains that most cases of PTSD in soldiers go undiagnosed.
Sorry, I had to run out of here for an appointment earlier and meant to say that I am not criticizing you. Just the habits of people here to immediately jump on whatever one single news article says at face value without any thought to other sides and without taking the time to really look into anything. They are so quick to dismiss the video game part of it and to immediately jump on the military part, both of which are scapegoats for the media. Since I spent 2 hours looking up this guy and have not seen a single mention of PTSD or stress or anything wrong with him, he was such a nice guy, either he hid it very well which means he is still responsible or he really did just crack and it has little to do with video games or the military. I just don't agree with taking the next scapegoat of "oh it was the military". We have hundreds of thousands of people in the military and guess what? They are fine people. We have hundreds of thousands of people gaming and guess what? They are also fine people. There are bound to be not so fine people in each group but it is not a basis to judge them on, at some point people have to be responsible for themselves and accountable for themselves regardless of what excuses they would like to use. At some point if something was wrong with him is he responsible to speak up and take action. From what I have read the other children in the house feared him, that makes me very concerned. I am not so sure that his girlfriend didn't go along with him because she feared him as well. Yea, I question her involvement in this. It isn't a call I can make but from the additional information that I have researched there was something else going on and I don't think you can blame video games or the military for it. All they would need for a quote on the PTSD matter is one person saying "oh he came back different from the war", that is not out there. Not even on the innocence site that all but looks pretty abandoned to me. Seriously, if I get accused wrongly of something, someone better be posting shit every day.
If there is such an issue with PTSD overall not being reported then I think that is something the media should look into rather than just scapegoating 2 groups of people for this. But that would involve someone getting involved with and proving something rather than just pointing fingers. And we all certainly find the finger pointing more exciting than actually working to fix anything.
...as well-reasoned as that was, you've missed my point completely. I'm not saying the guy is innocent. He's probably not. I wasn't there, so I don't know for certain. I do know that he has been sentenced. Justice was most likely served in that, but even if it wasn't, it's a moot point now anyway.
I'm not even saying the guy was necessarily shell-shocked. He definitely had anger issues, though. One may come back with "Big deal, anger issues are a common problem."
My point is that any psychological problem in a combat trained individual is a bigger deal than one in someone who isn't so trained. We're held to a higher standard because we're more capable of inflicting damage if we lose control.
Regardless of the type of psychological issue that led to this, if the system was structured better to get help to soldiers who need it, this most likely wouldn't have happened. I'm not blaming the system for the soldier's actions, I'm just saying the system could use some improvement, and this is one more example of why.
JezebelinHell said:
loc978 said:
So... you're angry at a general feeling on this board, and the fact that people are prone to jumping to conclusions without proof? What of your conclusion that "He's just a fucked up person"? Does not a "fucked up person" have a cause for being fucked up, or do you just not give a damn about the cause, as long as punishment is metered out for crime?
I am saying that after reading into it further it doesn't appear to be related to a video game or the military. PTSD would have made a great defense for him yet it was not mentioned. That is a huge clue right there along with his superior office saying what a nice guy he was. Sometimes people do just snap. Sometimes people have anger issues that they do not show in public.
...and those anger issues are less of a problem in a person who isn't combat trained. If your average working american snaps for a moment and hits a kid it's terrible, and it's child abuse.... but the child tends to recover, physically no worse for wear. This is an example of why it's a bad idea to surround a soldier with normal, domestic things shortly after a deployment (and yes, I've read further into this now as well).
JezebelinHell said:
Something else is going on and I am going to say again as I usually do here, people need to quit jumping on the media bandwagon no matter what it says. It is always twisted to be something other than it really is. Sometimes all you can get is other clues to what they are not saying but you need to figure it out for yourself and not be led by the nose by people that you know twist things. You are not going to find out the inner workings of his psyche through a news report. He has been judged by 12 of his peers, regardless of the causes and whys, he is guilty.
This is the part of your argument that I find insulting. You're right to say that people need to research these things for themselves and not believe a single news source without double-checking... but you're assuming that any person in this thread who looks for a cause is "jumping on the media bandwagon". Analyzing the situation for a cause isn't about making excuses for the perpetrator, it's about raising awareness of causes for crime and perhaps looking into ways that it can be prevented in the future.
...this is where you and I disagree completely and irreconcilably. Even the most heinous criminal in history had reasons. Those reasons do not excuse the crime, but they provide insight into the cause.
JezebelinHell said:
...and rarely are they an adequate answer to the question. There is no acceptable reason or excuse to beat and stomp an 8 year old nearly to death.
What does it take to quit blaming things and groups and put blame and responsibility on the people that take the actions?
At what point do you sympathize with the victim rather than try to make excuses for the perpetrator?
All I can say to this is... you're right, there is no excuse. But I really think you're projecting meaning onto people's words that isn't there. I sincerely doubt there are many who take one look at this story and say to themselves "it's all video games/the military's fault". Causes are not fault.
...this is where you and I disagree completely and irreconcilably. Even the most heinous criminal in history had reasons. Those reasons do not excuse the crime, but they provide insight into the cause.
Someone can just simply BREAK. There is no reason for it. There may have been signs and tells that it was coming but no REASON. A deleted game could truly be the only actual "reason". There is no explaining it. If they come out and say he had PTSD you can tell me "I told you so" personally my OPINION from what I read is that he was probably an abuser. Can't take the training back just because he is an idiot. And any full grown man could hurt an 8 year old that badly without training.
All I can say to this is... you're right, there is no excuse. But I really think you're projecting meaning onto people's words that isn't there. I sincerely doubt there are many who take one look at this story and say to themselves "it's all video games/the military's fault". Causes are not fault.
Since many of them blatantly said "military", "PTSD" I am thinking they are blaming it on his chosen career. That is not PROJECTING, I can read. I seriously doubt that even 50% of the people posting bothered to read anything further than that article and I also have my doubts that some of them read much further than the title. Just because you bothered doesn't set a standard for the forum and I am sure you can read the quality of the posts as well. If you think they are informed and thought out then so be it. It is all a matter of opinion and I am not going back through to quote the ones that obviously jumped on the wagon, real life responsibility summons me. So you can go ahead and have the final post as this is pointless on both ends.
Sad thing is I'm sure this is exactly what the people will wrongly do. Foget the fact that this guy probably was offing arabs like a crapshoot and may have seen some extremely disturbing scenarios, no no, it was definitely the video game that fucked with his head. Either way this guy needs to be behind bars, quite obviously.
Thing is, Im not entirely sure, because of course with it being the Daily Mail it might not even have been GTA save file that the kid deleted? It just so happens to be the most violent Video Game out there.... hmmm
First of all I am sure that it wasn't Grand Theft Auto that encouraged this inhumane act of violence. This guy is obviously some coward dick head who couldn't refrain from beating up his girlfriends kid. Now dont get me wrong, I would be pretty pissed off if my GTA save file was deleted, as i'm sure you guys would, but to put an 8 year old in a coma? This guy should be shot, repeatedly.
Now, news articles like this put a bad reputation on gamers, and the developers of such games. Forever in a day this 'media vs gamers/publishers' argument will be discussed.
actually, its a 50/50 chance that they will blame the violence on PTSD, Desensitization or something equivalent because of his veteran status.
Still, even though he is an ex-soldier, he needs to get some serious punishment just because it was a kid.
I got pissed at my cousins for deleting my GTA saves, but in the end I enjoyed the game more because I had to go through it again. Beating someone into a coma over something like that is stupid in its own right, but for something so....... simple as deleting a save game, regardless of what game it is?
Also, its completely irrelevant that it was because of the GTA Save file deletion, the kid could have set the house of fire or something, its still a freakin kid. Nothing can ever provide a valid reason to beat up a kid, especially to this extent.
Frankly, the guy is a fucktard and I'll bet a million dollars he was a violent fucktard before he ever caught sight of a GTA game or a recruitment poster either one. And I'm honestly insulted by the opinion most of this supposedly enlightened forum have of servicemen.
Chris Benoit anyone? I'm sure it wasn't GTA behind that though...
See for something like this, he probably just beat them for no reason since he's a pissed off tool, and blamed it on video games so the media would get a stiffy and he could claim shellshock.
I think Chris Benoit had more to do with heavily abusing steroids than anything else. Steroids don't just make you strong, in some cases, they can make you crazy.
Oh, wow. I'm less bothered by the GTA mention thrown in for some extra attention and the atrocity of the crimes committed than I am by the fact that after finding out what had happened to her child, the mother tried to cover it up.
The mother tried to cover it up.
She didn't punch that psycho in the face, she didn't want to press charges, she didn't even break up with him. She basically forgave him and wanted to pass off her son's injuries like nothing happened. Something like that is just beyond words. Any sane person would be horrified at anybody inflicting harm on their child. The pathetic ***** deserves a jail sentence that's just as long as her beloved partner does. I hope to God that kid's getting a foster family.
Unfortunately, that sort of reaction isn't really that unusual. There are quite a few people who'll stick their head in the sand and cry "he's a nice guy, really" despite all the evidence.
And I have now heard two stories today where an adult has lost their cool over nothing and a kid has ended up dead because of it. I have no faith in humanity any more.
And I have now heard two stories today where an adult has lost their cool over nothing and a kid has ended up dead because of it. I have no faith in humanity any more.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
