Explain to me how concealed carry protects against a mugging

[Eclectic Dreck]

Some 'people' say the US was late on both occassions and only arrived after the hard work had been done.

The French and British lines were months from collapse when the Americans arrived in the first world war. The allies had yet to engage in the most costly battles of the second world war save the Battle of Britain in the second. While the Americans were certainly late to both parties, there was more money to be made by not showing up and simply selling the allies arms. Any who think America did nothing to aid the war before sending people to die for Europe is hilariously mistaken.

Besides, why should America have paid a blood toll in the First World War at any point? This is the part I don't understand. The only reason a European could possible resent America showing up late is if they think that we owed them some allegiance at the time and yet I think they'd be hard pressed to defend this assertion.

 

[vxicepickxv]

1) You can't legally draw your gun on someone first unless they pose legitimate threat to you or a third party. For example, if my roommate sees three young men walking behind him at night on his way home, and he whips out his gun, he can get arrested and lose his CC license

Unless he can prove they are a posing a legitimate threat. It's all about how they're moving, talking, and the like. State laws are not all the same, so it's kind of weird like that.

2) The mugger has the element of surprise. So long as he has a firearm and pulls it on you first, you're screwed. The average person cannot outdraw someone who has the jump on them, and any idiot who thinks he's John Wayne will likely end up on the pavement bleeding out.

I'm sorry, science disagrees with you. More people who draw second are more likely to survive with crippling/killing shots, simply because they're already running with an enhanced reaction time.

3) Once the mugger takes your stuff and leaves the immediate area, you cannot follow him and legally shoot him. At this point, he is no longer a threat to your safety and you could be charged with second-degree murder.

See that conjoiner in there, the and that you wrote. By law he is limited to only not perform the second act as long as the other individual is no longer a threat. He is still however authorized to perform a citizen's arrest. The laws there are pretty nebulous too.

So at what point in this crime is a CCW going to help you? If anything, its more likely to be taken from you along with your wallet and other valuables. CCWs are useful in that they could stop a mass shooting attempt where the shooter has many targets, but I don't see how they are useful in common street robberies or carjackings, unless someone with experience otherwise can enlighten me.

Mass shooting, protecting others, see my response to your second point.

It really varies from person to person. The first thing you need is training and practice.

Tell your roommate he's part of a statistic now. He's now part of the single group of Americans least likely to commit a crime.

 

[Pyode]

If there is a rebellion in the US, which side are the nukes on?

There was a reason I listed several different causes of a nations fall and not just tyranny. Also, the idea that even a tyrannical nation would nuke itself just to get at a few insurgents is just absurd.

As to the spirit of your point. I don't for one moment claim that a few people in the woods with shotguns has much of a chance against highly trained military operatives with the most advanced weaponry in the world, but I damn well want the option to try if the time comes.

Ever worry that some people think it already has, because the TV keeps telling them that a Muslim, Nazi n****r is already turning the US in to a communist state?

Yes. In my nation of 300 million citizens there will inevitably be a few fringe nut-jobs that will act irrationally to benign situations. With freedom comes responsibility and there will always be stupid, irresponsible people. However, worrying about those individuals should not come at the cost of the freedoms of those who can handle it.

On the other hand, I am prepared to (and have) relinquish my right to bear arms because I do not trust that everybody else is responsible enough to own a gun.

I can't change who you do and do not trust. All I can say is that I believe that the majority of people are decent and responsible.

The result?

The last time someone here went on a shooting rampage was 2003 (2 killed, 7 wounded).
The one before that was 1996.
[the US averages ~20 mass shootings of 4+ killed per year.]

Completely flawed statistics.

You are comparing a nation of just under 22 million citizens with a nation of just over 307 million (i.e. just under 14 times as many people).

Not to mention the term "mass shooting" is very unspecific.

 

[BrionJames]

"Sometimes in close quarters, a knife is better than a gun." -Big Boss Seriously though, if you have a CC license and are carrying you should probably be extra careful to not put yourself in a position where you might have to take it out. Also, if you have a knife bring that with you a good hook blade pocket knife looks intimidating and in the end thats all you really need.

 

[Karakasa]

Personally when I go out at night I carry a can of Farb Gel (The uk legal version of pepper spray) although I have never had to use it.

 

[moretimethansense]

I never claimed that everybody in America is a gun crazy loon, but any twit CAN in fact buy a gun, here in England it takes a special kind of criminal to have one (one that pl;ans to use it), in America anyone can own a gun, anyone, here you might get mugged at knife point or even bare hands, wheras in america any low class filth can pull a gun on you if they want your money.

I don't know where you get your information, but America has very strict laws in terms of buying a gun.

We sell them where I work, and if you even so much as make an unnecessary mark on the paperwork, or incorrectly make a letter, you're not getting a damn thing.

You have to be a legal citizen, be background checked, your photo ID has to have information that's 100% correct. Your forms have to be absolutely perfect, along with a number of other things to be able to buy one. If you mess up your paperwork once, you can't even attempt to get one for months without being instantly turned down.

It isn't as easy as walking into a store and taking one through a self checkout.

Then would you kindly explain how every Tom, Dick and Harry seem to have guns when commiting crimes?
And don't use the old standby of "black market" not everybody that has ever used a gun illegally would even know who to ask about getting a gun illeagally, and if they did your country has far bigger problems than I thought.

It really isn't that hard to get a gun you can (of course) buy it legally if you don't mind the wait, buy it off someone that just wants to sell their old gun (don't kid yourself in to thinking every gun owner is resposible), buy it off of those that got their illegally anyway, or you can even steal it.

Also why is everybody having a go at me?
I never once said I was against guns, I merely stated that I'd carry in a country where they were legal.

 

[magicaxis]

its about feeling safe, not being safe.

ps, as you reach for your wallet, be sneaky and draw it with the other hand. or throw the wallet, and as they look, fire.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

Because an experienced gun owner can draw down in under a second, and be ready to put two to three rounds in the center mass of his attacker before the attacker can cause any harm (I can confidently say that I'm capable of this). Even if your attacker closes the distance and gets in your deadzone, having a pistol in your hand during a struggle means you only need to turn it towards your assailant and pull the trigger once (and even if he grabs the barrel, just fire once to have the slide shred his hand). Obviously, this is a far better defense than playing dead, getting your ass beaten, or fighting back with a melee weapon of your own. Muggers aren't honorable thieves that want to take your possessions and flee, nine times out of ten, even if you give them what they're after, they'll fuck with you just because they enjoy the power. Odds are, if you draw down, that will be deterrent enough, since the presence of a firearm causes a paradigm shift from "let's take advantage of the weaker guy" to "this guy has a very good chance of undoing every single day that I've lived"; but if not, well, you've got a gun, and if the other guy is too stupid to run, you know what to do.

That said, if you can't defend yourself with a pistol in the way I've just described, you shouldn't carry it. If your pal there can't hit anything, he needs to either spend time on a range that lets him practice drawing from a holster when shooting, or take a course. [http://www.uspsa.org/]

 

[SmokingMirrors]

I've always thought of the legalisation of firearms for civilian use to be questionable, seeing as it tends to bring more harm than it does good. You say its better to have one on you than not to but are you truelly certain of that? When the time comes that you'll actually have to put it to use will you have the spine for actually pulling the trigger, possibly ending anothers life? If its a fear they have to beat out of most soldiers in order to get them to do it without panicking, what makes one think you'll be able to handle the aftermath of such an encounter? Not only that, but drawing a weapon on a supposed mugger doesn't always mean he'll back down. In fact, it might provoke further violence from him than he had intended to inflict merely out of panic from the sight of the firearm and / or any other weapon.

 

[Ramin 123]

I was mugged once, but as soon as the robber turned around and and away I threw an empty beer bottle and dropped him unconscious, then I recovered my valuables. [Lie.]

Just like hot fuzz....? (Skip to 2.00 mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEfsKOubctg&feature=related)

Woah....

 

[Danzaivar]

1) You can't legally draw your gun on someone first unless they pose legitimate threat to you or a third party. For example, if my roommate sees three young men walking behind him at night on his way home, and he whips out his gun, he can get arrested and lose his CC license

2) The mugger has the element of surprise. So long as he has a firearm and pulls it on you first, you're screwed. The average person cannot outdraw someone who has the jump on them, and any idiot who thinks he's John Wayne will likely end up on the pavement bleeding out.

3) Once the mugger takes your stuff and leaves the immediate area, you cannot follow him and legally shoot him. At this point, he is no longer a threat to your safety and you could be charged with second-degree murder.

All of your assumptions are on the basis that you're gonna get mugged. Concealed Carry makes them less likely to try because if anyone could have a gun, mugging becomes that much more risky. People like your friend carrying a gun actually make it safer for people like yourself by proxy.

It's kinda like countries having nukes.

 

[Ramin 123]

If Australia was attacked, for example, the only people who could mount a defense is the criminal element.

Who do you think is going to attack Australia?

Do they have a massive navy to get here, becasue last time I looked Australia was an island?

If they can cross the ocean in force, beat the Australian climate, RAAF, RAN and Army, they are not going to be stopped by any 'well armed militia' of citizens with small arms.

There's this sentence I saw in the quote section of a persons post.. They were USA'ian, and it went something like.. Europeans may call themselves cultured because they don't own a gun, but who rescued them in two world wars.

'shrugs'
They have a point

I think I can speak for 90% of the Europeans on this website and say that under no circumstances have I ever heard or even would think that any European would say such a stupid thing. If anything Europeans are "cultured" because of the diversity of countries and people...not because they don't carry guns.

And what has world war 2 got ANYTHING to do with this topic, I mean really, come on...troll

 

[ApeShapeDeity]

Ever seen someone get shot? Nasty business. They won't get up in a hurry. Plus, if you're adept with a weapon, you tend to be pretty fast with it... and your average mugger is just some stupid, no hope arse clown.

I'm pretty sure the balls they grew to attempt an assult on you will shrink up pretty fast once you have cold steel aimed at them.

P.S. I've been the 'victim' of a failed robbery. I got the little bastard's knife and used it to rob him. I'm kind of a fan of irony.

 

[SmokingMirrors]

All of your assumptions are on the basis that you're gonna get mugged. Concealed Carry makes them less likely to try because if anyone could have a gun, mugging becomes that much more risky. People like your friend carrying a gun actually make it safer for people like yourself by proxy.

It's kinda like countries having nukes.

I'm afraid that I do have to point out that ones analogy is somewhat inaccurate considering that while these countries are aware of the fact that they yield a nuclear arsenal, these muggers aren't capable of knowing if their target is carrying a firearm. But while you'd think this lack of certainty would discourage criminals from making the attempt, more often than not it tends not to.

 

[Random berk]

I highly doubt that the person MUGGING YOU is going to go crying to the police all like "So I was mugging this guy, and he pulled out a GUN! I want to press charges immediately."

In Ireland, this will and actually has happened. The mugger would most likely win the case too. There was a guy who shot a man that came into his house to steal what he could while his son tried to keep him distracted at the door. He's in prison for murder now.

The best gun to have in a mugging is the onne that belongs to the mugger. This is why knowledge of how to disarm/disable a mugger with your bare hands, and the skill to do so, can be as valuableas a concealed firearm. Of course, if I lived in America I would still carry, and simply avoid areas where you can get shot simply because some thug doesn't like the way you look.

 

[thenumberthirteen]

I believe what happens is you are supposed to challenge your assailant to a duel.

I suppose if a mugger knows people are likely to be carrying guns they would be more likely to carry a gun themselves and shoot anyone who makes a sudden move. At least that's what I'd do if I were a mugger.

 

[The Last Nomad]

Most of the OPs arguements have the word 'legally' in them, but I don't think legality has anything to do with it. If you pull a gun on a mugger (Who doesn't have a gun) he's not gonna think, "this guy won't shoot me, its illegal". He'll be handing back the shit he took before he gets a chance to piss his pants...

But if the mugger does have a gun, and he asks your stuff, there is a good chance he expects you to take out your wallet, not a gun, in which you would have an element of surprise, if the mugger thought you had a gun, he probably wouldn't have been mugging you in the first place. And if you want to be extra careful about it, you don't even need to really draw the gun, you could shoot him through your coat or jacket, so that the mugger never even sees the gun. If you think shooting him is extreme then I would consider you an idiot, if you point a gun at him and he has a gun pointed at you, he's probably gonna shoot you as fast as he can.

Also, muggers are generally pretty bad at mugging, nobody really mugs for long enough to get good at it, they eventually move on to bigger crimes, robbing shops instead.

 

[BENZOOKA]

Coming from a different place, I'd state that civilians carrying firearms (be they concealed or not) is a hell of a bad system.

 

[ecoho]

My roommate carries everywhere he goes except class, citing the high frequency of robberies and muggings of students around our college campus (we get emails about 4-5 incidents a month). But I don't see how carrying a gun in a holster under your jacket is going to help you:

1) You can't legally draw your gun on someone first unless they pose legitimate threat to you or a third party. For example, if my roommate sees three young men walking behind him at night on his way home, and he whips out his gun, he can get arrested and lose his CC license

2) The mugger has the element of surprise. So long as he has a firearm and pulls it on you first, you're screwed. The average person cannot outdraw someone who has the jump on them, and any idiot who thinks he's John Wayne will likely end up on the pavement bleeding out.

3) Once the mugger takes your stuff and leaves the immediate area, you cannot follow him and legally shoot him. At this point, he is no longer a threat to your safety and you could be charged with second-degree murder.

So at what point in this crime is a CCW going to help you? If anything, its more likely to be taken from you along with your wallet and other valuables. CCWs are useful in that they could stop a mass shooting attempt where the shooter has many targets, but I don't see how they are useful in common street robberies or carjackings, unless someone with experience otherwise can enlighten me.

thats why you carry in your pocket so when you say your grabeing your money you shoot them through your coat also in states like mine if they rob you then they are target practice

also you have to factor in the fact that if you have the gun and they dont know about it and you draw they will most likely run before u have to use it.