extra credits: my thoughts

[shootthebandit]

i really enjoy extra credits, hes a cool guy who always tries to remain unbiased and i respect him. I agree with the controversy topic but i disagree with his underlying theme of 'games as an art'. games will never be an art because games unlike movies and songs are functional, similarly a wonderfully crafted V8 muscle car is not art sure its as beautiful as one of monets finest paintings and sounds as great as an orchestra but its functional so its not an art.

and i think its better off not being an art, in my opinion a game is designed to make you have fun, its not some poncy show peice with narrative and diverity. i think by classing games as art it would ruin the purpose of a game. The minute that V8 muscle car is classed as a peice of art it ruins its soul, its meant to be driven in the same respect that a game is meant to be played and enjoyed, if you start judging a game on narrative and diverity then youre losing track of what a game is: sheer childish fun.

 

[CrazyMedic]

but since when have movies lost their sheer childish fun there are still comedies and there are dramas, he is not calling for games to become exclusively art and toss games like boom blocks out back as beneath them he is merely calling for there to be art just as there is Monty python and holy grail and shindler's list, the medium does not need to be exclusively one thing it can be both.

 

[crunchieman]

Why can't a game be both artistic and fun?
A song can be artistic and you have "fun" listening to it.

 

[Firoth]

You play instruments, which is music and art. Why is playing a video game any different? Cooking is considered an art, but, that's functional.

EDIT: Heck, we even have video games where you "play instruments."

 

[Naheal]

Play Heavy Rain, then come back and say games aren't art.

 

[NewYork_Comedian]

Play Heavy Rain, then come back and say games aren't art.

Agreed, if there could only be one game they could show at the supreme court case to show games are an art form this would be it.

 

[Jack and Calumon]

its not some poncy show peice

I can't take you seriously after reading that because

A) Referring to something as "Poncy" can be considered offensive

B) Art is subjective. It differs according to what people believe. I consider games to be an art. Look at the stories that they can tell. Bioshock told a very compelling narrative, Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII was beautifully done and almost made me cry, and The World Ends With You is the definition of art with the most beautiful story, music, gameplay, art I have ever seen and was blown away with it, and if that's not art, when something can move you yet not being in actual existence, then I don't know what is, and don't want to know. TWEWY is the best game on the DS period and if Pokemon B and W (Get it? Sounds like BMW? Oh never mind) changes my mind I will eat all of my sense.

That sums up my opinion nicely.

Calumon: Uhh... Art is pretty? :S

 

[supaflystrikes]

Why can't a game be both artistic and fun?
A song can be artistic and you have "fun" listening to it.

Same can be said for a movie. I have fun watching movies, and in most cases, they'll have an all-encompassing moral throughout them.

I liked Yahtzee's statement:

....Just because games are boring doesn't mean they aren't different to books, and just because games aren't two hours long and written by overpaid chimpanzees doesn't mean they aren't different to films

 

[shootthebandit]

Play Heavy Rain, then come back and say games aren't art.

heavy rain is not a game

 

[Naheal]

Play Heavy Rain, then come back and say games aren't art.

heavy rain is not a game

Bullshit. I'm sorry, it was marketed as a game, reviewed as a game, had consequences for decisions made in the game, had potential ways to "lose", and rated as a game.

It's a game.

 

[shootthebandit]

i respect your opinions but i just cant see a game as an art form. art is something passive eg you look at a picture or listen to a song. gaming is not about that its about YOU what YOU do in a game. some of my best moments in gaming have been down to ME not a preset passive cutscene or QTE or set peice. in a way i would say that gaming is much more than art. its engineering

 

[SideSlyGuy]

Well, I have to disagree with you. I personally want to be able to design games for a living, because I want to tell stories. I can write decent dialog, but I'm not terribly good at describing a place in writing, but being able to render an interactive environment opens up so many possibilities to tell a story without words. Showing a person an area like a movie, but make them feel like they are the one in it. Games, don't always have to bee shallow childish fun; you can make (at least I think you can) a more compelling story if you watch it unfold by your hand instead of watching a movie or reading a book. I'm not saying Video Games should replace Books and Movies, but they should be treated as another medium to tell a story. And yes, there is still room for those little moments when you play a game and just have some simple minded fun.

Also, art is subjective, you can look at a finger painting of a first grader posted on the fridge and call it art if you want. The kid thinks his/her creation is art, wile a guest might not. There a movies made for the children, are those still art? Why of course they are, art doesn't always need a moral lesson or some deep underlaying meaning. Does it help? Yeah, but at this point in human evolution anything crafted can be considered art. Buildings can be art, or just there. Can nature be considered art? I don't see why not. Now I'm just rambling on. In the end it all boils down to: "what does it mean to you?"

 

[lacktheknack]

its not some poncy show peice with narrative and diverity

If that's how you define art, no wonder you don't want games to be art (note that I actually don't know what "diverity" is, though).

Some games are art (Silent Hill 2, Okami, Heavy Rain), some are not (Counter Strike). Some movies are art (Citizen Kane), some are not (The Italian Job). Some books are art (Watchmen, Kite Runner), some are not (trashy romance). Hell, even some ART is art (Mona Lisa) while others really aren't ("My Bed". Just... ew. Also, urinating on the Virgin Mary isn't art).

It's an art form when artistic pieces come out of it. Not all games are art, but you're blind and uncultured if you don't think any are.

 

[shootthebandit]

Play Heavy Rain, then come back and say games aren't art.

heavy rain is not a game

Bullshit. I'm sorry, it was marketed as a game, reviewed as a game, had consequences for decisions made in the game, had potential ways to "lose", and rated as a game.

It's a game.

yeah obviously it is a game, i didnt mean that literally

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

B) Art is subjective. It differs according to what people believe. I consider games to be an art. Look at the stories that they can tell. Bioshock told a very compelling narrative, Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII was beautifully done and almost made me cry, and The World Ends With You is the definition of art with the most beautiful story, music, gameplay, art I have ever seen and was blown away with it, and if that's not art, when something can move you yet not being in actual existence, then I don't know what is, and don't want to know. TWEWY is the best game on the DS period and if Pokemon B and W (Get it? Sounds like BMW? Oh never mind) changes my mind I will eat all of my sense.

That sums up my opinion nicely.

Well said Jack, well said

Calumon: Uhh... Art is pretty? :S

Still a more respectable position then the OC

 

[Naheal]

Play Heavy Rain, then come back and say games aren't art.

heavy rain is not a game

Bullshit. I'm sorry, it was marketed as a game, reviewed as a game, had consequences for decisions made in the game, had potential ways to "lose", and rated as a game.

It's a game.

yeah obviously it is a game, i didnt mean that literally

Sorry, but sarcasm doesn't translate well in text.

 

[Rotting Corpse]

Play Heavy Rain, then come back and say games aren't art.

heavy rain is not a game

That's your response? That's all you have to say to all of the points made here? Instead of backing up what you said originally against what others have said all you do is respond to one post with one statement that lacks all justification.

If you didn't want to have a discussion, why did you post something you knew was going to be controversial in the first place?

 

[lacktheknack]

i respect your opinions but i just cant see a game as an art form. art is something passive eg you look at a picture or listen to a song. gaming is not about that its about YOU what YOU do in a game. some of my best moments in gaming have been down to ME not a preset passive cutscene or QTE or set peice. in a way i would say that gaming is much more than art. its engineering

Actually, Role Playing Games are the ones defined as what YOU do in a game (looks ironically at the average JRPG). Now, by this standard, all classic adventure games are technically not "games", as they only had one or two ways through it, driven by the creator's logic, and the player's only input was trying to figure out the creator's logic.

And if you try to go through with that and tell me that "Day of the Tentacle" is not a game, I'll be forced to tell you to go sit in the corner and reassess your whole life.