Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value

[craddoke]

An excellent episode! I love the nuance you demonstrate in distinguishing between entertainment that is well-done/fun and that which is those things while also being meaningful. In other words, as long as we're being all Greek here, you nail the fact that GoW1-3 share a perfection in their matter but only the first achieves perfection in its form.

 

[Kingsman]

Kratos.

99 problems, but a god ain't one.

 

[Mechsoap]

great spoiler although its not a big spoiler since its logical to assume

Spoiler

if you kill every god in existence of course will the world end, there is nothing holding it together

and good episode, i always learn so much from you

 

[SantoUno]

God of War trilogy, here I come.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Snip

While I agree with all your points, I have a feeling that the story's problems are not entirely the developer's fault. Greek Tradgy by its nature is pretty much sequel proof. Back in the day, story tellers weren't writing direct sequels to anything. They wrote a character or story arch and that was that. God Of War 1 went through that same motion and if you remember the ending, where the voice talked about how for all wars that would happen, Kratos would be the one in control, was meant to be sequel proof. Of course like Bioshock, the developers had to throw out the original visionary and hack it up just to be able to work a sequel in, even if it contradicts the original in both tone and in actual plot. Of course, this does not excuse Kratos's behavior in the slightest, who does not even notice the fact that his "revenge" (that he was warned about, is entirely his fault, and he takes it out on anybody that even looks at him funny) throws the entire world off balance, killing just about everybody on the planet, and leaving nothing with the power to clean it up alive.

 

[squid5580]

Wow...people actually play God of War for the storytelling...Seriously?

Every game I play I play for the story. Every single one.

That is just sooo wrong. Every game should be just start it up and let the slaughter begin until you hit the 10 hour mark and then it is over. How could that not be fun?

^^^^smells like sarcasm^^^^

 

[Generic_Dave]

Good vid. But I do feel the progression through the second and third games just changed tack on the story. The very end of GOW3, left me with a power corrupts kinda vibe (after the first person bit). How one man's thirst for vengeance for a perceived wrong could tear down an empire, even one built by Gods. An allegory of revolution perhaps? Or even the knee jerk "We don't want this!" without offering an alternative.

Kratos brought down the throne with no respect for what would follow, and no concern for anyone. I think too often we want basically good characters, who have flaws but no real fatal ones. Whereas Kratos represents a good portion of the people in history who have actually changed things in the world. And most of them did it through bloodshed and not caring about any motivation other than power, greed or a perceived slight.

But hey, at least God of War was close to Greek Tragedy, whereas Dante's Inferno didn't even attempt literary pretensions.

 

[Mstrswrd]

My only problem with this theory is that the story was always meant to show that Kratos was not redeemable; at least, not truly (which is why I wasn't fond of GoW III's ending). In Jaffe's original idea for the series (which he revealed in an interview), Kratos was basically going to become the "God-Killer," and was going to proceed on a rampage through the rest of the Mythologies of the world, starting with Norse mythology, if I remember correctly. Basically, he would have become so far removed from his original "Trying to be redeemed" self, but the concept of a truly evil character, one who gives no thought to his actions, and only does them because he deems it necessary to make himself feel better, would have, in a way, worked. It would have shown, instead, that one evil is less than another evil, and that the lesser of those two is the best choice.

Or it would have been a muderous muscley man running around comitting deicide. Either, really.


Now, for GoW II, Barlog had a different idea. In Barlog's God of War, at the end of the series, Kratos was to become Death personified; he was to become the Grim Reaper, with his Blades becoming sickles chained to his arms. Essentially, it would be (from what I can tell), both a reward and punishment: He has achieved a feat so great that reality itself made him into an absolute being (Death personified, something no-one, excluding him, can escape), but it is also a punishment, as he is now forever bound to this duty of being the Reaper, and can never find peace with himself. He would be bound to the chaotic nature that drove him to this in the first place, but would be undefeatable.

Neither ending inspires much in the way of empathy from the players, and the one from GoW III, well, "Critical Miss" did a comic about it which stated it better that I ever could.

No matter what, though, I still think the idea works; Kratos, from what I can tell, wasn't supposed to be redeemable. He was supposed to be on the right path in game 1, but by game 2, his insanity was supposed to be taking over; basically, because the gods didn't take away the memories. In GoW II, Kratos is to have snapped completely, not because he didn't get what he wanted, but because he no longer had, as you said, a goal. It was the goal that kept him sane, and without it, he fell to madness.

Simply put, in GoW 1 we control a sane, extraordinarily desperate, and unstable man. After that, we control a psychopath, one who has fallen into the depths of a broken psyche, and one who can never escape.

At least, that's how I see it.


I did enjoy the video though, else I wouldn't have written such a long response to it.

 

[Serenegoose]

This was a great video. I really like it when I hear an interesting examination of a plot, or game theory, and why it works or fails - so I enjoyed this muchly.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I think each God of War game has its own merrit.

-God of War had a fantastic atmosphere and a great narritive progression.

-God of War 2 had a wonderfull diversity in enemies and environments.

-God of War 3.........................It just looks fucking amazing!

Though I think GoW 3 tried to do to much storytelling. Then again, it had to because it was supposed to wrap everything up. But if the developer creates situations where Kratos allows a poor slave girl to be crushed by a door and seconds later he gets all emotional and worried about Pandora, then they can't expect us to buy into that with a straight face.

 

[sooperman]

Having only ever heard about the GoW storyline from other people, I have to say I don't feel like playing the games anymore. That sort of potential lost in order to strengthen the combat of the game play and the craziness of the main character is mildly depressing.

Really strange to think about in such detail.

Been following you guys since the first screwattack video, love it!

Which was called what, exactly? I searched "Extra Credits" and variations thereof on ScrewAttack, but I didn't find any of James Portnow or Daniel Floyds' work. :/

 

[Mr Companion]

By the end of god of war 3 I actually loved how pointlessly brutal Kratos is. As somebody who had played neither of the previous games but merely understands the story fully I found the utter lack of remorse or message quite refreshing. Pretty much every main character in any other story I have ever heard has at least been endowed with some redeeming feature, but to play as an utter psycho who has only one very hard to achieve desire, who simply rips and tears through all obstructions to a meaningless end. Well thats just a laugh and a half. One of my favourite lines is near the start when Athena says "The war between the titans and the gods rages on, and the people suffer greatly" and Kratos responds "LET THEM SUFFER, the death of Zeus is all that matters". I just cant stop finding that hilarious every time I play through the game.

Can you imagine writing this? Its like by this third instalment the new lead designer realised his predecessor has pretty much created a situation where they could never go back to a sensible character arc or non-phycho motivations. So they just let it slide and made as much crazy violent smashing as possible.

 

[unacomn]

Fantastic piece. Very well written and documented.

 

[Hopposai]

I believe what we are meant to experience is that Kratos is so over run with guilty, vengeance, and rage, that he can not be redeemed. They touched upon it with Pandora. With his blood lust and blind rage going on for so long, the idea of being a loving father has left him. Kratos was attempting to save her from her destiny, and with a taunt from Zeus he is sent into a violent rage failing at any hope of redemption. To me this proves that for Kratos, he can not die until Zeus is dead by his hands. To me that was the theme of GoW 2+3. But at the same time, why does Kratos need to be redeemed? He has nothing to go back to and the Gods will still use humans as play things. In a way killing most of the Gods and destroying the world is like hitting the reset button. Keep in mind that his death releases hope to the world. In a way I can see this act as Kratos's redemption. Also with the world destroyed I will be disappointed if there is a GoW 4.

 

[bojac6]

I usually agree with you wholeheartedly. And while I agree with your points here entirely in regards to story-telling, I think story should be secondary to the most important aspect of gaming: is it fun?

Everyone has played Tetris, it may be one of the greatest games ever made if measured in popularity or hours spent played. God knows I'll end up playing it on my phone when waiting for the bus and still be playing it hours later. But it has no story, no graphics, just fun gameplay. I think more games should shoot for that. A game where you want to keep playing because you're enjoying yourself, not because you want to find out what happened, or you want to level up, or get the achievement. To me, that's the Holy Grail in game design.

Best example I can think of in a modern game is Batman: AA. They were so confident in game design and gameplay, they made a mode that is just the two types of gameplay (stealth and fighting). It's pure, distilled gameplay and it's tons of fun. The story mode was loads of fun too and the level design, acting, plot, and all that built upon the gameplay and made it a great game. But at its core was the simple gameplay design that really made the game.

 

[MasterV]

Wow...people actually play God of War for the storytelling...Seriously?

Every game I play I play for the story. Every single one.

Go watch a movie then, read a book. They tell better stories, 100% of the time. Whenever games try to tell stories, they fail spectacularly or, at the very best of cases, deliver a story that's passable enough to swallow. There ARE exceptions but that's what they are. Exceptions to the RULE. Disagree? Watch out for Other M, soon...very soon.

 

[Meemaimoh]

I love you guys for championing what videogame storytelling has the potential to be. I'm passionately optimistic about the medium and honestly believe that it will one day be the best way to experience stories of every kind. It's videos like these that help that happen.