Extra Punctuation: The Big E3
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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ooh, let me guess what he'll say before I even read this.
1. probably trash on Microsoft for all the Kinect stuff
2. probably call Nintendo's new console gimmicky
3. pointlessly whine about Nintendo making mario and zelda,etc.
4. possibly undeserved praise to vita
5. nitpick about Sony and 3d
1. probably trash on Microsoft for all the Kinect stuff
2. probably call Nintendo's new console gimmicky
3. pointlessly whine about Nintendo making mario and zelda,etc.
4. possibly undeserved praise to vita
5. nitpick about Sony and 3d
Maybe I'm kinda weird, but I liked the wiimote + nun-chuck.
Somehow it just seemed to fit into my sitting style well having both hands on the controller, but both hands still able to wander.
I could have both arms resting calmly on the padded armrests of my throne rather than crossed over to a single spot.
I realize some stuff on the WiiU looks like it'll use wiimotes anyway, but regardless I kinda liked the setup.
The WiiU controller.....just doesn't seem comfortable.
I certainly agree that the dual shock and modern incarnations thereof are pretty well set up.
Holding a rectangle just doesn't seem like it'ld work as well, especially when you are needing to hold it out in front of you so that you can see both screens.
Functionally, it might still be cool, maybe make for a faster inventory management system, just ergonomically it seems off.
Somehow it just seemed to fit into my sitting style well having both hands on the controller, but both hands still able to wander.
I could have both arms resting calmly on the padded armrests of my throne rather than crossed over to a single spot.
I realize some stuff on the WiiU looks like it'll use wiimotes anyway, but regardless I kinda liked the setup.
The WiiU controller.....just doesn't seem comfortable.
I certainly agree that the dual shock and modern incarnations thereof are pretty well set up.
Holding a rectangle just doesn't seem like it'ld work as well, especially when you are needing to hold it out in front of you so that you can see both screens.
Functionally, it might still be cool, maybe make for a faster inventory management system, just ergonomically it seems off.
I love how when anyone DARES to say something negative about Nintendo the fanboys come out of the woodworks. Tears. Delicious. B'awwwww!
Anyway. Yeah the TV was the most exciting thing for me too. But like mentioned it was meant as an entry level tv to get people started. The technology should spread to other (bigger) tvs too. I had hoped to hold off for glasses free 3D to land, but this is giving glasses an extra perk.
The ME3 voice commands looked retarded. Let's think about this. I can press a few buttons, like i have been for 25 years. -OR- I can break my immersion by yelling out at the TV and then feel completely ridiculous.
I want to give MS the benefit of the doubt. But it honestly does feel like they're giving up on their user base to chase the casual market. I can't blame them given the money involved, but ow.
Sony: "$2--motherfucking-49!" They actually had some decent games in there too, like Dust and Ruin.
Nintendo's controller lacks dual analogs. Good grief.
Anyway. Yeah the TV was the most exciting thing for me too. But like mentioned it was meant as an entry level tv to get people started. The technology should spread to other (bigger) tvs too. I had hoped to hold off for glasses free 3D to land, but this is giving glasses an extra perk.
The ME3 voice commands looked retarded. Let's think about this. I can press a few buttons, like i have been for 25 years. -OR- I can break my immersion by yelling out at the TV and then feel completely ridiculous.
I want to give MS the benefit of the doubt. But it honestly does feel like they're giving up on their user base to chase the casual market. I can't blame them given the money involved, but ow.
Sony: "$2--motherfucking-49!" They actually had some decent games in there too, like Dust and Ruin.
Nintendo's controller lacks dual analogs. Good grief.
There's already some good ideas coming in. Ubisoft has announced a game with an interesting element to the multiplayer. 1-2 players will use wii-remotes to fight off enemies sent in by the player with the touch screen. Basically, it sounds like it will be an FPS with one controller and an RTS with the other.Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Just running with that idea, why not make Battlefront 3 (c'mon LucasArts, you know we want it) an FPSRTS--command troops with the touch screen while continuing to play the much more skilled solider yourself. Shooters are going to be a bit more interesting in the upcoming generation.
Here's a couple more ideas--fighters with a quick-reference move list on your controller, instant weapon swap in any action game, multiple perspectives during gameplay, touch screen puzzles, camera games (a new Fatal Frame-like game where you can only see anything supernatural when you look through the camera would be interesting), super guides that don't interrupt gameplay, maps, inventories, and other menus that can be accessed instantly without pausing the game. And I'm sure professionals are better at thinking up this stuff than I.
Dude, you're trying to hard to bash on stuff.
STFU and try enjoying games... o wait, you earn money by bashing on games.
Please continue.
On a serious note, lately I'm getting the feeling that you (Yahtzee) have forgotten why you (probable) started to like games. To have fun. Go back to the old times and try having fun.
You dismiss every new innovation without a second though.
I think you dismissed the Wii even before it was announced. Some psychic powers of your warned you "Shit, this could be fun, CODE RED, CODE RED!!!"
Same goes for Kinetic and Move. Yeah, they maybe aren't the future of gaming, but they ARE fun.
What's the main point of games again? Oh yeah, to entertain us. We play games to have fun, that's the core aspect of gaming.
Same goes for the 3D. Yeah we get it, it's not real 3D, no one is retarded enough to think so. But still, it is fun, jet again. I'm not a big fan of 3D my self, but I truly enjoy watching a movie when the effects are done good. Same goes for games.
Wii U... wow, great. You degraded your self to a kindergarten level. Pee You, We pee You.... any more stupid jokes? Well... go on.
And yes, you lack imagination if you can't find any useful things that can be done by the controller.
Oh well, you got Voice control right and praised Sony for the nice idea of Dual TV. I really like the concept.
The only problem with this and gaming is that I can't remember when was the last time a played a game with split screen. I think it was on my N64, Conker's bad fur day. And I think that the split screen improves the gameplay in this case.
Yahtzee, if you keep playing games for the shake of finding things that annoy you, then stop playing. If you play for the shake of entertainment, then stop being such a depressive guy and instead of searching for all the bad stuff, try thinking about all the good stuff that can be done with those new things.
I understand that you have to point out the bad sides, but then at least don't ignore all the good sides.
I go back playing Mincraft. Gonna fight some Creepers.
STFU and try enjoying games... o wait, you earn money by bashing on games.
Please continue.
On a serious note, lately I'm getting the feeling that you (Yahtzee) have forgotten why you (probable) started to like games. To have fun. Go back to the old times and try having fun.
You dismiss every new innovation without a second though.
I think you dismissed the Wii even before it was announced. Some psychic powers of your warned you "Shit, this could be fun, CODE RED, CODE RED!!!"
Same goes for Kinetic and Move. Yeah, they maybe aren't the future of gaming, but they ARE fun.
What's the main point of games again? Oh yeah, to entertain us. We play games to have fun, that's the core aspect of gaming.
Same goes for the 3D. Yeah we get it, it's not real 3D, no one is retarded enough to think so. But still, it is fun, jet again. I'm not a big fan of 3D my self, but I truly enjoy watching a movie when the effects are done good. Same goes for games.
Wii U... wow, great. You degraded your self to a kindergarten level. Pee You, We pee You.... any more stupid jokes? Well... go on.
And yes, you lack imagination if you can't find any useful things that can be done by the controller.
Oh well, you got Voice control right and praised Sony for the nice idea of Dual TV. I really like the concept.
The only problem with this and gaming is that I can't remember when was the last time a played a game with split screen. I think it was on my N64, Conker's bad fur day. And I think that the split screen improves the gameplay in this case.
Yahtzee, if you keep playing games for the shake of finding things that annoy you, then stop playing. If you play for the shake of entertainment, then stop being such a depressive guy and instead of searching for all the bad stuff, try thinking about all the good stuff that can be done with those new things.
I understand that you have to point out the bad sides, but then at least don't ignore all the good sides.
I go back playing Mincraft. Gonna fight some Creepers.
I'm surprised that as a game designer, Yahtzee doesn't see the value in something like the Wii U controller. It does everything every other standard controller does (two analogs, four face buttons, triggers, shoulders, etc) but adds functionality that doesn't impede on anything already in place, something he states is a plus mere paragraphs later.
Also, one of Yahtzee's most recurring criticims is the sequelization and stagnation that is so ever present in games, and yet when the companies do things to encourage creativity (Kinect, Move, 3D, Wii, Wii U) it's routinely slammed as not being the standard gaming experience.
Also, one of Yahtzee's most recurring criticims is the sequelization and stagnation that is so ever present in games, and yet when the companies do things to encourage creativity (Kinect, Move, 3D, Wii, Wii U) it's routinely slammed as not being the standard gaming experience.
I'm not much of a Nintendo fanboy (I skipped the N64 and Wii entirely and only got a Gamecube about a year ago due to them giving them away for practically nothing) but I'm actually a bit excited by the Wii U. For one thing, it doesn't look like they've really sacrificed anything for their gimmick this time around; while the Wiimote was, in many cases, an inferior controller to the standard gamepads it was replacing, the Wii U's controller has the same controls you'd expect from any current console, just with a screen added in. The graphical/processing capabilities also look like they'll be at least on par with the PS3 and 360, so we'll almost certainly see most of the major third-party cross-platform games ported to it.
Plus, I can see a lot of uses for that extra screen. Aside from the obvious uses of having menus always available I think it solves one of the major issues that games tend to have when dealing with object that are both near and far from the character. Traditionally, the game's main camera would give a fairly wide view of the action, with its focus being on distant objects. This is great when you're dealing with combat, movement and platforming, but is less than ideal when you need to closely examine your immediate surroundings or interact with a held object. For those situations, the player is usually given a control that allows them to switch to another camera view which certainly does the job (after all, it's been the standard approach for years) but isn't without its drawbacks. Switching from one view to another always breaks immersion since it highlights the artificiality of what you're seeing, and if you suddenly need to go back to the wide view (say, if you're being attacked) it can be awkward to switch back and forth.
With the Wii U's setup, developers can simply display the wide view on the TV screen and the close-up view on the controller (and with the controller's motion controls you can have it work as a movable window into the game-world, which would seem to me to be a much more natural way of adjusting your POV than by wiggling a thumbstick) and allow the player to just look up or down depending on what they want to focus on, as they would in the real world. Plus, with the touch screen the player can interact with objects directly in a way that isn't possible with more traditional controls.
Finally, as I mentioned above its very likely that the Wii U will receive ports of the mainstream, "hardcore" games that used to be exclusive to the PS3 and 360 (at least until Microsoft and Sony release their next iteration of their hardware and pull ahead again.) For me this is a big deal because, while both the HD consoles and the Wii had a few games I was interested in, neither of them really offered me enough to justify spending hundreds of dollars on a new console when I still had a sizable backlog of PS2 games that I was eager to try. With the Wii U being backward-compatible with the Wii (and possibly with the Gamecube; not sure what the final word is on that) I finally have a good enough reason to upgrade, conveniently just as I'm starting to run out of PS2 games that I'm interested in.
Plus, I can see a lot of uses for that extra screen. Aside from the obvious uses of having menus always available I think it solves one of the major issues that games tend to have when dealing with object that are both near and far from the character. Traditionally, the game's main camera would give a fairly wide view of the action, with its focus being on distant objects. This is great when you're dealing with combat, movement and platforming, but is less than ideal when you need to closely examine your immediate surroundings or interact with a held object. For those situations, the player is usually given a control that allows them to switch to another camera view which certainly does the job (after all, it's been the standard approach for years) but isn't without its drawbacks. Switching from one view to another always breaks immersion since it highlights the artificiality of what you're seeing, and if you suddenly need to go back to the wide view (say, if you're being attacked) it can be awkward to switch back and forth.
With the Wii U's setup, developers can simply display the wide view on the TV screen and the close-up view on the controller (and with the controller's motion controls you can have it work as a movable window into the game-world, which would seem to me to be a much more natural way of adjusting your POV than by wiggling a thumbstick) and allow the player to just look up or down depending on what they want to focus on, as they would in the real world. Plus, with the touch screen the player can interact with objects directly in a way that isn't possible with more traditional controls.
Finally, as I mentioned above its very likely that the Wii U will receive ports of the mainstream, "hardcore" games that used to be exclusive to the PS3 and 360 (at least until Microsoft and Sony release their next iteration of their hardware and pull ahead again.) For me this is a big deal because, while both the HD consoles and the Wii had a few games I was interested in, neither of them really offered me enough to justify spending hundreds of dollars on a new console when I still had a sizable backlog of PS2 games that I was eager to try. With the Wii U being backward-compatible with the Wii (and possibly with the Gamecube; not sure what the final word is on that) I finally have a good enough reason to upgrade, conveniently just as I'm starting to run out of PS2 games that I'm interested in.
Yeah sure the name is weird but Golden Gaytimes are delicious!!! I could go for a gaytime right now...mmmmmm, gaytime.
OT: I agree, it seems like Nintendo are purposely trying to make their consoles sound stupid.
OT: I agree, it seems like Nintendo are purposely trying to make their consoles sound stupid.
![[Esoteric Reference]](https://eg-forums-escapist-data.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/avatars/l/119/119630.jpg?1620991128){kind=avatar}
I always feel awkward when I have to do something like give voice commands for a game. It was OK for Hey You Pikachu cause I was little and didn't know the difference between T.V. people and not-T.V. people.
Now that I have firmly established that there is a difference, voice commands don't hold any merit for me.
Now that I have firmly established that there is a difference, voice commands don't hold any merit for me.
I'm giving Nintendo the benefit of the doubt so far, and considering the WiiU controller a "prototype" still. Meant only to demonstrate the mini-screen functionality. Hopefully, when the real thing is released it will have upgraded tactile inputs. Dual analog sticks would be a nice start.
As for the dual screen stuff, I see plenty of games (both single- and multi-player) that can make use of it. For instance, ANY RPG with an in-game menu. Instead of pressing a button to pause the game and bring up your inventory, save game options, etc... you can just access your inventory from the mini screen. If you need to pause the game, well, that's what the PAUSE button is for.
Imagine Fallout (not a Nintendo game, I know, but I'm playing New Vegas atm) where the handheld screen was a permanent PipBoy. You could sort through your inventory and drop unneeded items while you stroll. You could switch weapons or ammo on the fly. And if a game developer wanted to be mean (read: make it more lifelike or challenging) they could take away the "pause" option in combat. You want to use a stimpack mid-combat? Find a hiding spot because the bullets will continue to fly.
Any FPS could track minimap, multiplayer kill count, weapons and ammo on the small screen, leaving the whole TV for unobstructed field of vision. RTS (which generally suck on consoles, true) could have a replica of your main screen on the touchpad allowing for touch-input to mimic a mouse.
TL;DR EVERY game has a hud of some sort, most games have menus. Those items could easily migrate to the handheld device, freeing up TV real estate for the game.
As for the dual screen stuff, I see plenty of games (both single- and multi-player) that can make use of it. For instance, ANY RPG with an in-game menu. Instead of pressing a button to pause the game and bring up your inventory, save game options, etc... you can just access your inventory from the mini screen. If you need to pause the game, well, that's what the PAUSE button is for.
Imagine Fallout (not a Nintendo game, I know, but I'm playing New Vegas atm) where the handheld screen was a permanent PipBoy. You could sort through your inventory and drop unneeded items while you stroll. You could switch weapons or ammo on the fly. And if a game developer wanted to be mean (read: make it more lifelike or challenging) they could take away the "pause" option in combat. You want to use a stimpack mid-combat? Find a hiding spot because the bullets will continue to fly.
Any FPS could track minimap, multiplayer kill count, weapons and ammo on the small screen, leaving the whole TV for unobstructed field of vision. RTS (which generally suck on consoles, true) could have a replica of your main screen on the touchpad allowing for touch-input to mimic a mouse.
TL;DR EVERY game has a hud of some sort, most games have menus. Those items could easily migrate to the handheld device, freeing up TV real estate for the game.
I certainly didn't need your help being disappointed by the E3 announcements this time. Oh hey! A bunch of franchises that have already gone on too long are getting yet another installment! Sony and Nintendo still haven't come up with their next consoles yet! Absolutely nothing interesting is happening with PC gaming for like the tenth year in a row! Nintendo came up with another silly gimmick to sell their next system! Yeesh. At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire industry collapses 1983-style in another year or two.
The Sony splitscreen thing was the only remotely interesting news I've heard so far, and I had managed to miss that the first time around so thanks for informing me. And even that, well...
My big question is why Vizio decided to put a top-bottom mode in their sets in the first place. I guess maybe it was because they anticipated this use for it, but then why didn't they make their own splitscreen glasses available commercially?
The Sony splitscreen thing was the only remotely interesting news I've heard so far, and I had managed to miss that the first time around so thanks for informing me. And even that, well...
My biggest shock was not that someone figured out how to do it, but that someone already makes sets that use polarized glasses and not those retarded shutter glasses. And it's only $700? Wasn't it just like a year ago that non-3D sets that big were selling for that amount?the antithesis said:
My big question is why Vizio decided to put a top-bottom mode in their sets in the first place. I guess maybe it was because they anticipated this use for it, but then why didn't they make their own splitscreen glasses available commercially?
Though you got to look at it like this. At least Nintendo and MS are trying to make their gimmick work and please everyone. Cause the Causal crowd won't care about the next Gears, or FF, or whatever we "hardcore" gamers are playing. They like these little mini games that aren't to hard.Mxrz said:
I hardly believe that any company will fully switch over to just pleasing the "Causal" crowd. They might make games for it, sure as they want to keep making money. But I still think that the big time company will make the good hardcore games. Like ME3 and all that. For Sony, not to be a fanboy or anything but I haven't heard shit about the PSMove.
I too am sad that there's no E3 video, but it's cool. I love you anyway, Yahtzee.
Please, PLEASE do DNF though!
Please, PLEASE do DNF though!
Of course the Wii U's name was going to be picked on. I defy any game reviewer to not make a joke on it. The instant thing which came to my mind was Ling from Kung Pow; Enter the Fist.
And apparently I'm not the only one. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsRfQMEyul0]
Although it's a well know fact that giving things a silly name is key to getting the name remembered.
Although the rest of the console looks good. I've always liked the DS and touch screen, it's a much better idea than motion controls, although I'm going to wait and see if the games will have left handed support, which, being left handed, was always a huge problem with most of the games on the DS.
And apparently I'm not the only one. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsRfQMEyul0]
Although it's a well know fact that giving things a silly name is key to getting the name remembered.
Although the rest of the console looks good. I've always liked the DS and touch screen, it's a much better idea than motion controls, although I'm going to wait and see if the games will have left handed support, which, being left handed, was always a huge problem with most of the games on the DS.