Fallout 3: A Different Kind of Treasure
- Thread starter Susan Arendt
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You can buy another slave for 1000 caps in Paradise Falls.BallPtPenTheif said:
Yeah, I gotta agree with you Ms. Arendt. In Oblivion, I'd go into a cave somewhere, kill everyone inside and find, to my surprise, a beautiful Dwarven hammer, or a magical sword that I could never use but was too unique to sell. Going into a cave in Fallout 3, I found munitions.
God, it's true. But it really lends itself to the game experience of a wasteland. Everyone, including the player, is 'just getting by'. Frankly, i fell in love (FULL love) with the game the moment i stepped perplexed into Andale.
Not me.. unfortunately I slaughtered the entire slaver compound (except for the slaves). I'm roleplaying as a Clint Eastwood type of character and the main slaver guy was giving me too much lip.Copter400 said:
It turned into one of the more awesome firefights I've had in the game thus far.
The most disappointing aspect of the game (besides the horrendously bad ending and dialogue, of course), for me, definitely correlates with what you're saying, and that was the small amount of schematics in the game. When they were previewing this feature, it sounded as if what they were showing us was merely a small portion of what would be available in the retail product. When I started playing the game, I had no clue how many items I'd be able to create, so I literally picked up one of every miscellaneous object lying around. "I'll probably need this wooden spoon for something eventually... ohh, and this cooking pan might come in handy!" Unfortunately, I came to realize that the tiddly-winks I'd been stuffing into my inventory were mostly worthless junk, when I discovered that there were 7 schematics in the damn game.
Now, the custom items are pretty unique and I appreciated their designs, but I didn't find much use for them. Some are worthwhile, like the Dart Gun, especially for use against death claws and the Nuka Grenades are devastating against hordes of enemies. Others are just kind of worthless, like the Bottlecap Mine, which I never felt compelled to use or build (considering there's a free one at every work bench in the game). Some are just gimmicky and all around pointless, like the Railway Rifle and the Rock-It-Launcher especially.
I assumed their inspiration behind this feature was the similar system found in Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura. Honestly, if the people at Bethesda didn't play this game prior to making a sequel to Fallout 2, I'd be shocked, since it was developed by three of the biggest names behind the original Fallout and follows similar design principles. Coming off of this game, I had bigger expectations from Bethesda. You see, what really amplified my disappointment is that whereas Fallout 3 has less than 10 custom items, Arcanum had about 120, and pretty much every object in the game world was implemented as a component in their creation. I'll concede that there's obviously more polish and effort behind Fallout's items, but considering how few there are, it makes sense. Quality over quantity, but honestly, there's no reason their staff couldn't have given us both.
Now, the custom items are pretty unique and I appreciated their designs, but I didn't find much use for them. Some are worthwhile, like the Dart Gun, especially for use against death claws and the Nuka Grenades are devastating against hordes of enemies. Others are just kind of worthless, like the Bottlecap Mine, which I never felt compelled to use or build (considering there's a free one at every work bench in the game). Some are just gimmicky and all around pointless, like the Railway Rifle and the Rock-It-Launcher especially.
I assumed their inspiration behind this feature was the similar system found in Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura. Honestly, if the people at Bethesda didn't play this game prior to making a sequel to Fallout 2, I'd be shocked, since it was developed by three of the biggest names behind the original Fallout and follows similar design principles. Coming off of this game, I had bigger expectations from Bethesda. You see, what really amplified my disappointment is that whereas Fallout 3 has less than 10 custom items, Arcanum had about 120, and pretty much every object in the game world was implemented as a component in their creation. I'll concede that there's obviously more polish and effort behind Fallout's items, but considering how few there are, it makes sense. Quality over quantity, but honestly, there's no reason their staff couldn't have given us both.
I think the last paragraph of this review gives the more convincing answer of why the game left the author with mixed feelings. I feel the same way about Fallout 3-- I don't dispute it must be a good game, but the world isn't to my taste. I like dark future, oppressive bloodthirsty corporations, religious fanatic space marines-- bring it on!! But I look at Fallout and don't see anything that excites me. The intro looks silly and burdensome; the rest of it just isn't a place I particularly want to be.
As for the loot, well, I'm playing the new King's Bounty, and the loot is almost an afterthought there compared to your average MMO, but it's a delightful fantasy world and the quest lines have kind of interesting stories which keep you going as your character does so many good deeds there should be a merit badge for playing it.
So, yeah, a game is perfectly fine without loot, if the world it paints is a place you want to be.
As for the loot, well, I'm playing the new King's Bounty, and the loot is almost an afterthought there compared to your average MMO, but it's a delightful fantasy world and the quest lines have kind of interesting stories which keep you going as your character does so many good deeds there should be a merit badge for playing it.
So, yeah, a game is perfectly fine without loot, if the world it paints is a place you want to be.
I have played them both extensively and I have come to the conclusion that you are off your rocker. In Oblivion assuming you aren't using mods, loot is defined by levels. You kill a bandit at level one you get a rusty nail, you kill a bandit at level 30 you get a daedric sword of awesome every time. This counted for the caves, chests, ruins, oblivion gates and where ever else you would expect to get some form of compensation for your work. The first ruin you encounter that yields a dwarven hammer may give you the warm fuzzys but if you try actively persuing loot you will find a dwarven hammer in every ruin until you have a pile of them; level up and now they are all replaced by dwarven hammer MK2's to make you feel like you wasted your time.
The only unique loot was from quests which sadly even the enchantmens on that loot was levelled so you needed a guide to determine when you would get the most bang for you buck; or they would come from statues that broke the game, skeleton key anyone? Yes there was loot that you could just find like those relics that would lead you into an entire questline but those were too rare, and their usefulness was mediocre compared to the levelled loot. *cough* fin gleam *cough*
The final nail in the coffin was that once you hit level 30 all loot stopped advancing yet the enemy's health continued scaling to the point where they could barely damage your enchanted armour, yet your enchanted weapon could barely damage them. The game also failed to deliver on eye candy loot to adorn your house so if you removed all weapons and armour from the shelves you would be the proud owner of the varla stone warehouse.
Fallout 3 gave the player weapons and clothes sufficient to complete the game but left the loot that actually required effort in the farthest coners of the game so completionists felt rewarded. All weapons have a unique upgrade, weapons can be made if the player collects schematics, there are unique clothes that aren't just regular clothes with a new name and a +2 fire resistance enchantment which Oblivion is guilty; the Mirv encourages massive searching just to unlock the door making it much more satisfying.
Fallout 3 also has more collectibles than Oblivion such as the quantum, bobbleheads, rare books, pre war cash and purified water. I know the robot butler has an infinite suppl of water but if you don't use it you will find purified water to be appropriately rare. The game also provides the player unique items to add to their house in memory of their travels; Lincoln's hat, the wasteland survival guide etc. Finally Fallout 3 has the tesla powerpack an item so rare it wasn't meant to be in the game.
If none of this is sufficient for your item collecting needs I suggest Morrowind as that game was a lootist's dream.
The only unique loot was from quests which sadly even the enchantmens on that loot was levelled so you needed a guide to determine when you would get the most bang for you buck; or they would come from statues that broke the game, skeleton key anyone? Yes there was loot that you could just find like those relics that would lead you into an entire questline but those were too rare, and their usefulness was mediocre compared to the levelled loot. *cough* fin gleam *cough*
The final nail in the coffin was that once you hit level 30 all loot stopped advancing yet the enemy's health continued scaling to the point where they could barely damage your enchanted armour, yet your enchanted weapon could barely damage them. The game also failed to deliver on eye candy loot to adorn your house so if you removed all weapons and armour from the shelves you would be the proud owner of the varla stone warehouse.
Fallout 3 gave the player weapons and clothes sufficient to complete the game but left the loot that actually required effort in the farthest coners of the game so completionists felt rewarded. All weapons have a unique upgrade, weapons can be made if the player collects schematics, there are unique clothes that aren't just regular clothes with a new name and a +2 fire resistance enchantment which Oblivion is guilty; the Mirv encourages massive searching just to unlock the door making it much more satisfying.
Fallout 3 also has more collectibles than Oblivion such as the quantum, bobbleheads, rare books, pre war cash and purified water. I know the robot butler has an infinite suppl of water but if you don't use it you will find purified water to be appropriately rare. The game also provides the player unique items to add to their house in memory of their travels; Lincoln's hat, the wasteland survival guide etc. Finally Fallout 3 has the tesla powerpack an item so rare it wasn't meant to be in the game.
If none of this is sufficient for your item collecting needs I suggest Morrowind as that game was a lootist's dream.
what a stupid way to assess this game - completely missing the point of it in the process. You are a survivour, scraping out an exsistence in a hostile, war-torn world. Finding health et al is incredibly satisfying due to the tenuous grasp you have on keeping alive. If the game pummelled you with treasure (gold whatever) you'd lose that 'living on the edge' atmosphere the game so brilliantly provides. Waltzing around with bags full of cash and lumbered with all manner of 'special powers' would not be in keeping with the game world and game set-up - thus would break the wonderfully immersive experience Fallout 3 is. I personally love going off piste for a little explorationa and poking around - all of a sudden a piece of scrap metal is the most valuable thing you could find - allowing you to exchange it for cash and goods - and I love that.
Indeed, the artefacts of such a way of life would only serve to remind us how hopeless we are. I am pretty convinced a lot of gamers out there are still struggling trying to appreciate the game for what they want it to be. I hope as many as possible find their way to this article. Kudos!
I was thinking about that, too. Considering the achievements of mankind and others in the second instalment, they should have gotten very far by 200 years. Fallout 3 is, however, simply one interpretation by the developer team behind the game, and that interpretation is explained in the introduction in the game manual. This makes me accept their dimension of it. How could I not, I love the concept. Fallout 2 is still the best game ever made.RAKtheUndead said:
Very good article, I'll admit that at first I was one of those elitist twerps you mentioned, but you made a lot of good points about the game. It's not for everybody, (Few games are) but you did manage to help me figure out exactly why I enjoy the game more than some of my fellow gamers do, aside from my obsession with the game series.
I agree, this feature wasn't exploited to anywhere near its full potential. The good-ish news for PC players is, if the modding community go anywhere near as gaga for F3 as they did for Oblivion, then there might be some pretty exciting customisation options on the way. I know its no remedy for console gamers (of which, for F3 at least, I am one), and that classical fantasy has its own breed of detail obsessive, but I think it would be awesome if the post-apocalyptic genre got the same sort of love from its fanbase.Susan Arendt said:
I mean, just think of what could be done - vehicles, for one. More schematics, more historical remnants (for my money, anything from the American civil war, through the present day to almost Firefly-esque neo-western is viable). New mutant types, more miscellany (i.e. LEWT!).
Modders, take note!
I also think that there's a grim sense of humour pervasive throughout the game - mostly via the contrasting of pre- and post-apocalyptic worlds - that wasn't truly present in Oblivion, and could also be exploited to great effect by story/environment/mechanic modders. Anyone who played the 'Matrix, 1950s-style' quest should know what I'm talking about.
Anyway, nuff said, I think.
I think the best memory of Fallout 3 was when I was clearing through the Mercs base, and I picked up all sorts of stuff including a plunger. Then after a few hours of play, I took a break to go clean my bathroom. While cleaning out the cabinets under the sink, I found a plunger propped up on the pipes below the sink! Now that was some phat loot!
I haven't played any of the other fallouts either, but I enjoyed the game at least somewhat. When i realized that the game isn't built to let you collect EVERYTHING you find to go back and sell, and i stopped trying to, it became much more fun for me. Though i don't see much replay value, even to go back to get the karma achievements...
I'll get the DLC's when they come out of course...that and Fable II as well...
Recently though I'm practically alone in an icy northern new england campus town taking winter classes, so it's dead... NEVER play a post apocalyptic game when you're alone in a wasteland to begin with. I litterally went outside wishing i had a pipboy, a chinese assault rifle, and wondered how much DR my jacket had while thinking i heard a Radroach scurry by...
I'll get the DLC's when they come out of course...that and Fable II as well...
Recently though I'm practically alone in an icy northern new england campus town taking winter classes, so it's dead... NEVER play a post apocalyptic game when you're alone in a wasteland to begin with. I litterally went outside wishing i had a pipboy, a chinese assault rifle, and wondered how much DR my jacket had while thinking i heard a Radroach scurry by...
Bethesda wanted to give the player a feel of hopelessness, it's a gory, violent, and sad game. You walk around the landscape, looking at all the destroyed building and finding the various notes and audiologs, and a story unfolds, you wonder, "How was this like before its destruction" Every building has its own story, especially places like the Dunwich building and fort Constantine. I caught myself wondering "what must have it been like, to live as the bombs fell?" This kind of setting expands the story, it builds on the theme of Fallout 3, you living in a sheltered world in the vaults, but the world outside is a brutal one, where most people just don't care anymore.Susan Arendt said:Beauty's in the eye, and all that.ThaBenMan said:And I also must disagree with your dislike of the aesthetic of the world of Fallout 3, Ms. Arendt. I think the Capital Wasteland is very beautiful in it's own way. The deserted suburbs, hills dotted with blasted, withered trees, and the faded glory of Washington, DC, are locales that I'm sure I'll visit time and again.
I'm just glad that you didn't comepletely give up on it and gave it another chance
An interesting article. I can understand where you are coming from. That sense of risk/reward is prevalent throughout a majority of RPGs and is a factor that keeps a person coming back to the game over and over again. As I'm writing this I'm pondering picking up Oblivion again, but for me, it's not the idea of finding treasure that brings me back. What sucks me into a game is its atmosphere and/or gameplay. Fallout had me from the moment the load screen popped up and that deep bass chord rang through my living room, signaling an ominous adventure ahead of me. I loved Fallout 3. I just finished it, and I had gotten it at a midnight release. I took my time with it because I wanted to enjoy every facet of it. I wanted to be swallowed up by it. I saw Fallout 3 as an invitation to live in a fictitious world that was based on a certain what-if reality. I suspended my disbelief, and to be honest it wasn't hard for me when it came to this game. Isn't that what the best kind of entertainment does? Take you on a trip when you are completely transported? Yes, it's true that the world of Fallout isn't necessarily any place you'd want to be in, but doesn't the best kind of art serve as a reminder or reflection upon one's self and of humanity as a whole and of what we are capable of? I thought Bethesda did an uncompromising and consummate job of creating something that was wholly believable, and utterly fascinating at the very least as a hypothetical. Damn the treasure, I just want to see how the ended.