Fallout 76 shitstorm continues; this time with collector's edition

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Dalisclock

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Meiam said:
Oh and Bethesda might be introducing lootbox despite saying they wouldn't be in the game, I mean once your reputation is completly worthless, you might as well cash in.

https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/18/fallout-76-may-be-flipping-on-its-no-lockboxes-vow/
It's hard to shake the feeling that Bethesda is competing for some kind of "Most Complete Fiasco" award that I didn't know existed.

It's like they're jealous of EA, Activision and Ubisoft getting all the shitshow attention and felt they'd make a real showing this year.
 

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Dalisclock said:
Meiam said:
Oh and Bethesda might be introducing lootbox despite saying they wouldn't be in the game, I mean once your reputation is completly worthless, you might as well cash in.

https://massivelyop.com/2018/12/18/fallout-76-may-be-flipping-on-its-no-lockboxes-vow/
It's hard to shake the feeling that Bethesda is competing for some kind of "Most Complete Fiasco" award that I didn't know existed.

It's like they're jealous of EA, Activision and Ubisoft getting all the shitshow attention and felt they'd make a real showing this year.
When's the next Worst Company In America trophy awarded?
 

FakeSympathy

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And this is where I have to ask; How in the name of atoms did you FUCK THIS UP? "First fully fledged online game" Is not a good excuse; Didn't everyone see how Activision and EA treat Destiny 2 and Battlefront II, respectively? Did they not think "Maybe we should be bit more careful about this?"

And I guess there is no dedicated mod support for FO76 because it's online. Like, why not allow people to host private servers, then?
 

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sgy0003 said:
And this is where I have to ask; How in the name of atoms did you FUCK THIS UP? "First fully fledged online game" Is not a good excuse; Didn't everyone see how Activision and EA treat Destiny 2 and Battlefront II, respectively? Did they not think "Maybe we should be bit more careful about this?"

And I guess there is no dedicated mod support for FO76 because it's online. Like, why not allow people to host private servers, then?
Because people will buy it because Fallout. People will Pre-order $200 collector editions because Shiney! Why does it matter when people will literally just fork over their money on a promise? And then keep on doing it over and over again because it's the new hot thing.

When people stop rewarding them, they'll stop doing it.

I'm not absolving Bethesda of this. It's still an inexcusible shitshow that no comeptenant company would allow but people let them get away with this shit.
 
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Dalisclock said:
Because people will buy it because Fallout. People will Pre-order $200 collector editions because Shiney! Why does it matter when people will literally just fork over their money on a promise? And then keep on doing it over and over again because it's the new hot thing.

When people stop rewarding them, they'll stop doing it.

I'm not absolving Bethesda of this. It's still an inexcusible shitshow that no comeptenant company would allow but people let them get away with this shit.
Honestly, this is the truest statement there is.

However, it's a statement that honestly forgets one imbalance of Gaming. In truth, we have little power.

May I remind everyone about Mass Effect Andromeda [https://www.thegamer.com/mass-effect-andromeda-behind-the-scenes-reasons-franchise/]? I just got the game for the Holiday Sale on PS4, because I just got a PS4 pro a few weeks ago. It was ten bucks. It had everything, every update, so I figured I'll see for myself how it was.

It's fun. It's more fun than I thought. Some of the more cringey things [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TUO-GNI1U8] have been dealt with or taken out. It's clunky for someone like me who loves Titanfall 2, but it's still a hell of a lot better in combat than some of the other Mass Effects.

But some of us voted with our wallets, for the most part. Once word of mouth spread, ME:A moved only 2 million units by the time that EA decided that they were shelving the Franchise for a bit. It was actually a financial success [https://www.pcgamesn.com/mass-effect-andromeda/mass-effect-andromeda-sales-numbers], but just not big as a success as EA wanted.

So here we are. No DLC [https://www.masseffect.com/news/mass-effect-andromeda-update-from-the-studio], and we wondering when we'll ever hear for the Series that reinvigorated the love of Sci-Fi in a lot of us.

Video Game Developers can punish us if we don't go along. Even if they see a profit, if it's not big enough of a profit, they will screw us over. Or, if they made a bad game, like Dawn of War 3 [https://www.polygon.com/2018/2/8/16993562/warhammer-dawn-of-war-3-dlc-support-relic-sega]. They hold the IPs that we love, and we either pay for the games or never see them again.

Honestly, it's enough to make you want to get another hobby... I'm starting to go that way.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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sgy0003 said:
And this is where I have to ask; How in the name of atoms did you FUCK THIS UP? "First fully fledged online game" Is not a good excuse; Didn't everyone see how Activision and EA treat Destiny 2 and Battlefront II, respectively? Did they not think "Maybe we should be bit more careful about this?"

And I guess there is no dedicated mod support for FO76 because it's online. Like, why not allow people to host private servers, then?
This isn't Bethesda's first fully fledged online game though. They've already published Elder Scrolls Online and have kept it running for 4,5 years. You can sort of forgive Bethesda Games Studios for not learning a lot from ESO, but Bethesda Softworks as the publisher of both should definitely know better. Yet they are making all the same mistakes they did with ESO and then some for good measure, as if they haven't been running a successful MMO for over four years.

So your question is totally warranted. Bethesda Softworks isn't a mid-size publisher anymore and they have experience with multiplayer games.
 

Dalisclock

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ObsidianJones said:
Dalisclock said:
Because people will buy it because Fallout. People will Pre-order $200 collector editions because Shiney! Why does it matter when people will literally just fork over their money on a promise? And then keep on doing it over and over again because it's the new hot thing.

When people stop rewarding them, they'll stop doing it.

I'm not absolving Bethesda of this. It's still an inexcusible shitshow that no comeptenant company would allow but people let them get away with this shit.
Honestly, this is the truest statement there is.

However, it's a statement that honestly forgets one imbalance of Gaming. In truth, we have little power.

May I remind everyone about Mass Effect Andromeda [https://www.thegamer.com/mass-effect-andromeda-behind-the-scenes-reasons-franchise/]? I just got the game for the Holiday Sale on PS4, because I just got a PS4 pro a few weeks ago. It was ten bucks. It had everything, every update, so I figured I'll see for myself how it was.

It's fun. It's more fun than I thought. Some of the more cringey things [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TUO-GNI1U8] have been dealt with or taken out. It's clunky for someone like me who loves Titanfall 2, but it's still a hell of a lot better in combat than some of the other Mass Effects.

But some of us voted with our wallets, for the most part. Once word of mouth spread, ME:A moved only 2 million units by the time that EA decided that they were shelving the Franchise for a bit. It was actually a financial success [https://www.pcgamesn.com/mass-effect-andromeda/mass-effect-andromeda-sales-numbers], but just not big as a success as EA wanted.

So here we are. No DLC [https://www.masseffect.com/news/mass-effect-andromeda-update-from-the-studio], and we wondering when we'll ever hear for the Series that reinvigorated the love of Sci-Fi in a lot of us.

Video Game Developers can punish us if we don't go along. Even if they see a profit, if it's not big enough of a profit, they will screw us over. Or, if they made a bad game, like Dawn of War 3 [https://www.polygon.com/2018/2/8/16993562/warhammer-dawn-of-war-3-dlc-support-relic-sega]. They hold the IPs that we love, and we either pay for the games or never see them again.

Honestly, it's enough to make you want to get another hobby... I'm starting to go that way.
It's pretty much the dilemmia right now. If they made a game that doesn't make enough money(at least for them), they can kill the frachise stone dead because "it's not profitable enough". If it's bad and people buy it to support the frachise, they can go "Hey, people want more games like this" and feel like they can keep making more crappy games because it's profitable.

Granted, those are the worst case scenarios but a lot of companies tend to want to play to those choices, putting fans into a no win situation where supporting the frachise just enables more bad games and not buying results in the franchise getting put on ice, perhaps forever(or until the rights go to someone else).

In that case, we're stuck with making peace with the fact whatever series had a good run, appreciating what good games we got out of it and start looking for other ones that are similar to fill the gap. I'm not saying it's easy because it's rarely fun to realize all things end and many far sooner then you'd wish.

I grew up in the 1990's, so I remember when Lucasarts was at the top of their game and pretty much created the Adventure game genre(Yeah, Sierra was before them but Sierra didn't quite have the magic LA did). And slowly watched it sucummb to an obsession with doing terrible Star Wars games around the time the Prequels came out. I realized that the games I loved weren't coming back anytime soon(and I was right, because the adventure game genre wouldn't start coming back to life for another decade or so). When Lucasarts was shut down in 2013, I couldn't be sad because to me it had already been dead for years.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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sgy0003 said:
And this is where I have to ask; How in the name of atoms did you FUCK THIS UP? "First fully fledged online game" Is not a good excuse; Didn't everyone see how Activision and EA treat Destiny 2 and Battlefront II, respectively? Did they not think "Maybe we should be bit more careful about this?"

And I guess there is no dedicated mod support for FO76 because it's online. Like, why not allow people to host private servers, then?
This isn't even their first online game. They also did TES online which was a huge letdown to me that I thought would never be surpassed but Fallout was all like "hold my Nukacola".
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Dreiko said:
This isn't even their first online game. They also did TES online which was a huge letdown to me that I thought would never be surpassed but Fallout was all like "hold my Nukacola".
To be fair to ESO it improved a lot over the first three years of its life and is a pretty fun MMO today. What I find really weird is that Bethesda Softworks, the publisher, would make pretty much the same mistakes again with Fo76. It all lends credence to Shamus Young's theory that Bethesda suffers from terrible management, in that they can't even retain institutional knowledge for 5 years.
 

Dalisclock

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Well, I guess this is some kind of apology. Besthesda will give everyone who logged onto FO76 a free copy of Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout: Tactics on PC.

https://www.polygon.com/2018/12/23/18153911/fallout-76-free-classic-collection-games-pc-bethesda

I mean, it's a better gesture then the $5 of digital currency thing they did a week or so ago, offering free copies of some Good Fallout games, and ones that a lot of people have likely never played. Granted, all 3 of these games are around 20 years old at this point and routinely sell for like $10 so it's not like this costs Bethesda much if anything at this point and I suspect if were interested in playing them, you probably already own them.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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In another funny turn, apparently they were selling these nuka cola rum bottles that were supposed to look like the rocket bottles from the game but instead of shipping rocket-shaped bottles they shipped normal bottles inside a plastic case that was shaped like a rocket. Concerns about false advertising are being raised now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZjuW9LDVeU


This is a complete joke at this point.
 

FakeSympathy

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Dreiko said:
In another funny turn, apparently they were selling these nuka cola rum bottles that were supposed to look like the rocket bottles from the game but instead of shipping rocket-shaped bottles they shipped normal bottles inside a plastic case that was shaped like a rocket. Concerns about false advertising are being raised now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZjuW9LDVeU


This is a complete joke at this point.
If the casing Actually functioned, it may have not been as bad since you can put any other glass bottle in there and call it Nuka Dark Rum.

But no, the testing video shows that the casing causes spill everywhere
https://youtu.be/wGDPYlxiQ_o

Seriously, the poor guy probably had to lick the rum off the table since it was $80 he just spilled
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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sgy0003 said:
Dreiko said:
In another funny turn, apparently they were selling these nuka cola rum bottles that were supposed to look like the rocket bottles from the game but instead of shipping rocket-shaped bottles they shipped normal bottles inside a plastic case that was shaped like a rocket. Concerns about false advertising are being raised now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZjuW9LDVeU


This is a complete joke at this point.
If the casing Actually functioned, it may have not been as bad since you can put any other glass bottle in there and call it Nuka Dark Rum.

But no, the testing video shows that the casing causes spill everywhere
https://youtu.be/wGDPYlxiQ_o

Seriously, the poor guy probably had to lick the rum off the table since it was $80 he just spilled
Yeah I thought this was going to be at least a 6-pack of them but no it was just the one bottle. It better be the top aged rum of the century or it's a huge fraud.
 

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$80 for what is probably a $15 bottle of rum encased in $0.20 of plastic.

Amazing.

Unfortunately I don't think this would qualify as false advertising because I don't think Bethesda (or the company actually making this) specifies the construction of the bottle in any of the pre-order advertising. They just allowed people to assume that it's a glass bottle, they never said it wasn't a plastic bottle case.
 

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It refuses to stop. It just refuses.

You know how Bethesda promised to ship out the replacement duffle bags and how they gave out everyone's information? After all that, you think the issue would resolve. But no, players have to wait 4 to 6 months for their replacements. https://www.destructoid.com/fallout-76-replacement-bags-will-be-shipping-out-in-4-6-months-535663.phtml I know this information is almost a month old, but I don't think I heard anyone talking about it. 4 to 6 months? By then, I don't think anyone would even remember getting the duffle bags.

There was also a bunch of news covering how the updates for the game actually made the game worse. But I'm sure you guys know all about the horrible patches by this point.

What I wanted to talk about are two recent developments; First, The nuke code was glitched as soon as 2019 started. No one was able to launch nuke because the countdown timer was set to 9999 hours(No exaggeration) it may have lasted for only a day or so, but players were locked out of endgame content for the duration.

Second. Fallout 76 was released with the developer room enabled. Anyone who has ever played Skyrim or Fallout 4 (don't know about earlier entries) should be familiar about "coc qasmoke" command. For those of you who don't know, a dev room is a secret area filled with every item in a game for well, development and testing purposes. And now, this room is in a game... That is multiplayer.... That is filled with people who like to exploit this game. They disabled console command for this purpose, but did they not figure out there would be people who would glitch their ways in the game?

Not only is the dev room filled with every item in Fo76, but they also contain unleased items, which were no doubt meant to be sold at their atom shop. There are even stories about how the hackers and cheaters are selling these unreleased items on ebay for real money.

Bethesda has stated anyone who accessed these rooms will have their accounts suspended, but there have been reports or people using their mule accounts to access these rooms grabbing all they can, then transferring them to their other accounts.

Honestly, I feel it's GTA V Online launch all over again; A multiplayer in a piss poor condition filled with cheaters and hackers and the devs are only reacting. The dev room shouldn't been in the game in the first place. It is a clear sign Bethesda took a bigger bite than they can chew. Below is more information on this matter

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-01-11-fallout-76-players-have-worked-their-way-into-a-secret-developer-room-which-contains-a-human-npc#comments
 

Dalisclock

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I have to wonder if Bethesda has any clue what they're doing at this point. One of these things would be a mistake. Two is embarrassing. This much just implies that nobody in charge has any clue what's going on.
 

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Sensationalism is fun, eh.

I'll bet he first to tell you the game has its issues. And there's literally nothing to the post-story or would be MMO qualitiess of it, but geez these things are getting ludicrous.

sgy0003 said:
It refuses to stop. It just refuses.

You know how Bethesda promised to ship out the replacement duffle bags and how they gave out everyone's information? After all that, you think the issue would resolve. But no, players have to wait 4 to 6 months for their replacements. https://www.destructoid.com/fallout-76-replacement-bags-will-be-shipping-out-in-4-6-months-535663.phtml I know this information is almost a month old, but I don't think I heard anyone talking about it. 4 to 6 months? By then, I don't think anyone would even remember getting the duffle bags.
Yeah the bag thing was absolutely no-bueno on their part. But yeah, you can't magically pull replacements out of the nether realm to fix your error.

There was also a bunch of news covering how the updates for the game actually made the game worse. But I'm sure you guys know all about the horrible patches by this point.
I haven't actually and I follow the subreddits with the people actually playing the game. I mean, the one yesterday was bit questionable because it changed the supply drops (which tend to be useless for anyone over level 20) into PvP triggers. hich nullifies the general use people were putting them to help out new players or as a sort of LFG meetup. Besides going rather forcibly agaisnt the grain of how a playerbase used them, this obviously works well for a griefing mindset, where a high level player who has dozens of supply requisitions can set out what is now effectively bait (since it still broadcasts as a side quest in the area) for people, and snipe them as they open the lock and suddenly become wanted.

What I wanted to talk about are two recent developments; First, The nuke code was glitched as soon as 2019 started. No one was able to launch nuke because the countdown timer was set to 9999 hours(No exaggeration) it may have lasted for only a day or so, but players were locked out of endgame content for the duration.
Whoever fills in for the live team on holiday screwed something up. It happens. I don't know why some of these things aren't automated (other then I guess allowing for adjustments without dragging out the engineering team), but every so often someone forgets (or typos a 0 on in this case) to do one of these sort of weekly chores.

Correlation to it having anything to do with the year shift (other then the standard reset falling on a holiday as a result) was "fan speculation", according to the Kotaku article that couldn't be bothered to so much as quote a tweet of said speculation, which was nowhere to be found other then in reference to said article.

Second. Fallout 76 was released with the developer room enabled. Anyone who has ever played Skyrim or Fallout 4 (don't know about earlier entries) should be familiar about "coc qasmoke" command. For those of you who don't know, a dev room is a secret area filled with every item in a game for well, development and testing purposes. And now, this room is in a game... That is multiplayer.... That is filled with people who like to exploit this game. They disabled console command for this purpose, but did they not figure out there would be people who would glitch their ways in the game?
It has to be ingame for their engine to work. Now, that is certainly 100% on them. The engine probably should've been retired before Fallout 4, nevermind 76, or even before Skyrim. Why it isn't surrounded by some instant kill box (which exists in the Fissures) to ward out clever folks using their power armour to clip through the mesh is also on them.

Not only is the dev room filled with every item in Fo76, but they also contain unleased items, which were no doubt meant to be sold at their atom shop. There are even stories about how the hackers and cheaters are selling these unreleased items on ebay for real money.
More vague unsubstantiated stories (and yes I read your eurogamer link). 100% I'd believe that is probably happening. But anywhere so prominent as Ebay is not where folks deal in that sort of thing. Hell, there's literally another thread above this one talking about those transactions, and its not something you last long doing out on open monitored services.

Its interesting that they mention Atomic Shop Items, because there's not actually items in the Atomic Shop. The power armour they're showing screenshots of is regular power armour with a toggled paint job from the Atomic Shop, but paints revert to default if you acquire something with a paint job you don't have. The overwear/skins/outfits from the AS are the only actual "items" (unlocking them gives you a recipe to craft them). But they can't be traded and vanish if you drop them. So yeah that whole section is full of a batch of obvious contradictions.

Bethesda has stated anyone who accessed these rooms will have their accounts suspended, but there have been reports or people using their mule accounts to access these rooms grabbing all they can, then transferring them to their other accounts.
Well, you can't really nail someone for having an item that exists in the game on them. The unreleased stuff might be something of a tip off of course. I've had to deal with this headache myself, and tracking an item through multiple players is an extensive pain in the ass involving combing logs and comparing IPs and a general pile of mess just to snag one guy. And that's if they aren't professional smurfers who know well enough to use varying IPs/proxies/etc. There have been some accounts banned for the prior duping already that got all their accounts banned, so they will catch out your other ones. But not at NSA esque levels of investigation.

Honestly, I feel it's GTA V Online launch all over again; A multiplayer in a piss poor condition filled with cheaters and hackers and the devs are only reacting. The dev room shouldn't been in the game in the first place. It is a clear sign Bethesda took a bigger bite than they can chew.
"Filled" is probably an exaggeration. While I did play on PS4, which offers a certain level of insulation to such things (making mule accounts gets kind of expensive when you have to rebuy PSplus, or an actual console if you get completely hard banned). I'd mostly agree with that. They definitely didn't have a clue as to how to structure the multiplayer anything beyond the basic co-op team structure (even that has a few hiccups). And in their seeming hubris apparently never bothered to either run a proper beta/early access or do any fragment of market study into the field(s) they were stepping into.