Fallout: Not Like a Real-Life Nuclear Holocaust

Recommended Videos

Daverson

New member
Nov 17, 2009
1,164
0
0
I'd quite like to know why Dr Kaku, who's field of expertise is String Theory, feels that he's able to comment on the complex socio-politics of a post-atomic world? I mean, call me overly-orthodox, but I wouldn't call a paediatrician to comment on the possibility of crude oil in my back garden now, would I?
 

NeutralDrow

New member
Mar 23, 2009
9,097
0
0
Andy Chalk said:
In fact, the one thing Fallout comes closest to getting right is the least pleasant possibility of all: A devastating nuclear exchange could very easily happen. He pointed out that India and Pakistan have fought several wars and are now "eyeball to eyeball" with nuclear weapons. "That could be where it starts," he said. "China could be dragged into it, Russia could be dragged into it and we might also be dragged into it."
I certainly have no reason to doubt any of the other things, but this I have serious trouble taking seriously. Not that Pakistan and India would nuke each other, that's frighteningly plausible, but China, Russia, and the US?

The whole threat of nuclear winter during the Cold War was because of a standoff between two superpowers, armed to the goddamn teeth with nuclear warheads and basically in control of half the world each. Initially, the threat was that the US would nuke Russia if Russia nuked Western Europe, which eventually escalated into the US nuking the entire Soviet Union and substantial chunks of Latin America and Asia if Russia nuked Europe, the US, and the Middle East, or vice versa. It was a scary idea (that becomes mildly less scary when you realize that, after the Cuban Missile Crisis, the two countries started taking steps to reassure each other that they wouldn't use their nukes), because both sides had large enough stockpiles to make it happen.

But India and Pakistan? They're right next to each other, their hatred for each other is well known, and they have very few other enemies (none of whom are the seven other nuclear powers), let alone stockpiles large enough to threaten them. If they started firing at each other, there would be literally no reason for China, Russia, or North Korea to do anything. It would still cause incredible devastation lasting years beyond the initial bombing, and probably cause nuclear winter for Asia and East Africa in general (due to fallout following weather patterns like the monsoons), but that's still far beyond global devastation.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
2,682
0
0
kouriichi said:
***Snip***
Exactly. "In theory".
We arnt sure. We can speculate, but thats really it. And what about all the placed bombs dont fall? The electronics wouldent be effected there.

And not every book on electronics would be destroyed. So if a "nuclear winter" didnt accually happen, then we would be completely fine. And even if it did, you have to take into effect green house gasses and the such.

The sun itself could heat the clouds of dust right? Thats another possible idea. And with the gasses produced below, and the suns heat above, "In theory", only parts of the plant would freeze of. Probably the parts closest to the north and south poles.

"In theory" big foot exists because theres a law that protects them for being hunted.
The effects of nuclear bombs on localized areas isn't theory. There have been roughly 2000 nuclear tests carried out by various superpowers including 1054 (official numbers) carried out by the United States alone. It's safe to say that scientists are experts on the subject of nuclear detonations.

The reason there are simulations done for the events of nuclear holocaust is because such events haven't been tested (durr). These tests use very solid data inputs to give us reliable data outputs. Likening these simulations to The Sims is the most retarded straw man argument I've seen in a while.
 

Flauros

New member
Mar 2, 2010
475
0
0
Substance-E said:
Flauros said:
Substance-E said:
Flauros said:
Noone brings up the ozone layer. I hate to see people waiting for the fallout to disappear, waiting waiting but the radiation never goes away.....One of the things a nuclear attack can do is erase the ozone layer.....making it post-explosion radiation party time EVERYDAY as wed be completely open to space radiation. Everyone do the sad emo party dance.....
Ozone works on UV radiation. Solar wind and cosmic rays wont fry Earth till our core solidifies like Mars's and our atmosphere gets blasted into space...
Yup sure does. and?.....

What, is UV radiation the HAPPY radiation?
A lot happier than no water or air...
or eyeballs and gravity....
 

Bruden

New member
Oct 26, 2009
66
0
0
Why is Kaku still getting headlines? ...oh no wait, that's right, he's bloody insane. Never, EVER, EheheheeeeVER take anything from Kaku without a grain of salt. Seriously this guy thinks that there's 3 types of civilizations (we don't fit any of them) and the whole of his evidence for it (and examples of) come from Star Trek, Star Wars, and other similar sci-fi, scienceless bull. He also wishes to build a nuclear powered solar sail space ship. (if you understood any of that you probably know why that is impossible)

Seriously, the fact that Michio Kaku is a "scientist" makes me kinda ashamed to be a science geek. The guy has been at least as destructive to the mainstream's understanding of science as George Lucas.
 

Substance-E

New member
Sep 28, 2010
124
0
0
Flauros said:
Substance-E said:
Flauros said:
Substance-E said:
Flauros said:
Noone brings up the ozone layer. I hate to see people waiting for the fallout to disappear, waiting waiting but the radiation never goes away.....One of the things a nuclear attack can do is erase the ozone layer.....making it post-explosion radiation party time EVERYDAY as wed be completely open to space radiation. Everyone do the sad emo party dance.....
Ozone works on UV radiation. Solar wind and cosmic rays wont fry Earth till our core solidifies like Mars's and our atmosphere gets blasted into space...
Yup sure does. and?.....

What, is UV radiation the HAPPY radiation?
A lot happier than no water or air...
or eyeballs and gravity....
Indeed...
 

yayforgiveaway

New member
Aug 25, 2009
128
0
0
I understand that this guy was 'old' in the 50' of the last century and he haven't noticed all those changes to nuclear warfer. Hitting ground with nukes is sooooo yesterday, just like using those multi megatons bombs. Air-bursts have much larger destruction capability and much less fallout. The destruction wouldn't be bad enough to destroy civilization. BIOLOGICAL warfer is what we should really be afraid.
 

Eri

The Light of Dawn
Feb 21, 2009
3,626
0
0
ultrachicken said:
I'm still getting the game.
Jiraiya72 said:
Sometimes I wish Superman was real.
Uh, thanks for the input?
I'm guessing you aren't a comics fan at all. Superman always trying to get countries to disarm their nuclear devices.
 

ultrachicken

New member
Dec 22, 2009
4,303
0
0
Jiraiya72 said:
ultrachicken said:
I'm still getting the game.
Jiraiya72 said:
Sometimes I wish Superman was real.
Uh, thanks for the input?
I'm guessing you aren't a comics fan at all. Superman always trying to get countries to disarm their nuclear devices.
I used to read comics, but not superman, because he's boring for reasons I won't get into on a thread totally unrelated to superman.

I thought you were just trying to be random for attention, and I hate when people do that that. Glad there's a reason behind that statement.
 

Kraiiit

New member
Aug 15, 2010
151
0
0
Shi Shi said:
fozzy360 said:
At least Pipboys? Please, doc, tell me I can have my PIPBOY!
sorry kiddy, you have to be ten to eanr your vault citizenship and your pipboy. XD
Besides, that thing gets biometrically sealed shut, and the weight will eventually cause your Pip-arm to distort, becoming slightly longer than your other arm. The only way to get it off is to use vault-tec facilities... or a bonesaw. People in the Wasteland will instantly be able to identify you as a vault-citizen, making you the target of hit squads and raiders. So.... still want that pip-boy?

[Achievement Unlocked: Dream Crusher!]
 

Jenx

New member
Dec 5, 2007
160
0
0
This....is stupid. You mean the guy managed to figure out that a fictional post-apocalypse, that's supposed to be viewed from the 1950's point of view is not actually an accurate portrayal of what a real post-apocalyptic future might be like?

Wow, I can see why this guy is a doctor!



Seriously, what the fuck is this shit?
 

LadyRhian

New member
May 13, 2010
1,246
0
0
s69-5 said:
Zer_ said:
First we need to consider that a ground detonation results in a great deal of fallout, and in the case of war (where one country is trying to invade another) such detonations are tactically unsound. The only exception is when you are attempting to take out a fortified location such as Cheyenne Mountain.
Of course, WWIII could be an ideological battle. It really isn't that far-fetched if you think about it. In such a case, destruction, not invasion, would be the intended outcome.

Therumancer said:
In short he'd need to provide more information IMO, I confess to not being an expert, but this seems a lot like he's using the same assumption as movies like "Wargames" without taking progress into account.
Apparently, he is an expert, so maybe he'd know.

BTW, even a volcanic eruption (an explosion of sorts) sends dust into the atmosphere which can (and has, even recently) alter weather patterns.

I remember this cool summer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Pinatubo
Global environmental effects
Space Shuttle (Mission STS-43) photograph of the Earth over South America taken on August 8, 1991, showing double layer of Pinatubo aerosol cloud (dark streaks) above high cumulonimbus tops

The powerful eruption of such an enormous volume of lava and ash injected significant quantities of aerosols and dust into the stratosphere. Sulfur dioxide oxidised in the atmosphere to produce a haze of sulfuric acid droplets, which gradually spread throughout the stratosphere over the year following the eruption. The injection of aerosols into the stratosphere is thought to have been the largest since the eruption of Krakatoa in 1883, with a total mass of SO2 of about 17 million tons being injected?the largest volume ever recorded by modern instruments (see chart and figure).

This very large stratospheric injection resulted in a reduction in the normal amount of sunlight reaching the Earth's surface by roughly 10% (see figure). This led to a decrease in northern hemisphere average temperatures of 0.5?0.6 °C (0.9?1.1 °F), and a global fall of about 0.4 °C (0.7 °F).[17][18] At the same time, the temperature in the stratosphere rose to several degrees higher than normal, due to absorption of radiation by the aerosols. The stratospheric cloud from the eruption persisted in the atmosphere for three years after the eruption.
Satellite measurements of ash and aerosol emissions from Mount Pinatubo.

The eruption had a significant effect on ozone levels in the atmosphere, causing a large increase in the destruction rate of ozone. Ozone levels at mid-latitudes reached their lowest recorded levels, while in the southern hemisphere winter of 1992, the ozone hole over Antarctica reached its largest ever size until then, with the fastest recorded ozone depletion rates. The eruption of Mount Hudson in Chile in August 1991 also contributed to southern hemisphere ozone destruction, with measurements showing a sharp decrease in ozone levels at the tropopause when the aerosol clouds from Pinatubo and Hudson arrived.

Another noticeable effect of the dust in the atmosphere was the appearance of lunar eclipses. Normally even at mid-eclipse, the moon is still visible although much dimmed, but in the year following the Pinatubo eruption, the moon was hardly visible at all during eclipses, due to much greater absorption of sunlight by dust in the atmosphere.
A very large explosion (nuclear or not) will send dust and debris into the atmosphere.
Several detonations (as in a WWIII scenario) would be disastrous.
Krakatoa's eruption in 1883 did much the same. It took 5 years to recover from the temperature drop, and a number of years for weather patterns to return to those pre-eruption. And that's from a single explosion 4x the size of that of the Tsar Bomba, the largest nuclear bomb ever detonated- that's *detonated*, not *built*. It (Krakatoa) was 13,000x larger than that of "Little Boy" that was dropped on Nagasaki. The only problem is that modern nuclear weapons outdo that by a factor of 1.1 million. (Little Boy was equivalent to 20,000 tons of TNT. The first hydrogen bomb was equivalent to 100,000 tons of TNT. The bombs of today are equivalent to 2.2 billion pounds of TNT. I'll let you do the math for yourself, considering a ton is 2000 pounds).

Nuclear bombs drop? We are *all* fucked. Completely. If not from the radiation, from the fallout, lack of clean food and/or water, lack of electricity and the general inability of most people to raise our own food. Then, there is the insularity of most people today (Think, "I've got mine, you can suck on the end of my shotgun if you need anything of mine" is an isolated position today? It won't be in the future, when giving up what you have might mean the death of you and/or your loved ones.)- look at how a lot of people scream about giving up tax money to support people with less, or those who aren't able to support/help themselves- and just think about how that attitude would work in a post-apocalyptic situation.
 

alexwars1

New member
Sep 15, 2010
14
0
0
Fallout? Unrealistic? Nonsense! The giant scorpions, virus mutated ork-men, and little green space-people are all very scientifcly plausible!
 

LondonBeer

New member
Aug 1, 2010
132
0
0
Renowned physicist Dr. Michio Kaku points out water is wet & the sky is blue. Also gravity pulls things down.
 

DTWolfwood

Better than Vash!
Oct 20, 2009
3,716
0
0
I love this man, he is so charismatic when it comes to explaining Physics to the layman. Science made easy by Michio Kaku! XD