Fanservice for Women

[mechashiva77]

Yeah yeah yeah, done a thousand times I know.

A common trend I notice in this forum is the shunning of pretty boys in games. Now people are entitled to their likes and dislikes, and I am free to ignore them. What irks me though, is that the belief that they don't take into the account if the character might appeal to someone different than them. If they do realize that, then they will often chide them for being attracted to those who aren't "real men."

Now, I'm not a fan of how most women are designed in video games. I don't enjoy hulking racks, or skimpy outfits, or how they only have one-dimensional personalities. But, I do know that some people like that, and it's not my place to try and remove it from games. So I'll deal with if the game is particularly good. So why can't the same courtesy be extended toward those who are fans of pretty boys? Why must an audience who fancies a type of man be denied because they are the minority? Or why must a developer appeal to only one group instead of trying to aim for a project that some can enjoy and others can pass up if it's not their fancy?

To be fair there are a lot of people who bash the male oriented fan service, and I can understand if some feel a bit persecuted. Retaliation, however, is generally not the answer.

To sum up my unorganized rambling, just answer me this. Do you think there is a double-standard in fan service when it comes to games? Do you think that there is one at all? Should games all have "manly" heroes in order to be good?

 

[Volkov]

Game development is a business. The developers' community clearly doesn't see this particular requirement as being worth fulfilling.

Now, are they right in doing so? Probably not, there are quite a bit girl gamers out there. But the problem is...

1). There are VERY few girl developers. That'll change eventually, but currently, they are a tiny minority.
2). The industry is ATROCIOUS at recognizing what people want. Atrocious. Not providing pretty boys is a pretty insignificant issue compared to, for instance, the thought that fans actually wanted Dragon Age II the way it came out (I think by now they realized that it sucks, but I don't think they saw it coming from the start).

If the relationship between publishers (who interact with consumers directly) and developers improves (from being the extortion racket that it currently is) - maybe more requirements that consumers, like you, want, will be fulfilled. I don't think it will improve though.

 

[Swifty714]

Fan-service sells games period.

 

[Erana]

OK, I just have to put out my initial thought, even though I know everyone's opinions are different, etc, and the wording doesn't even truly reflect my understanding of the matter.
Who would want that?!

I just want them to spend their time to try to be better at character development. Seems like focusing on female fan service would be, at best, a lateral move.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

I believe that both male and female characters should be complete bad asses if that's what they are. One example: Shepard with highlights or redhead Shepard. Where would Shepard, someone who's a hardened soldier, who's seen her team being massacred before the first game and sent her next team to a suicide mission, find time to put highlights in her hair. Redhead Shepard is just based on something nerds are into.

 

[A Distant Star]

Things I dont like in my game. Women with huge racks and two dimensional personalities, few things break my sense of immersion faster then that old cliche. I dont think replicating the trend with girly boys (or manly men for that matter) is necessarily the way to go.

Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against attractive people in games, male or female, games are about escapism and sexiness is a big part of escapism, but please make them substantive. Fan service for girls get's a little more complicated. There's a general consensus of what men like. Big tits, big ass, small waist, and so on. (unless your a freak like me, I dont find that female archetype very attractive, but it seems to sell.)

What women find attractive in men is a little more nuanced and personal. Some women love chiseled jaws, chest hair a big muscles, some women dont. Some women love effeminate bishonen with long hair and smooth chins, others dont. So when your offering up fan service for women it's kind of a hit and miss. Rayden from MGS2 comes to mind. MGS2 is one of the most progressive game franchises out there and Rayden was clearly made as girl fan service, and yet he was largely rejected by the games fan base. Couple that with the fact that women are a smaller (all be it growing) demographic with in the gaming industry, I think what your asking for may be difficult the market... at least in the west. Japanese games are filled with girl fan service characters.

 

[astrav1]

Yeah yeah yeah, done a thousand times I know.

A common trend I notice in this forum is the shunning of pretty boys in games. Now people are entitled to their likes and dislikes, and I am free to ignore them. What irks me though, is that the belief that they don't take into the account if the character might appeal to someone different than them. If they do realize that, then they will often chide them for being attracted to those who aren't "real men."

Now, I'm not a fan of how most women are designed in video games. I don't enjoy hulking racks, or skimpy outfits, or how they only have one-dimensional personalities. But, I do know that some people like that, and it's not my place to try and remove it from games. So I'll deal with if the game is particularly good. So why can't the same courtesy be extended toward those who are fans of pretty boys? Why must an audience who fancies a type of man be denied because they are the minority? Or why must a developer appeal to only one group instead of trying to aim for a project that some can enjoy and others can pass up if it's not their fancy?

To be fair there are a lot of people who bash the male oriented fan service, and I can understand if some feel a bit persecuted. Retaliation, however, is generally not the answer.

To sum up my unorganized rambling, just answer me this. Do you think there is a double-standard in fan service when it comes to games? Do you think that there is one at all? Should games all have "manly" heroes in order to be good?

No, I don't think so. For every massive Chun-li thigh there is a bare-chested sleeveless Ryu out there. Also have you played an anime based game? Really, any one of them will count.

 

[AllLagNoFrag]

As mentioned above, game development is a business and people only make what sells best. Companies that make the big titles therefore take less risks and create game that appeal to the larger audience.

Games do not neccesarily have to includy "manly" heroes in order to be good, it only requires characters that compliment the storyline. Just look at a game like Catherine

 

[Gladiateher]

What games have you all been playing?? I would say that for every game I own with an over-the-top female character I own three or four others with perfectly reasonable characters of both genders. Granted a person can only buy so many games and maybe my own tastes steer me away from fan-service heavy games but, the posts in this thread so far are making games seem like absolutely shameless boobfests. I should also mention I don't play fighting games which are probably the most guilty when it comes to fan service.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

I just want them to spend their time to try to be better at character development.

Precisely that, I don't really care if a male character looks like a androgynous pretty boy as long as they're an interesting character in their own right and not just a stereotype desinged to pander to Yoai fanfic writers. Fanservice towards either gender is really just reaching towards the lowest common denominator, unless done so ironically and even then it's rather suspect.

 

[mechashiva77]

]
No, I don't think so. For every massive Chun-li thigh there is a bare-chested sleeveless Ryu out there. Also have you played an anime based game? Really, any one of them will count.

You're right, I should have included how Japanese games tend to play to that audience.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

There are plenty of Japanese games that feature pretty male protagonists. Hell, pretty much every JRPG alone. You are a little more hard-pressed in Western games, but thats more due to a bigger focus on realistic character models, a different standard of "pretty", and the fact that western guys just aren't "pretty" in the same way asians are in most cases. You know who the equivalent of a J-rock star would be over here? Justin Bieber. Do you want to play a game where the hero looks like him?

Also, we tend to prefer our heroes to be the tough, grizzeled type. At the very least, they have to look like they can get their hands dirty (like Nathan Drake, for example). But who knows, maybe one day they'll make a David Bowie game.

 

[Raika]

Should games all have "manly" heroes in order to be good?

The entire nation of Japan says 'no'. Just look at Kingdom Hearts.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Why must an audience who fancies a type of man be denied because they are the minority?

Because they're the minority. Nobody caters to the whim of the minority because, if they truly are a minority, they don't carry enough weight to sway the sales of a game. Why would someone make a game targeting the minority when the majority is the target?

To sum up my unorganized rambling, just answer me this. Do you think there is a double-standard in fan service when it comes to games? Do you think that there is one at all? Should games all have "manly" heroes in order to be good?

The archetypal male in games is the manly hero and the archetypal female is a sexy independent heroine. Neither male nor female is granted an accurate portrayal of your standard, bread and butter person. Women get the muscular man and men get the sexy woman, not a double standard.

Can tell me one good reason why changing the character to a bread and butter person is better than having the archetype other than for storytelling purposes?

 

[Mallefunction]

Why must an audience who fancies a type of man be denied because they are the minority?

Because they're the minority. Nobody caters to the whim of the minority because, if they truly are a minority, they don't carry enough weight to sway the sales of a game. Why would someone make a game targeting the minority when the majority is the target?

To sum up my unorganized rambling, just answer me this. Do you think there is a double-standard in fan service when it comes to games? Do you think that there is one at all? Should games all have "manly" heroes in order to be good?

The archetypal male in games is the manly hero and the archetypal female is a sexy independent heroine. Neither male nor female is granted an accurate portrayal of your standard, bread and butter person. Women get the muscular man and men get the sexy woman, not a double standard.

Can tell me one good reason why changing the character to a bread and butter person is better than having the archetype other than for storytelling purposes?

We're not really the minority anymore. Stats show that at least half of gamers out there are female.

OT: I dunno...I appreciate a good strong male body, but when I see it in game, that's not my real focus. I still objectify men (probably as much as the average man objectifies women) because when a guy has a great ass it's hard not to just STARE...but in games, the point is to go through the story and gameplay. Nice character and background designs are appreciated, but more often than not, it's just annoying and distracting. I'd rather average looking men, but with a great story and solid gameplay.

I say we just try our best to do away with as much fan service for both genders and focus on that. If we want to look at hot bodies, there is always porn or model mags after all.

 

[Nudu]

Do you think there is a double-standard in fan service when it comes to games?

Sure. But I don't think this goes deeper then
A. People care more about themselves then others and
B. Most gamers are male.

Should games all have "manly" heroes in order to be good?

I generally dislike character designs I find stupid. This includes both testosterone poisoned walking mountains and prepubescent boys with abstract art instead of hair.

 

[Zantos]

Redhead Shepard is just based on something nerds are into.

Pretty much all my created characters, male or female, are redheads. Some people are just born that way.

OT: I think it's just a lack of diversity in the game industry. Despite the fact that women make up a massive proportion of gamers, the industry is still massively male heavy and games are designed accordingly. There's still a few pretty boys out there, such as Dante from DMC. Mmmmmmmm, Dante. But to be honest it's already been said a fair few times in this thread, fan service is not something to focus on. I don't mind if it's in there a little, as long as someone with something better to do didn't take a month out of doing better things to make it happen.

 

[Gigano]

Isn't that what Bishounen [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishonen] games are all about?

Seems to be all about the "pretty boy" type of man you asked for. JRPG's probably have some hanging around as well.