Yess.. yess... Space marines in huge armor killing beastly aliens... Now I truly see the pouting originality beaming from the FPS genre.Xenmut said:
Fantasy games need to stop stealing from LOTR
- Thread starter Vern5
- Start date
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I'm not with you right now, if we weren't talking about originality of the setting then what were we talking about? How do fantasy RPGs do anything different compared to gears of war? They take an old premise and add their own tweaks and offer different gameplay?Xenmut said:
hahaha I hope to GOD that your joking. Implying that shooters are the innovative ones while the RPG's are stagnating, actually made me laugh.Vern5 said:
It already exists: it's called retro-science fiction / non-futuristic science fiction / (science fiction in general).Vern5 said:
"Fantasy" --> "A-Lord-of-The-Rings-Cousin".
"Science Fiction" --> "Fantasy"
("Science Fiction" <-- "somewhat-based-on-science")
"Role Play Game" --> "Customizable combat-based/loot-based Game"
("Role Play Game" <-- "any-game-with-a-protagonist")
"Sandbox" --> "You're an overpowered mass murderer in a huge city (most likely Manhattan) who stealing vehicles and blows shit up"
("Sandbox" <-- "highly-interactive-and-almost-non-scripted-game"; ex: minecraft, crayon physics, the sims, etc.)
"Arcade" --> "Unrealistic"
("Arcade" <-- "ARCADE machine")
"Adventure" --> "Point and Click"
("Adventure" <-- "a-game-in-which-(you-know)-you-go-on-an-freaking-adventure")
etc. etc. etc.
Stupid people make stupid words.
Asking fantasy games (and all fantasy medium for that matter) to stop copying LOTR is like asking FPSs' to stop copying Doom. LOTR practically invented the genre, if you aren't copying off them in some way then you aren't writing fantasy then are you? Unless you define fantasy extremely loosely but at that point then Sci-Fi is technically fantasy
While LOTR obviously didn't invent all of the mythos behind it, the point is the likes of Dragon Age and these other uninspiring WRPG all copy from the LOTR interpretation of these creatures.
Even supposed 'innovations' such as dark elves etc. are just inverting the same caricatures they're copying from Tolkein.
Even supposed 'innovations' such as dark elves etc. are just inverting the same caricatures they're copying from Tolkein.
The problem isn't that people are copying of LOTR or anything like that. Rather, it's that everyone is drawing off the same material that Tolkein did, rather than developing their own material.
Tolkein didn't invent the stuff. He put it drew material from various myths and legends, developed them, and put them in an interesting format. He just did what everyone today is doing, except that they tend to draw on the source material indirectly, through Tolkein, since he really popularized the high fantasy races and tropes.
We can all talk about how people need to mix things up in the genre, but how many of us really know how to do that? I'd like to see you do it.Seriously. I really want to see some ideas.
Oh, and fuck elves. I want to see more of the Fey Folk.
Tolkein didn't invent the stuff. He put it drew material from various myths and legends, developed them, and put them in an interesting format. He just did what everyone today is doing, except that they tend to draw on the source material indirectly, through Tolkein, since he really popularized the high fantasy races and tropes.
We can all talk about how people need to mix things up in the genre, but how many of us really know how to do that? I'd like to see you do it.Seriously. I really want to see some ideas.
Oh, and fuck elves. I want to see more of the Fey Folk.
Okay, I wasn't expecting this thread to ever resurface and I wasn't expecting to be quoted three times about how I'm apparently full of crap. Anyway, I keep seeing the "LOTR didn't invent elves and dwarves and stuff" but what I do not see is how that makes it perfectly acceptable for video game developers, who are arguably the most able to reinvent genre conventions, to constantly copy those genre conventions in regards to fantasy.
The fantasy genre (Pay special attention to this when I say FANTASY because I'm not referring to a loss of inspiration in the industry as a whole, just in the case of those games labelled as "Fantasy") needs more titles that have a refreshing setting that differentiates itself from LOTR in significant ways.
For example, when are we going to get nice, peaceful orcs? I can't remember the last time I met a nice orc in a game.
The fantasy genre (Pay special attention to this when I say FANTASY because I'm not referring to a loss of inspiration in the industry as a whole, just in the case of those games labelled as "Fantasy") needs more titles that have a refreshing setting that differentiates itself from LOTR in significant ways.
For example, when are we going to get nice, peaceful orcs? I can't remember the last time I met a nice orc in a game.
Because they're a dwarf. Your aquatic dwarf example isn't a dwarf, its an aquatic dwarf. Why gaming devs don't created new twist of the same thing like that is beyond me, but asking 'why must all dwarfs be like dwarfs' is a pointless question.I agree that I would love to see devs make some new races, but generic elves will always love trees and have pointy ears, generic dwarves will always live underground, or at the very least work with metal, and be short and stocky with beards. The instant feel I'm getting from a number of posts in this thread is that their saying 'why can't Tolkeinesque fantasy stop taking stuff from Tolkein'. The true question that should be asked is why is Tolkeinesque fantasy used so often? Answer: It sells. Note: there are also a number of posts in this thread that ask the latter question rather than the former one.Vern5 said:
Play Warcraft 3 or WoW? There are nice orcs out there, people just don't seem to notice them.Vern5 said:
Remember what happened when Stephanie Meyer came up with a new style of vampire? People spent an awful lot of time complaining she was "raping" the vampire mythos[footnote]Which has existed forever, or at least as long a people have been making movies about them.[/footnote]. Yes, sparkly vampires are rather stupid, but that wasn't the complaint many people made.
Apparently Tolkien borrowed alot of his dwarf ideas from the Jews, it's just something that's been long forgotten compared to the Vikings with scottish accent stuff nowdays.captainfluoxetine said:
In that case, all sci-fi games need to stop stealing from Starwars, and all the Total War games need to stop stealing from history. Face the fact, most media are built on ripping off what's popular. Tolkien had ideas that people liked, and so more people are going to use those ideas as a framework for their games. You can talk about how it's generic all you want, but you can't do much against the human tendency to stick with what works, for better or worse.
LOTR is the fantasy genre. how can you say works have been "borrowing" from it when nearly every single one since its creation some 80/90 years ago have used the same elements? you might as well tell stories to stop having love interests and comic relief. LOTR itself is just a mash-up of european/nordic mythology, and retelling mythology is pretty much what the fantasy genre is.
your options are tolkien-esque or eastern fantasy; unless you feel more games need to be made with re-tellings of african mythology, there isnt much mythology left that hasnt been retold. its like getting of tired of sci-fi for constantly featuring space.
your options are tolkien-esque or eastern fantasy; unless you feel more games need to be made with re-tellings of african mythology, there isnt much mythology left that hasnt been retold. its like getting of tired of sci-fi for constantly featuring space.