Fantasy RPGs: Why is it always the same?

[Poomanchu745]

So when it comes to making a fantasy game the rules seem to be made of stone. Elves like trees, humans live in the city, and dwarves love big ass stone statues and living underground. But why? It seems like everyone has taken the Tolkien thing and sort of said, "OK thats how it is". But really its fantasy which by definition just means it can be whatever the fuck you want it to be. I think it would be nice to see a fantasy RPG where every elf wasn't a tree hugger. Maybe instead they were lumberjacks by trade and pirates in their downtime. I mean it just seems like the whole genre is stagnant and changing it up a little might do it some good.

We have seen developers trying to duplicate teh WoW success with new fantasy MMORPGs and pretty much failing so now they are trying new things (super heros, futuristic shooters, ect). Maybe all they need to do is keep a solid foundation and mix up the lore. Its fantasy and made up so nothing would be considered "wrong", just different.

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

Didnt Yahtzee talk about this in his Dragon Age: Origins review?

 

[Poomanchu745]

Didnt Yahtzee talk about this in his Dragon Age: Origins review?

Uh not sure. He might have touched on the standard stuff. But i was just thinking about it because of something one of the Blizzard guys said. Something to the effect that people should just quit trying to copy wow and stop making fantasy MMORPGs. Which i think is a dumb statement because you can literally do anything with fantasy.

 

[kawaiiamethist]

Tolkien didn't pull his mythology out of his ass, fantasy creatures, such as the elves and dwarves you spoke of, come from actual mythology. Depending on which country and even areas of a country, you come from, the principles that make up a fantasy creature differ. But in the prevailing imagination we know that elves are androgenous, pointy earred tree huggers, and dwarves are short, bearded miners who live underground. There is recognition of lesser creatures though, usually in summons and area monsters.

But I guess you refer more to fantasy as a whole and the game industry not drawing upon the ever popular medieval approach. Well, it does happen every so often.

Just look at series like Shadow Hearts, Final Fantasy (well, VII, VIII, X and XIII) and Star Ocean. Shadow Hearts is early 1900s fantasy fun that plays with history, including events and figures. Some of the more recent FF installments create an entirely new world to explore, taking cues from our world with mobile phones, submarines, modern fashions, school systems that resemble our own, language, sport, and advanced technology. While I've only just began a Star Ocean game, the fact that it's an RPG-adventure game that takes place in space speaks for itself.

Other games I have played that borrowed from myth norms, but didn't indulge are:

- Last Remnant
- Lost Odyssey
- Enchanted Arms

The fact is, magic is so integral to the RPG experience and it has to come from somewhere. If not from a magical being or from stones or whatever, the only other route is technology, and from there the developer is likely to walk down the steam punk road. That isn't a bad thing, but sooner or later, there will be monsters and some wizard behind it all.

 

[Mr Scott]

It's Tolkein's fault.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Making a game where elves are technology loving polluters and dwarves are tree hugging hippies is just as stupid as following the archetypes. I do agree that people need to maybe try some new ideas, but the problem with many of the games that do is that they don't sell well or receive much exposure and are thus lost.

 

[skyfire_freckles]

I see where you're coming from in this. Fantasy can be anything, and is not limited to tolkein-style, medieval, elves-and-dwarves sort of thing. Much as I loved Dragon Age, it really was the dark hordes of Mordor.

Thing is, take a look at the word fantasy. You have fantasies every day. You think about that girl/guy you'd like to get with, you think about what it would be like to live in another time, to have millions of dollars. This is fantasy. From this perspective, all games are fantasy games. I could just go on and on about this.

Something new? Can we have something new and still have anyone call it fantasy? Maybe I'll start a new thread. Have people name fantasy they've read, watched or played that didn't have elves in it.

 

[Compassrosa]

Yahtzee did mention that elves are as usual in love with trees and shooting bows. It would be cool to see fantasy become less rigid. Designers just need to stop being so scared of taking a chance. Yeah, some people will be upset, but f*** 'em.

And Dragon Age in particular was a drag. I should be able to make my own decisions in an rpg.

 

[NeutralDrow]

They should make a Shannara RPG. The elves aren't so opposed to cities, the dwarves are claustrophobic gardeners, the trolls are sophisticated warriors, the gnomes are savage raiders, and a good chunk of the humans are nomadic.

 

[Internet Kraken]

These archetypes are sued because they have been proven to be effective. Going with something completley different just for the sake of being different is very risky and often unwise. Many developers choose to stick with themes that have already been established out of safety. I don't really consider this to be a problem though. Perhaps I'm more tolerant of tropes.

They should make a Shannara RPG. The elves aren't so opposed to cities, the dwarves are claustrophobic gardeners, the trolls are sophisticated warriors, the gnomes are savage raiders, and a good chunk of the humans are nomadic.

But then you're not really making new characters. Your just swapping everyone's names.

 

[Lost In The Void]

Dragon Age has brought this on hasn't it?
Not all Fantasy games follow the same lore, Dragon Age is just a massive rip off of Tolkiens work.

Though IMO an amazing rip off of his work

 

[NeutralDrow]

They should make a Shannara RPG. The elves aren't so opposed to cities, the dwarves are claustrophobic gardeners, the trolls are sophisticated warriors, the gnomes are savage raiders, and a good chunk of the humans are nomadic.

But then you're not really making new characters. Your just swapping everyone's names.

With who? The elves are still forest-oriented but more urban and the gnomes are somewhere between humans and goblins (except the Stors), but the dwarves and trolls are completely different.

 

[Compassrosa]

They should make a Shannara RPG. The elves aren't so opposed to cities, the dwarves are claustrophobic gardeners, the trolls are sophisticated warriors, the gnomes are savage raiders, and a good chunk of the humans are nomadic.

I *love* Shannara's dwarves! I had some problems with Brooks' propensity for over-description in his books, but those dwarves redeemed everything for me.

 

[Alex_P]

It's Tolkein's fault.

It's not exactly Tolkien. It's Tolkien filtered through Dungeons & Dragons and crappy paperbacks.

So when it comes to making a fantasy game the rules seem to be made of stone. Elves like trees, humans live in the city, and dwarves love big ass stone statues and living underground. But why?

Because it's easier not to make stuff up yourself, because using familiar stuff cuts down on exposition (although bad games and novels will tend to throw the exposition at you anyway), and because, fundamentally, that's what the audience wants.

-- Alex

 

[Internet Kraken]

They should make a Shannara RPG. The elves aren't so opposed to cities, the dwarves are claustrophobic gardeners, the trolls are sophisticated warriors, the gnomes are savage raiders, and a good chunk of the humans are nomadic.

But then you're not really making new characters. Your just swapping everyone's names.

With who? The elves are still forest-oriented but more urban and the gnomes are somewhere between humans and goblins (except the Stors), but the dwarves and trolls are completely different.

By that I mean your just changing the name of an established archetype. Making the Trolls the sophisticated warriors doesn't really change anything. You've just swapped the races that fill the role of a sophisticated warrior. You'd still interact with them the same way as if they were any other race in that same role.

 

[Zing]

I'm a jumberlack and I'm okay..

I just had to go there...yarr.

 

[TheDoctor455]

Actually, I think I'm rather doing something different with a fantasy world I'm developing (not sure what format to tell the story in yet, need to build up the basic rules and lore first). Several schools of magic, no one really knows where it comes from (some don't really care). Some think its from the land, some think its from their gods, and some go for a more scientific explanation (which I have yet to come up with... haven't exactly decided how good the tech is in my fantasy world, which I have yet to name). Humans are split into two main categories: civilized and tribal. The civilized ones tend to stick with their version of the Catholic church (which is oppressing and trying to convert/wipe out the tribals), and the tribals are mostly losing a battle for survival and for the land. There are dwarves, but they're just short, drunk humans. There were elves once, but they have long since vanished due to a combination of several wars, a few mass self-imposed/forced migrations, and interbreeding (not necessarily in that order). And that's about as far as I've gotten, but I think I am trying to be a bit more original, let me know if you think otherwise.

EDIT: sorry for derailing a little bit, so.. PM me if you have comments about my concept. And back to the original topic...

I think the main reason that most game designers and film-makers stick with the Tolkien-esque setting is because they have a limited amount of time to come up with a new world, so they will inevitably borrow elements from other sources, if not out-right stealing from them. This is especially true for game designers, because they have to work hard just to make the gameplay work right, let alone building an entirely new world in time with the publisher's often ludicrously short schedules.