Fantasy RPGs: Why is it always the same?

[similar.squirrel]

The Tolkien blueprint spawned Dungeons and Dragons and the like, which led directly to the fantasy RPG videogame genre.
There are deviations, though. It's just that high-fantasy has some set parameters. Just like almost every sci-fi game includes some kind of FTL travel.

 

[skyfire_freckles]

I see where you're coming from in this. Fantasy can be anything, and is not limited to tolkein-style, medieval, elves-and-dwarves sort of thing. Much as I loved Dragon Age, it really was the dark hordes of Mordor.

Thing is, take a look at the word fantasy. You have fantasies every day. You think about that girl/guy you'd like to get with, you think about what it would be like to live in another time, to have millions of dollars. This is fantasy. From this perspective, all games are fantasy games. I could just go on and on about this.

Something new? Can we have something new and still have anyone call it fantasy? Maybe I'll start a new thread. Have people name fantasy they've read, watched or played that didn't have elves in it.

Anything with Vikings?

Anything with anything in it.

Here's mine: Conan!

Ah the Hyborian Hulk.
I'd say anything Viking, but thats Mythological.

Almost anything Viking; a true story about an actual Viking wouldn't be fantasy, but Vikings are cool. I taped a show about them on Discovery. Accidentally taped over it, though.

 

[ejb626]

Its all the damn Vikings' faults they're the ones who made that stuff about dwarves, dragons, elves, humans, trolls, giants etc. up now everyone thinks they wrote the bible on fantasy or something, Tolkien made fantasy based on their mythology popular and now no one can stop.

 

[Axolotl]

I want to point out to all the people saying it's because of Tolkein that the blame would more accurately lie with Gygax in most situations, which is kind of ironic really.

 

[JoonaspEST]

The theme might be old but if developer continue to upgrade it then it's fine.


The Tolkienian theme is so wide term that it can be twisted so much that i would expect at least few dozens of years of RPG's with that theme. A million variations of dwarfs and elves can be made.

Also the behaviour and looks of dwarfs for example are burned into the name. You see incomparison of humans dwarfs are dwarfed. Small stature makes them defensive, reluctant, enclosed to their cities. They hide in mountains because even if they are strong they have complexes. They are afraid that they would be stampeeded by stronger beigns.

Elf's in other hand are embodiments of beauty ideals of humans. The beautiness makes them more stronger autorithy in the world. They are regarded as wise, guiders of humanity so forth.

For humans. Their behaviour in fantasy worlds reflects their real life counterparts. Ambitious, progressive, tehnology centered, expantionist. Look at our progress in real life and you see human behaviour in fantasy games.

Now you may wonder what was my text for. You see if you want to change the fantasy theme then you essentialy change the apperance of the races presented in game. For dwarfs makeing them bigger means they aren't dwarfs anymore. Elf would be changed into something more ugly perhaps. Makeing something compleatly new in fantasy theme means alot of work.

 

[Redem]

maybe you need to play a few more RPGs made in the Eastern parts of the world. They often have different classes, character archetypes, creative storylines, etc.

Oh believe me the burning of your home town can take place in any setting

 

[TheDuckbunny]

maybe you need to play a few more RPGs made in the Eastern parts of the world. They often have different classes, character archetypes, creative storylines, etc.

Oh believe me the burning of your home town can take place in any setting

It's funny because it's true.

 

[BloodSquirrel]

So when it comes to making a fantasy game the rules seem to be made of stone. Elves like trees, humans live in the city, and dwarves love big ass stone statues and living underground. But why? It seems like everyone has taken the Tolkien thing and sort of said, "OK thats how it is". But really its fantasy which by definition just means it can be whatever the fuck you want it to be. I think it would be nice to see a fantasy RPG where every elf wasn't a tree hugger. Maybe instead they were lumberjacks by trade and pirates in their downtime. I mean it just seems like the whole genre is stagnant and changing it up a little might do it some good.

We have seen developers trying to duplicate teh WoW success with new fantasy MMORPGs and pretty much failing so now they are trying new things (super heros, futuristic shooters, ect). Maybe all they need to do is keep a solid foundation and mix up the lore. Its fantasy and made up so nothing would be considered "wrong", just different.

I'm going to go ahead and give a good reason: The standard medieval fantasy world is a highly versatile story setting.

It provides for good 'always chaotic evil' villains like the darkspawn. It provides good politically natured enemies, like rival kings and evil overlords. It provides magic, which can be used to justify almost any setting features they want.

Overall, it just works. It's a very broad setting, and the people who use it do customize it a lot.

 

[Axeli]

The theme might be old but if developer continue to upgrade it then it's fine.


The Tolkienian theme is so wide term that it can be twisted so much that i would expect at least few dozens of years of RPG's with that theme. A million variations of dwarfs and elves can be made.

Also the behaviour and looks of dwarfs for example are burned into the name. You see incomparison of humans dwarfs are dwarfed. Small stature makes them defensive, reluctant, enclosed to their cities. They hide in mountains because even if they are strong they have complexes. They are afraid that they would be stampeeded by stronger beigns.

Elf's in other hand are embodiments of beauty ideals of humans. The beautiness makes them more stronger autorithy in the world. They are regarded as wise, guiders of humanity so forth.

For humans. Their behaviour in fantasy worlds reflects their real life counterparts. Ambitious, progressive, tehnology centered, expantionist. Look at our progress in real life and you see human behaviour in fantasy games.

Now you may wonder what was my text for. You see if you want to change the fantasy theme then you essentialy change the apperance of the races presented in game. For dwarfs makeing them bigger means they aren't dwarfs anymore. Elf would be changed into something more ugly perhaps.

No, no, no.

If you go and change the old Tolkienian high-fantasy setting, you are still copying the man all the same, only desperately trying to make it seem like you aren't. Why would there be dwarves, elves, orcs and wizards in the first place?
You start with the idea that there should be, your effort in being original is doomed completely no matter how much you try to mix things up. Consult the point 22. [http://www.rinkworks.com/fnovel/]

Makeing something compleatly new in fantasy theme means alot of work.

That is definitely not an excuse. If you aren't going to bother write something of your own, don't write at all.

And it's definitely not like there aren't writers who have made their own fantasy setting, or better yet, multiple ones through their career.

 

[Dexiro]

I guess it's sort of a universal thing, like it's easy for someone to say "i like trees so i'll go with elves" or something.

It'd be good if they just dropped the whole elf, dwarf and human thing completly though and find the creativity to come up with something unique.

Why not have an underwater rpg where the dominant species are dolphins or something. Why not figure some way to have a race thats quadrupedal. Or the least they could do is think of variations of widely used races instead of making blatant copies.

 

[Remleiz]

Why not have an underwater rpg where the dominant species are dolphins or something. Why not figure some way to have a race thats quadrupedal. Or the least they could do is think of variations of widely used races instead of making blatant copies.

So, like, have Mermaids and Shark people or something?

 

[Flamezdudes]

They take the basic's with Elves etc like you said but in Bioware's case with Dragon Age, create their own world and lore so its not all the same.

 

[Axeli]

I guess it's sort of a universal thing, like it's easy for someone to say "i like trees so i'll go with elves" or something.

It'd be good if they just dropped the whole elf, dwarf and human thing completly though and find the creativity to come up with something unique.

Why not have an underwater rpg where the dominant species are dolphins or something. Why not figure some way to have a race thats quadrupedal. Or the least they could do is think of variations of widely used races instead of making blatant copies.

And... Why exactly does there need to be a handful of different fantasy races in the first place?

Are people really this unable to look at the concept of "fantasy" from any other starting point that LotR?

 

[Axolotl]

Except Dragon Age is virtually the definition of the GFS, you really need to do something more different than that to have an interesting setting, nevermind one that could provide a fresh or original experience.
The irritating part is that it isn't difficult to come up with an oriinal fantasy setting. I could probably provide over a hundred examples of settings from PnP or literature that would provide a fantasy setting unlike any used in previous RPGs.

 

[Alex_P]

And... Why exactly does there need to be a handful of different fantasy races in the first place?

Indeed! Racial essentialism seldom adds anything good to a setting.

-- Alex

 

[Axeli]

And... Why exactly does there need to be a handful of different fantasy races in the first place?

Indeed! Racial essentialism seldom adds anything good to a setting.

-- Alex

It seldom does.

 

[Dexiro]

And... Why exactly does there need to be a handful of different fantasy races in the first place?

Good point xD

It's nice to have a bit of variety though

 

[More Fun To Compute]

As I see it, many Fantasy fans are extremely conservative in terms of what content they want. Some of us look at something like the Forgotten Realms and despair at how bland it all is but it's fans look at it as a stamp of authenticity. If something is Forgotten Realms then the writers are not allowed to mess up their wonderful fantasy settings. I bet that those people don't read China Mieville novels either, and if they did they would complain about how it isn't proper fantasy.

It's not just that it's that non-GFS fantasy settings don't sell.

I'm probably being dense here, but does GFS mean the same as high fantasy?

 

[Axolotl]

I'm probably being dense here, but does GFS mean the same as high fantasy?

Not really GFS is the whole DnD as done by Ed Greenwood.
High Fantasy is just fantasy with no attept at realism and with a more epic and not gritty feel. So Narnia or possibly the John Carter series could qyalify as high fantasy, but they're both a long way from the GFS.