Fat Shaming.

[Tsun Tzu]

"Fatshaming" itself is just a stupid concept and "fat acceptance" is inherently detrimental to the individuals it supposedly supports. Ya know the sort. This is Thin Privilege and what-not.

However.

To me, this isn't a fat shaming issue. This is just people being rude, obnoxious trolls. The fact being fat is being mentioned is secondary to that.

This.

Doing this kinda stuff? It's just an asshole thing to do. I mean, just look at that phrasing, "perverted chubby-lover"?

Seriously?

If this were online, I'd call it a troll and move on, but this takes a lot more effort than typing up some bullshit and jetting.

 

[Odbarc]

If you renamed 'Fat Shaming' to 'Choice Shaming' people would probably be more for it.
This way you can also include other bad choices you incorporate into other peoples lives like driving poorly, being rude and smoking.

But from a perspective of a hobbyist bodybuilder, when I was in my early 20's, I couldn't gain weight over 200lbs. I'm in my 30's now and I can't get it below 200lbs. Luckily some of that weight is muscle and height but it makes a lot of sense to me that there could easily be people who don't have the time to manage their calorie intake and expense to be thinner due to other responsibilities.

If a man is working all day and comes home to a wife's home cooked meal and happens to be 30+lbs over weight, there isn't much he's going to be able to do other than starve himself with some awful vegan diet most people of nominal weight would ever manage themselves.

But then there's also that kind of people whose horrifically gluttonous, whose sole purpose seems to be to indulge their appetites and take up space. There aren't many of them but they all seem to be the fattest of us all and have the worst attitudes and personalities of any people.

 

[Rastrelly]

There are two reasons for a person to be fat: medical and stupid. It's wrong to blame people who are unable to lose weight for being fat. It's right to do so for people who actually got fat just because. There is such a thing as civil duty, y'know, and being healthy is more or less a part of it. And no, I'm not supporter of underweight people as well. Anorexic people have exactly the same two reasons to be the way they are.

 

[Lieju]

And no one forced people who are fat to eat more then 2500 calories each day.

Becoming addicted to a substance you are already consuming is significantly easier than becoming addicted to one you're aware is deadly and have to make a conscious effort...as an adult...to expose yourself to. This is so abundantly self-evident I'm having trouble understanding how anyone could debate the point while keeping a straight face.

It's a bad analogy.

And speaking as someone who has had drastic changes in their appetite and hunger due to disease (and treatments of those diseases...) people experience hunger and appetite differently. At some point I became overweight because of my medication. I ate exactly the same food as before but needed more food to feel full. After I stopped that medication my weight returned to normal with zero effort on my part because my brain suddenly was fine after a smaller meal when before it left me hungry.

And now I'm starting to be dangerously underweight because I have no appetite and become nauseous when I eat. (And people will tell me how I look GOOD, because they think thin equals healthy, even though even the period when I was overweight I was more healthy.)

They tried a medication with me that's used to treat eating disorders since it's supposed to increase appetite... Which it kinda did? I was constantly feeling like I was about to die of hunger, but when I tried to eat my body would go 'nope' and throw up, and even when I could work through the nausea I had no real appetite, no actual desire to eat, nothing looked good and I had zero interest in the food.

So I was constantly starving but didn't really want to eat.

You can't tell how easy it is for a person to keep a certain weight or how healthy they are just by looking at them, not that it's any of your business, and shaming people for it is shitty and counterproductive if you want to help them lead healthier lives.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

They tried a medication with me that's used to treat eating disorders since it's supposed to increase appetite... Which it kinda did? I was constantly feeling like I was about to die of hunger, but when I tried to eat my body would go 'nope' and throw up, and even when I could work through the nausea I had no real appetite, no actual desire to eat, nothing looked good and I had zero interest in the food.

Curious if you remember what it was called.

The girlfriend has been on a variety of medications over the years for bi-polar/depression, and they tried one once that (as it turns out...not something she was informed of at the time) was used to treat eating disorders...exactly as you describe. She gained 50 lbs in about two months. Was just devouring food like a locust. Go online, read testimonials from people eating handfuls of sugar right out of a bag. She gets off it, is back to her original weight inside of two months, with zero extra dieting/exercise. Fucking HORRENDOUS drug. It was like pulling the rip cord on an inflatable raft.

That was one of several highly dangerous/ill advised drugs she was put on before she finally dumped her psychiatrist and found a new mental health team.

 

[Lieju]

They tried a medication with me that's used to treat eating disorders since it's supposed to increase appetite... Which it kinda did? I was constantly feeling like I was about to die of hunger, but when I tried to eat my body would go 'nope' and throw up, and even when I could work through the nausea I had no real appetite, no actual desire to eat, nothing looked good and I had zero interest in the food.

Curious if you remember what it was called.

The girlfriend has been on a variety of medications over the years for bi-polar/depression, and they tried one once that (as it turns out...not something she was informed of at the time) was used to treat eating disorders...exactly as you describe. She gained 50 lbs in about two months. Was just devouring food like a locust. Go online, read testimonials from people eating handfuls of sugar right out of a bag. She gets off it, is back to her original weight inside of two months, with zero extra dieting/exercise. Fucking HORRENDOUS drug. It was like pulling the rip cord on an inflatable raft.

That was one of several highly dangerous/ill advised drugs she was put on before she finally dumped her psychiatrist and found a new mental health team.

I think it was Mirtazapin. But it was tried on me specifically to treat anxiety and loss of appetite. But yeah, it was horrible since I couldn't even eat... I think lot of medication used to treat depression and/or bipolar disorder causes changes in appetite but that wasn't just a change in appetite, it made me feel like I was constantly dying of hunger even when I should have been full.

And I failed to gain weight even on it so it was just torture and din't even do what it was supposed to.

 

[Drops a Sweet Katana]

My one and only reaction to these people:
Seriously, that's just bang outta line, no matter how you look at it.

 

[MoltenSilver]

Uhgl, all the discussion about fat itself aside, can we at least all agree that this is abject sociopathy, that exists for the sole purpose of giving jollies to the sadists handing these out? Seriously I'd lock each of these people in a cell and throw away the key if I could before they can do more damage.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

(Generalizing, obviously) I feel like I've noticed online over the years that the UK has serious problems with fat people. It's really weird. I suspect it has to do with a hatred of American culture which is currently associated with being overfed and "gluttonous." I mean, I'm pretty sure the UK diet is even worse than the US for the most part. I just heard about prawn mayo sandwiches. It's just strange that someone or a group of people could become so incensed to leave an angry note about a person's appearance, personal choice or not. Imagine changing this card to finding a certain religious dress "offensive" or telling a bald person to wear a wig. We live in a world full of different people who didn't ask for your permission to exist. Grow up. I guess this is what you get with socialized medicine. Yech.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

From the article:

"Steve Burton, of Transport for London, said this "sad and unpleasant" form of anti-social behaviour "would not be tolerated", and urged any people affected to report it to police or a station officer."

Having not been to London in close to a decade, would someone explain this? Can you actually be arrested for this, or is this just "we're kicking you off the train for being a nuisance"?

 

[zelda2fanboy]

And no one forced people who are fat to eat more then 2500 calories each day. The average adult's stomach can only handle 900ml of liquid at any given time in terms of volume, and it's no secret which foods can be eaten in small quantities with make you feel full.

In some ways it can be a secret, thanks to the barrage of conflicting information. One month "not eating carbs" is the best, healthiest way to lose weight. The next, "not eating protein" is in fashion and did you know that cutting out carbs is bad for you. There are so many people that want to sell a pill or a new diet that they intentionally saturate the market with mutually exclusive statements.

There are also so many "hidden" calories in food (and labelling varies by country depending on national laws so in some places it is much worse, for example compare the USA with the UK in this regard). Some food additives are highly addictive and banned in one country rather than another, but even ones still allowed on the market can be nasty (MSG I'm looking at you). Some studies suggest that sugar may be as addictive as cocaine, for example. Soft drinks are a well-known carrier of "empty calories" but they can sneak their way into all sorts of things - "low fat" foods are particularly bad for this. Fat naturally tastes good, so foods that have the fat content reduced tend to taste a bit bland, and therefore companies try to increase the palatability (and thus marketability) of their products by adding excessive amounts of sugar. Then there is all the other crap they add to try to add the texture and feeling of fullness the fat would have created - there's a cellulose ingredient that is added to a lot of "diet foods" which is essentially wallpaper paste. Crap like that is not healthy, yet it is marketed as such.

For someone who has been overweight for a long time, they may in fact need to consume over 2500 calories a day. You see, if you drastically cut your caloric intake then your body essentially goes into a starvation mode, converting increased amounts of carbohydrate chains into fats and lowering your metabolism to prevent the burning of fat stores. Therefore eating 3,000 calories per day will lead to more effective and sustainable weight-loss than a simple quasi-starvation diet to fit in with the "recommended" daily allowances. Such a person may even need to paradoxically increase how many calories they were otherwise eating if they begin an exercise plan in order to maintain suitable metabolic function. Naturally this should be established with your doctor/dietician rather than used as an excuse, but the platitude "no one makes them eat more than 2500 calories" is simplistic (not to mention highly fit people who may need far in excess of 2500 calories to maintain their physique and their levels of exercise).

I feel obligated to direct you to this man, if you haven't heard of him before. https://twitter.com/raycronise He's putting out a book in a few months to discuss the weight loss program he developed that he's been testing on other people, namely Penn of Penn and Teller. He recently went on a three week fast to prove there is no "starvation mode" and the mathematical equation of burning calories holds up even when eating nothing at all (medically supervised, of course). However, that doesn't work quite as well as dieting normally. He's based his diet on Joel Fuhrman's books, which basically says that if one stuffs one's gut with fruits and vegetables in unlimited quantities (with no butter and no oil), it's impossible not to lose weight because those foods can't contain enough calories to maintain obesity. His recipes taste like crap for the most part, though, and the adjustment period is loooong. Better off just eating the ingredients, but fruits and veggies can be really tasty, especially after fasting for a little while.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

He's based his diet on Joel Fuhrman's books, which basically says that if one stuffs one's gut with fruits and vegetables in unlimited quantities...

Wouldn't you get really ill?

Pretty sure humans have dietary needs beyond what is found solely in fruit and veg.

 

[DoPo]

if one stuffs one's gut with fruits and vegetables in unlimited quantities (with no butter and no oil), it's impossible not to lose weight because those foods can't contain enough calories to maintain obesity.

Umm, I find that really hard to believe. Like, it makes no logical sense at all when I try to process it. I'd like to read something more formal about it. Preferably not an entire book - are there any articles or papers on the matter?

 

[Parasondox]

From the article:

"Steve Burton, of Transport for London, said this "sad and unpleasant" form of anti-social behaviour "would not be tolerated", and urged any people affected to report it to police or a station officer."

Having not been to London in close to a decade, would someone explain this? Can you actually be arrested for this, or is this just "we're kicking you off the train for being a nuisance"?

Well, you can and can't be arrest, per say. There are British Transport Police who can stop and fine you for harassment and, depending on the matter, arrest you. There has been a rise in abuse on public transport from racial to sexual, that is coming to light because more people are reporting them. From people shouting on the Central about how all blacks should go home to others flashing and groping passengers, even during busy peak time journey's, more and more people are coming forward about these things. BTP and TFL are taking each of those cases seriously and rightfully so. Which can lead to said offenders banned from using their services or face going to court. So being a prick to other passengers verbally or physically can land you in a lot of mess. So good luck trying to get to work cause you have been banned from transport services and have no car. Taxis aren't cheap in central London.

Oh goodie, loaded internet topic #913. I look forward to everyone getting pissed that their opinion isn't universal before talking about how right they are and everyone who disagrees with them just doesn't get it while refusing to admit any flaw in their arguments, no matter how minor.

And can we at least agree that flat out insulting people is a bad thing? Or are we too angry to even admit that anymore? Because I feel like we're letting real world issues slide under our view in favor of having ideological clash number one million and ten. Like we're more concerned in having our world view reaffirmed than actually talking about what's happening.

Reason why I created this tread. That there is no excuse for this behaviour and people don't have the right to be dicks. Others have gone beyond the main headline but I expected that. I've already read a few here that are just said and leaning towards those who gave the cards out to passengers.

Golden rule should universally be, "Don't be a fucking prick".

 

[Nazulu]

And now we're asshole shaming, and such is the natural order

But seriously, if you really think insulting people will help them, then we'll assume you have problems. Everyone operates differently, you can't just prescribe the same treatment for everyone until you know how they came to be as they are, that's how professional help works. This should be common sense.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

He's based his diet on Joel Fuhrman's books, which basically says that if one stuffs one's gut with fruits and vegetables in unlimited quantities...

Wouldn't you get really ill?

Pretty sure humans have dietary needs beyond what is found solely in fruit and veg.

I know, it's weird. Fuhrman's books are filled with stories of people who no longer have diabetes, arthritis, skin conditions, high blood pressure, and heart disease from strictly eating the "FNGBOMBS" - fruits, nuts, greens, beans, onions, mushrooms, berries, and seeds. Penn Jillette and all his friends have lost weight trying this, as well as "cold therapy" or cold showers and swimming in cold water, and have so far kept it off. The point Ray Cronise is that people really don't need as much food as they eat and that overweight people have all the calories they might need already stored up. You can go a really long time before any deficiencies become apparent, and usually compensate for them within the already set dietary restrictions. Unfortunately, Penn and his gang aren't completely 100% forthcoming because their books are coming out in the next year or so, so we'll have to wait to find out everything they did in detail.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

if one stuffs one's gut with fruits and vegetables in unlimited quantities (with no butter and no oil), it's impossible not to lose weight because those foods can't contain enough calories to maintain obesity.

Umm, I find that really hard to believe. Like, it makes no logical sense at all when I try to process it. I'd like to read something more formal about it. Preferably not an entire book - are there any articles or papers on the matter?

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/met.2014.0027

Haven't read through it myself yet, but it looks like it echoes what he's said on his various podcast appearances.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I know, it's weird. Fuhrman's books are filled with stories of people who no longer have diabetes, arthritis, skin conditions, high blood pressure, and heart disease from strictly eating the "FNGBOMBS" - fruits, nuts, greens, beans, onions, mushrooms, berries, and seeds.

Well I'm skeptical but I guess anything is possible. The addition of legumes to the mix broadens the field a bit.

Generally speaking eating a lot of those foods in favor of other caloric intake and then losing weight is one of those "well duh" equations that we shouldn't really need nutritionists or fad diets to alert us to.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Well I'm skeptical but I guess anything is possible. The addition of legumes to the mix broadens the field a bit.

Generally speaking eating a lot of those foods in favor of other caloric intake and then losing weight is one of those "well duh" equations that we shouldn't really need nutritionists or fad diets to alert us to.

Yeah, it seems obvious until you actually try it and then stop. It's amazing how much utter crap I eat without even realizing it and how differently I felt on and off the diet. Strangely, I never missed meat and, being a skinny fellow to begin with, didn't lose much weight at all. I tried it with an overweight person I know who lost 20 lbs on it. We did that about two months ago, then went back to eating convenient processed foods again and having Thanksgiving. However, the weight never came back on the overweight person. My weight stayed the same.