Favorite Representation of Undeath in a Game?

[SajuukKhar]

Yeah, but that's hardly ever touched upon save for a sidequest in Morrowind (I think) and the darkest, most obscure corners of the lore. I doubt most people even know about it.

If people dont take the time to read all the books they shouldn't expect to know..... well anything about the game.

I get tired of games like Mass Effect handing everything to players on a silver-platter because it ends up making everyone feel...... kinda like walking dictionaries/encyclopedias, and the very idea of a "codex" is an abomination that if I could I would remove from Bioware's games. Lore should not be treated like dictionary quotes.

a good RPG makes you work for the story, which is what the Es series does, it takes a fuck-ton of work to understand the REAL story of The Elder scrolls.

They integrate visual clues into the world one will only ever understand if they read the books.

they have shown in-game that Talos, Lorkhan, sithis, and akatosh are the same being, yet most people dont know it because they dont pay attention.
.
.
.
but back on topic........... Necrons are the best undead things in video games.

 

[Hazzard]

That's mine, hands down.

What is that? I've seen the picture before but don't know what it is.

My favorite representation of undead is when they aren't dangerous if controlled and can be used to benefit society.

 

[ramboondiea]

[spoiler/][img/]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/8920/843339-auron_super.jpg[/img][/spoiler]

yeah this guy, just for coat and alcoholism really haha.

but got to give props to raziel, i hope those rumours of a sequel are true

 

[SajuukKhar]

Isn't that a bit of an unfair expectation though? I've always found the books in the TES games to be dreadfully dull most of the time, and Oblivion itself was about rural settings and medieval combat in forest landscapes. If you're going to hide cool details about the universe in books, at least hint at them in a way that makes people think there's something more to the universe than what it is at first sight.

Better yet, if you have all that interesting stuff happen off-screen, then... why does it happen off-screen? Planescape: Torment was set in an outerworldly city set on top of an infinitely tall spire located somewhere within the Afterlife. That does WAY more to my interest level than reading random books in a boring library hoping to find clues about the ancient mind of God.

Is it unfair to expect people to explore all of the world to understand all of the world? No. I wouldn't expect people to fully understand Mass Effect without finding every codex entry and talking to every single person, nor would it be good game design to let people get away with not talking to everyone, or finding every codex entry.

Also they DO hint at these things in the game beyond the books, in things you have seen a dozen times in the games. Spoilered due to length.

Spoiler

Look at the statue of Talos in Whiterun, he is standing on top of a snake with its own open, and he is aiming his sword at the snakes open mouth.

Spoiler

This is important as the ancient Nords use to use animals to represent their gods, three of these animals were the snake, whale, and Hawk. You undoubtedly remember these animals from those spinning pillar puzzles in Nordic ruins.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Dragon_War

Lets see what gods they might represent
Sep (The Snake): Yokudan version of Lorkhan.
Shor (God of the Underworld): Nordic version of Lorkhan
The Snake = Sep = Lorkhan = Shor
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith_in_the_Empire

Now look at one of the shrines to Akatosh, the easiest one to find is in the Temple of the Divines in solitude, we can clearly see a Dragon's head and a Dragon's wings but if you look closely he does NOT have a dragons body, he has the body of a snake. furthermore his mouth is open and a sword in going into it.

Akatosh = a snake bodied god with his mouth open and a sword going into it
Lorkhan = a snake bodied god with his mouth open and a sword going into it

Akatosh = Lorkhan

Furthermore look at the stained glass window that was in all the temples in Oblivion

Spoiler

He has two heads, one of a dragon, one of a man. You know who the god of man is? Lorkhan

It isn't that they dont throw visual clues in many places, it's that somehow people dont connect snake on pillar in ruins, with snake on Talos statue, and snake shaped Akatosh statue.

 

[lRookiel]

This is a tough one.

I've played the Legacy of Kain games, I adore them all.

However I also love the undead in soooo many other games >.<

 

[SajuukKhar]

It's unfair to expect people to be walking encyclopedias in a universe that only the most obsessed lore nerds can penetrate. Therefore you can't say it's their fault for not knowing obscure facts. This might come as a surprise, but some people have better things to do than waste their time researching obscure myths because the game has this obsession with hiding important details inside unimportant material. TES isn't such an amazing setting. Get over it.

And I meant hints that someone other than a conspiracy theorist would be able to figure out.

You dont even have to be that obsessed with the lore to figure it out.

Furthermore I dont expect them to be walking encyclopedias, I except a game to be designed to where the TRUE meaning of your characters actions can only be understood by actually knowing about the world.

The game should still have a story that is understandable by outsiders, such as Skyrim's "dragons are evil and trying to kill everything so stop them" plot is, but the TRUE meaning behind those actions is something that only people who take the time to read up on everything should be able to understand.

Similarly you should still learn that "The Reapers are killing everyone because of X" in Mass Effect, but there should be a deeper meaning or purpose behind that reason that only people who explored every inch of the past games should be able to figure out.

Also how is making 4 items in the shape of snakes and thinking people will get that a snake = a snake = a snake = a snake make it so only conspiracy theorists can figure it out?

 

[Muspelheim]

Power to the Forsaken!

http://www.wowpedia.org/images/7/7b/Sister_Rot_TCG.jpg

It's almost post-apocalyptic in a way. They regained their free will, only to find themselves in the ruins of their old kingdom, with nothing but other, less behaved undead and angry living wanting to kill them for neighbours.
A few years later, they've conquered the whole place, built a great empire and are going for you next!



As for the books in Skyrim... To each their own, I suppose. I've always liked that feature, even if I do agree, it tends to become a bit of a crutch for the lore, which I also agree is rather flippin' unpenetrable. Trust me, I read every single book I find, and I still have barely a clue how thinks are ment to work.

 

[SajuukKhar]

While the Reaper's motivations may be crap, I still think they made cool undead/techno hybrids.

As for the books in Skyrim... To each their own, I suppose. I've always liked that feature, even if I do agree, it tends to become a bit of a crutch for the lore, which I also agree is rather flippin' unpenetrable. Trust me, I read every single book I find, and I still have barely a clue how thinks are ment to work.

The Elder Scrolls is like LOST, or The Sopranos, you have to watch every episode, or in the Elder Scrolls case read every book, to understand what is going on.

I have always believed TV shows and Games should be like that.

To many have fallen under what I call "Simpsons syndrome", though The Simpsons was far from the first show to do it, it is the best example, were every episode or "game" becomes a relatively unrelated event that lack real character development, in relation to the past games or episodes, because they have to essentially reset the world each episode or game so that people don't get confused, and what makes it even worse is that they lack any sort of "meta" story to keep it interesting.

 

[Lt._nefarious]

Does Jack from Bioshock count? He gets killed over and over but never dies cause of his powers so he is kinda undead.

What about Alcatraz from Crysis 2? He's just a sack of giblets by the end of the game sooo..?

 

[Emiscary]

Pops for Legacy of Kain. It's a nice different feel to vampires. Not the bog standard Hollywood type.

As for me, I'll go with the World of Darkness. Each of them has a very interesting spin on things. And that's aside from, well, being the bog standard vampires. It gets bonus points for covering a very significant portion of vampire stereotypes out there in organic and consistent fashion (most of the time, at least). And aside from vampires, there are all the other undeath related creatures - ghosts, zombies, and mummies (somewhat vaguely related, though).

It's definitely a well realized setting. Although I'm much more familiar with The New World of Darkness than its predecessor.

I did greatly enjoy their spin on Frankenstein's monster (Promethean: The Created).

I was being generic there - both are nice. In fact, I'd go for the nWoD for a better depiction of undeath. For the small benefit of things being consistent and all that. And Promethean (if you want to call them undead ) are a bit weird. I mean, the idea behind them is good, the premise is interesting, their take on the matter is a breath of fresh air. And yet somehow they fail to amaze me.

They're definitely different. If I had to guess as to why its not as popular as its sibling settings I'd say it's because Promethean seems to be first and foremost about isolation. Which is kind of counter intuitive for a GM running a social game >.>

 

[Wayneguard]

Disciples 2 has the best undead (and non-undead) artwork of any game. Especially the death dragons...

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

I disagree with how the stories should be present part, but thats something that we could never agree on.

As for the snake thing, everything being symbolic of other things like it is one of the biggest core aspects of the series.

Everything is a symbol, everything is a metaphor, things that are symbols and metaphors become the same thing. It has been that way since Daggerfall. Its basically the most core aspect of the world design, and the devs have stated the importance of symbolism in many interviews.

Also you couldn't see yourself making the connection between the snake on the pillars, the snake at Talos's feet with a sword being shoved in its mouth, and the snake with a sword being shoved in its mouth that is Akatosh's shrine?

Could you make the connection between a carving with a dragon claw being put into a door with three holes in it and the purpose of the dragon claw and a door with three holes in it in front of you?

 

[DoPo]

That's mine, hands down.

What is that? I've seen the picture before but don't know what it is.

That is Raziel. He's from the Legacy of Kain series, the Soul Reaver games and Defiance. And he's an ex-vampire. One of the highest ranking ones at that. He had an accident. Let's say his superior was displeased with him, so he ordered Raziel's bretheren to throw him into a lake. Vampires in Nosgoth don't like water, more specifically it burns them like acid. Also, they don't really die unless their body suffers very bad damage - burned to ash, hacked apart (or just the head lopped off), exposed to the sun (even then, they can learn to tolerate it). You get the idea. If you beat a vampire a lot, and don't finish them off, they'll just heal and be up and kicking in a few minutes again (of takes them that much time, too).

Raziel didn't really die (again) in the lake. Just sort of hovered on the brink of it and suffered immense pain for a few millennia (subjective...maybe). At some point the torment ended and he looked like that. Also, he was in the spirit world. Also, he wasn't a vampire any more but a wraith and had a new found thirst for souls rather than blood. See that glowing thing on his hand - that's a weapon that also eats your soul. He can also go to the physical world and if "killed" there he'll just shift into the spectral one. If "killed" in the spectral, nothing really happens. The closest you can get to "killing" him is to imprison him

Spoiler

into one specific sword, which would also create the strongest weapon in the world- the Soul Reaver from the games' title. As the name suggests, it destroys your soul. Well, and your body if it comes to that, I don't think you'd mind.

 

[Radox Redux]

I'm curious as to whether you mean representation in style, or in gameplay. IF we're talking gameplay, then Planescape: Torment can't go unmentioned. Though Soul Reaver probaly has the best combination of both.

As for style? I'm not sure. I like old-style Resi zombies. The shufflers.