Fellow DMs, I need your advice.
- Thread starter Elamdri
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I think it is a good encounter, it has a high AC but no too much HP.
I would advise strongly to not use the Devour Soul skill, or at least nerf it, because it seems like a very powerful 1 hit spell which can really destroy your players moral.
How many hero's do you watch from your high tower of ultimate doom?
If there are more than 3 i would advise to add 1 smaller level beasty for every extra person.
Well for being a dick i think i did kinda worse.
It was a party of 6 players of level 15, this was the "epic battle to save us all", and here is what they fought:
4 Nigtshade, Nightwalkers
Which look a bit like this
And then a level 25 undead mage, which means lvl25 LICH yay, who can use spell of the 9th level
So yeah, they got their bums kicked around but i did give them means to revive them selves (they actually used 4 of those items when there was 1 for each party member) but they did make it out some what alive, except 1 who wanted to change characters.
I would advise strongly to not use the Devour Soul skill, or at least nerf it, because it seems like a very powerful 1 hit spell which can really destroy your players moral.
How many hero's do you watch from your high tower of ultimate doom?
If there are more than 3 i would advise to add 1 smaller level beasty for every extra person.
Well for being a dick i think i did kinda worse.
It was a party of 6 players of level 15, this was the "epic battle to save us all", and here is what they fought:
4 Nigtshade, Nightwalkers
Which look a bit like this
And then a level 25 undead mage, which means lvl25 LICH yay, who can use spell of the 9th level
So yeah, they got their bums kicked around but i did give them means to revive them selves (they actually used 4 of those items when there was 1 for each party member) but they did make it out some what alive, except 1 who wanted to change characters.
I don't think so, I've never played Pathfinder because it's based on 3ed D&D which is a lousy system but I'd imagine a competent group of well equipped level 12 characters should be fine.
Oh and if you're asking rp advice this system specific could you mention that in the topic title in future?
Oh and if you're asking rp advice this system specific could you mention that in the topic title in future?
I would throw it at them but nerf it down a bit or make things so as they can use their surroundings. I once presented a red dragon to a party of level 6 because they wouldn't stop doing stupid things (like pickpocketing the head of a paladin order...) but i left them an out in which the roof of the cavern was somewhat unstable.
They ended up collapsing it on the dragon and running away. And learned not to mess with the DM in the process.
They ended up collapsing it on the dragon and running away. And learned not to mess with the DM in the process.
Thank you for the advice. I was more worried about the at will Wail of the Banshee that it has, seeing as how I'm pretty sure that there are a few party members that will have a very difficult time making that DC 24 save and 200 points of damage will probably wipe them out.
No, if anything they should be asking for a slightly harder challenge. I managed to kill one of those as a lvl 7 in a party of the same. Did they know what they were going to be fighting at the end? If so, they have no right to complain, any party that high level can grab a scroll or two and solve the problem easily. And I'm not talking damage dealing scrolls.
They should be fine if they are experienced players, but then my bossfights are almost always CR +3 v. APL. Somehow I haven't killed any of my players yet.
EDIT: Also, never apply the Giant template to a Water Elemental. Christ almighty, dat vortex DC.
EDIT: Also, never apply the Giant template to a Water Elemental. Christ almighty, dat vortex DC.
Yer as everyone has said just nerf the devour souls and you should be fine.
Wail of the Banshee may be a problem if it seems like a high chance of intawipe so I recommend just lowering the DC so it's more at a "possible" level than "likely".
If you think they might have it too easy after that try adding an environmental hazard as well.
Eg, water, deep snow or jagged rocks, limit their movement while the Demilich can fly.
If they're gonna wipe show them a way out of high risk.
Wail of the Banshee may be a problem if it seems like a high chance of intawipe so I recommend just lowering the DC so it's more at a "possible" level than "likely".
If you think they might have it too easy after that try adding an environmental hazard as well.
Eg, water, deep snow or jagged rocks, limit their movement while the Demilich can fly.
If they're gonna wipe show them a way out of high risk.
I'm not terribly concerned with them wiping, the Demilich is designed to easily allow players to flee.Shinsei-J said:
What I am concerned about is on it's 1st round it uses it's wail, which I suspect may take out about 3 of my 6 party members. Not all of them are the most hardcore of roleplayers and have never fought anything before that could potentially kill half the party in a surprise round.
More-so, I suspect that the players that WILL die are the one's who can get through the DR 20/-
I'm not a huge fan of the Devour Soul, I think it's a bit cheap. But the Wail of the Banshee and the Telekinetic storm are also vicious powers. Greater Bestow Curse is also nasty.
At a glance I was also more worried about Wail of the Banshee than Devour Soul. Save or die effects are always tricky to balance as a DM, so be careful with both of them.
Rather than just nerfing the abilities, my advice would be to offer the players an in-game opportunity to "research" their opponent and find specific ways to resist those abilities. As an example, in the 3.5 game I'm running I recently had my party of 5th level adventurers take on a 7th level Kobold sorcerer (along with an assortment of Kobold minions). The PCs decided to enlist the aid of a local half-orc ranger who had been hunting the Kobolds, and he knew that their leader was especially fond of fire-based magic. This information allowed the players to plan accordingly, and the party druid was able to shield the party with Resist Energy (Fire) before they began their assault. Those 10 points of fire resistance easily made the difference between victory and defeat for the players, and in the end the players felt satisfied that their planning paid off.
In your situation, perhaps giving them information about the Demilich's ability to snatch away souls and store them in gems could provide an interesting pre-adventure hook. Maybe you could have the PCs discover a way to protect their souls, such as making use of a modified Magic Jar spell to store their own souls inside some sacred gems blessed by a deity who opposes undeath (with an accompanying quest to retrieve them?) which would prevent their souls from being affected by the Demilich. Or perhaps a party spellcaster could discover a way to "attune" themselves to the Demilich's crystals, enabling them to retain control and spellcasting ability from within the crystal, which would then allow them to free other souls captured by the Demilich, weakening its abilities.
I guess overall my suggestions would be to come up with creative solutions for the players to overcome the enemy's abilities. Don't make them go into a fight like this "blind", as that's pretty unfair. If you're worried that DC24 is going to be impossible for some players, try to figure out something else clever they can do to avoid that attack.
I would also suggest some caution at placing a very difficult foe at the end of a lengthy dungeon, unless the players have adequate time to prepare themselves for the final battle. I'm not a big fan of the "Let's go out of the dungeon and back to town to rest and we'll pick up where we left off tomorrow!" style of adventuring, since it kills a lot of the realism and urgency for me, so I try to balance my adventures/dungeons with lots of "easy" fights before a difficult fight. That way players have their resources taxed a bit before going in, but they aren't completely out of juice when they're expected to deal with the most challenging fight.
Rather than just nerfing the abilities, my advice would be to offer the players an in-game opportunity to "research" their opponent and find specific ways to resist those abilities. As an example, in the 3.5 game I'm running I recently had my party of 5th level adventurers take on a 7th level Kobold sorcerer (along with an assortment of Kobold minions). The PCs decided to enlist the aid of a local half-orc ranger who had been hunting the Kobolds, and he knew that their leader was especially fond of fire-based magic. This information allowed the players to plan accordingly, and the party druid was able to shield the party with Resist Energy (Fire) before they began their assault. Those 10 points of fire resistance easily made the difference between victory and defeat for the players, and in the end the players felt satisfied that their planning paid off.
In your situation, perhaps giving them information about the Demilich's ability to snatch away souls and store them in gems could provide an interesting pre-adventure hook. Maybe you could have the PCs discover a way to protect their souls, such as making use of a modified Magic Jar spell to store their own souls inside some sacred gems blessed by a deity who opposes undeath (with an accompanying quest to retrieve them?) which would prevent their souls from being affected by the Demilich. Or perhaps a party spellcaster could discover a way to "attune" themselves to the Demilich's crystals, enabling them to retain control and spellcasting ability from within the crystal, which would then allow them to free other souls captured by the Demilich, weakening its abilities.
I guess overall my suggestions would be to come up with creative solutions for the players to overcome the enemy's abilities. Don't make them go into a fight like this "blind", as that's pretty unfair. If you're worried that DC24 is going to be impossible for some players, try to figure out something else clever they can do to avoid that attack.
I would also suggest some caution at placing a very difficult foe at the end of a lengthy dungeon, unless the players have adequate time to prepare themselves for the final battle. I'm not a big fan of the "Let's go out of the dungeon and back to town to rest and we'll pick up where we left off tomorrow!" style of adventuring, since it kills a lot of the realism and urgency for me, so I try to balance my adventures/dungeons with lots of "easy" fights before a difficult fight. That way players have their resources taxed a bit before going in, but they aren't completely out of juice when they're expected to deal with the most challenging fight.
In my experience, I've found smart PCs can handle threats way above the recommended encounter level. If you're working with an experienced group, they could probably handle this, but I wouldn't throw it at a group of more casual players.