Female characters in video games

[SavingPrincess]

I'm not sure it's subconsciously. We all generally like pretty things

Lol not at all!

I wouldn't say that aesthetics are the only ingredient of "selling sex". Movement, language, provocativeness, attitude are all just as major points. Its just that cover art can only really use aesthetics. I don't think for a second that people would choose one game over another based entirely on the looks of a character. But to a degree I would still say the appearance of any character is going to contribute towards your judgment.

As far as subconsciously having thoughts of sexual attraction, personally I would have to disagree. I'm fully conscious of my attraction to anyone or thing. I think based on my lack of knowledge of a game, then yes I will base my initial reaction entirely on looks alone. But again this is just me and I'm first to admit that my methods are flawed.

I guess subconsciously was the wrong word. Anthropologically... maybe?

Basically meaning, since we are drawn to innate characteristics in humans from a genetic level (same or opposite sex), are we more likely to purchase something of equal quality over something else if our instincts can identify more appeal in the thing that speaks to us in an anthropological sense? Don't get me wrong, I purchase things based on "OMGTHATSHAWT" because I like hot girls (my aforementioned Dead or Alive: Xtreme purchase/enjoyment for example), but some things might be more subtle... like why God of War's Kratos might do better in a Western environment than Devil May Cry's Dante... or how we view Lara Croft versus Alyx Vance.

I'm in way too deep on this...

(thatswhatshesaidagain)

 

[dudeman0001]

As far as non-oversexualized female game leads?

Spoiler: Kate Walker. That is all.

How about Elena Fisher?
Or Tess from Portal?
Samus Aran? (stock answer, I know)
That chick from mirros edge?
uhh...
those are the only ones I can think of right now

 

[dudeman0001]

Yet when you have a female character who acts like one of the dudes, she's hated (Wet)

Bayonetta and Jeanne are awesome examples of girls in gaming. Paine (the real cool character) from FFX-2 was awesome as well.

You think so? I thought they were all freakin' annoying. Bayonetta was okay when she wasn't saying anything and her clothes were off, though.

 

[Gingersalt]

I guess subconsciously was the wrong word. Anthropologically... maybe?

Basically meaning, since we are drawn to innate characteristics in humans from a genetic level (same or opposite sex), are we more likely to purchase something of equal quality over something else if our instincts can identify more appeal in the thing that speaks to us in an anthropological sense? Don't get me wrong, I purchase things based on "OMGTHATSHAWT" because I like hot girls (my aforementioned Dead or Alive: Xtreme purchase/enjoyment for example), but some things might be more subtle... like why God of War's Kratos might do better in a Western environment than Devil May Cry's Dante... or how we view Lara Croft versus Alyx Vance.

I'm in way too deep on this...

(thatswhatshesaidagain)

Yeh totally, like as if its a natural reaction based on your one likes and the social norms you where brought up in. But then in saying that I thought Kratos and Dante where both fit so not sure how much if applies to myself haha

 

[dudeman0001]

Indeed, female characters are generally poorly portrayed in games. However, after thinking a bit about this, I've concluded that it is actually quite difficult to create a good character in a video game, especially a female one.

The main difficulty is the whole "female" aspect. Basically, what purpose does the female part actually play? The stock character is male, probably because male actions are more easily understood in both psychology and the fact that most game developers are male.

A good character can be made and it could be female, but then some people/women are quick to point out that such a female, while thankfully not blatant fanservice, is merely a reskinned male.

If you start really delving deep into good characterization, a whole shitload of issues start coming up, such as gender roles, what actually differentiates the sexes, what degree of individuality is allowed before the character turns players away, what role should ethnicity play besides skin color, etc. That's just the beginning of course. What about homosexuals, transgenders, midgets, disabled, etc.

In short, its easier to just make curvaceous eye candy in skimpy clothes than go through the difficult task of creating an individual human from scratch.

Dude one more post and you'll go Gonzo. Make it count!

 

[Lono Shrugged]

Maybe there's just something in the Missouri water, but the girls around here are more likely to hit you than the guys are. I'm dead serious. Saying girls aren't violent is incredibly ridiculous to me.

I never said girls are not violent, shit, some girls I grew up with girls were the dirtiest fighters I've ever seen. My point is that a strong woman should not be defined by kicking ass.

 

[DocBalance]

Maybe there's just something in the Missouri water, but the girls around here are more likely to hit you than the guys are. I'm dead serious. Saying girls aren't violent is incredibly ridiculous to me.

I never said girls are not violent, shit, some girls I grew up with girls were the dirtiest fighters I've ever seen. My point is that a strong woman should not be defined by kicking ass.

Again, maybe just the Missouri Water, but most of the "strong women" in my group are considered as such because if you don't give them that credit, they will happily kick you so hard your nuts will pull a "six more weeks of winter" maneuver on you....

 

[trueluigi7]

Very interesting

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Odd that she cited a Valve game as the first case of game design without women, when that company is pretty good at making strong female characters such as Zoey and Alex, also since Valve has all but confirmed that the Pyro isn't a guy.

 

[Blueruler182]

Dana Mercer, Prototype
Miranda Keyes, Halo (Cortana was sexual and fit the role)
New Spartan chick, Halo Reach
Any race but blood elf and night elf (and Draenei, but I'm calling that a stretch), World of Warcraft
Alyx Vance, Half-Life 2 (I can safely say I didn't find anything sexual or attractive about her)
Most of the women of Assassin's Creed (Lucy is kind of, but it all stems from her being Elle, and it's just in my head, so I don't think it counts)

It has become a negative stereotype of the gaming industry, but games like those almost never make it past a quick kill-and-bored game. But people aren't smart enough to see the correlation...

 

[Vrex360]

Once again, I gotta go with Ashley from Mass Effect.

True, most of the girls of Mass Effect are very well characterised but I just found Ashley as the perfect example of a 'humanised' female character. She wasn't oversexualised, she looked like a regular human being and she had very real human flaws as well as likeable aspects to her personality. Also, over the course of the story if you pick the right options she actually changes her worldview, hence there is actual character development in there as well. True, she gets a lot of (unjustified in my opinion) hate but I still use her as a good example of female characterisation in games. Well, her and all the other girls of Mass Effect.

 

[RobJameson]

She's making TF2 models, why the hell isn't she making me a sandwhich

AMIRITE

Also Mass Effect is the most sexual game ever, it has a race of lesbian aliens who are all strippers or prostitutes for reasons not well explained, it has the most sexualized character EVER (Miranda). Putting sex scenes in was a very good marketing ploy though.

 

[imaloony]

Alright, seriously, I really hate it when people say this. It's ludicrous. The game has a female protagonist, some of the antagonists are male and thus are defeated. Just because a game has a female protagonist does NOT make it a feminist game. This is like saying that Half-Life is male-ist (whatever the hell the opposite of feminist is) because the male protagonist kills a bunch of other males and the female characters aren't as important to the story as the men.

/rant

But in half-life, you're not killing strictly females, now are you?

And more importantly, every named male character in Mirror's Edge dies. Every one of them. A few of the nameless grunts get out without getting beaten up or killed, but most of them do get beaten up or killed, and all of the named males die, almost always at the hand of a female. On the flip side of that, NONE of the female named characters die, even the bad ones. There are a few female nameless grunts, but they're not nearly beaten up as often as their male counterparts.

So yeah, basically, if you're a named male in Mirror's Edge, you're dead. If you're a nameless male, you're not better off. If you're a named female, you're totally safe.
That sounds quite feminist to me.

 

[CoverYourHead]

Alright, seriously, I really hate it when people say this. It's ludicrous. The game has a female protagonist, some of the antagonists are male and thus are defeated. Just because a game has a female protagonist does NOT make it a feminist game. This is like saying that Half-Life is male-ist (whatever the hell the opposite of feminist is) because the male protagonist kills a bunch of other males and the female characters aren't as important to the story as the men.

/rant

But in half-life, you're not killing strictly females, now are you?

And more importantly, every named male character in Mirror's Edge dies. Every one of them. A few of the nameless grunts get out without getting beaten up or killed, but most of them do get beaten up or killed, and all of the named males die, almost always at the hand of a female. On the flip side of that, NONE of the female named characters die, even the bad ones. There are a few female nameless grunts, but they're not nearly beaten up as often as their male counterparts.

So yeah, basically, if you're a named male in Mirror's Edge, you're dead. If you're a nameless male, you're not better off. If you're a named female, you're totally safe.
That sounds quite feminist to me.

Very well. How about Prince of Persia? In the Sands of Time and Warrior Within all female characters die at least once, and a few stay dead. You also fight many female mooks.

And that's really missing the point. Who cares what gender the enemies are? So a bunch of men are the enemies, that's quite typical in games these days. So what if all the men die? It's not like they're incompetent. Many are quite powerful or useful. It's just silly to read so much into it and miss the story and say "Oh! Men die and the main character is a girl! FEMINISM!".

 

[Sexbad]

I remember an old Star Trek game called Elite Force in which, for very little reason, you were given the choice to play as a male or as a female. All dialogs were the same (apart from some characters calling you Mr./Ms. Munro). What's great about the game is that she's not sexualized at all. It wouldn't be much use to sexualize a game from 2000 considering no game back then had models that detailed, but the writing is done with maturity.

You see, despite the fact that the dialog is neutral to your gender, and there are no love/sex scenes, there is still a love interest, and if you choose to be Alexandria you are a lesbian. One female character is doubtlessly trying to become fond of you but never does any stupid flirting and it takes game stereotypes you'd expect to see in games these days and kills all of them for very good dialog and character development no matter what.

 

[imaloony]

Very well. How about Prince of Persia? In the Sands of Time and Warrior Within all female characters die at least once, and a few stay dead. You also fight many female mooks.

And that's really missing the point. Who cares what gender the enemies are? So a bunch of men are the enemies, that's quite typical in games these days. So what if all the men die? It's not like they're incompetent. Many are quite powerful or useful. It's just silly to read so much into it and miss the story and say "Oh! Men die and the main character is a girl! FEMINISM!".

I was just making an observation. No need to go into a rage about it.

And it isn't "Men die and the main character is a girl". In that case, I'd be called Fable 2 feminist. ALL male characters die, and ALL female characters live, and nearly all of the male characters are killed by the female characters.

In fact, where the hell did your hear the feminist argument before? I've never heard of it in gaming in my life.

 

[CoverYourHead]

Very well. How about Prince of Persia? In the Sands of Time and Warrior Within all female characters die at least once, and a few stay dead. You also fight many female mooks.

And that's really missing the point. Who cares what gender the enemies are? So a bunch of men are the enemies, that's quite typical in games these days. So what if all the men die? It's not like they're incompetent. Many are quite powerful or useful. It's just silly to read so much into it and miss the story and say "Oh! Men die and the main character is a girl! FEMINISM!".

I was just making an observation. No need to go into a rage about it.

And it isn't "Men die and the main character is a girl". In that case, I'd be called Fable 2 feminist. ALL male characters die, and ALL female characters live, and nearly all of the male characters are killed by the female characters.

In fact, where the hell did your hear the feminist argument before? I've never heard of it in gaming in my life.

The person I had responded to first, and it was around for a while after the game came out originally. People were claiming there was a hidden feminist agenda and such nonsense.

 

[Eponet]

Just another woman trying to get attention to herself by writing about sexism in videogames. or at least that's my opinion. Also, the TF2 Characters are great don't ruin them.

I tend to agree with her. Too much cleavage, too little character.

As for the TF models - I find them quite funny... and wonder if someone will bother to record feminine quotes too

If they were actually implemented, there'd need to be lowered health or something.

All I could think when I saw the comparison was; "Smaller targets? This is going to destroy game balance"

 

[Eponet]

Alright, seriously, I really hate it when people say this. It's ludicrous. The game has a female protagonist, some of the antagonists are male and thus are defeated. Just because a game has a female protagonist does NOT make it a feminist game. This is like saying that Half-Life is male-ist (whatever the hell the opposite of feminist is) because the male protagonist kills a bunch of other males and the female characters aren't as important to the story as the men.

/rant

But in half-life, you're not killing strictly females, now are you?

And more importantly, every named male character in Mirror's Edge dies. Every one of them. A few of the nameless grunts get out without getting beaten up or killed, but most of them do get beaten up or killed, and all of the named males die, almost always at the hand of a female. On the flip side of that, NONE of the female named characters die, even the bad ones. There are a few female nameless grunts, but they're not nearly beaten up as often as their male counterparts.

So yeah, basically, if you're a named male in Mirror's Edge, you're dead. If you're a nameless male, you're not better off. If you're a named female, you're totally safe.
That sounds quite feminist to me.

Can we just call it a toss of the dice? Selection bias (I mean, just look at the individuals? No?

Alright then. Assuming that was done on purpose to make a point, and not just how things worked out, then it's not feminism. The goal of feminism is for equal treatment regardless of gender. The intentional opression or destruction of men is our ideological opposite.

Assuming once again that it wasn't just happenstance, or because those jobs actually do show a high male:female ratio, then that's not feminism, that's sexism.