It definitely brought a tear of joy to my eye to hear that there are people out there who still believe the hateful tossers on the internet can be stopped. If there is a way, I will do anything in my power to help it get done.
Feminist Kickstarter Project gets Harassed/Threatened
- Thread starter BloatedGuppy
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But this is the thing, that I and others have noticed. Her research is bad. The examples she uses in that episode? The powerpuff girls episode, if you've watched it, goes on to show that femme fatale is an example of "fake" feminism. The other female charactesr of the show band together and tell the girls off, and show that the woman on the coin (forget her name) demanded to go to prison for breaking the law, since she didnt want special treatment.Vrex360 said:
And her episode about women in refrigerators in comics, the spider-man example was taken out of context. This is the only time a superhero has failed to save "the girl", and she was a supporting character. The death was meaningful, and not crash or an exploitation.
She is on the right side, equalism, but she doesn't do her job very well. She also believes in the patriarchy.
the only reason people say that is because someone spammed 4chan with kicker-starter project. It may not be a good reason but someone took advantage of 4chan's stupidity.undeadsuitor said:
Don't you love this situation?
If you agree with her, then you are obviously in the right.
If you disagree you are obviously mysogonistic or hate her or dont get it.
Or: you are paranoid and believe all feminists are in some sort of conspiracy together.
Course, the people who believe in the patriarchy are totaly in the right...
If you say this isn't the gaming community: "Oh come on! Admit that you have a problem! ADMIT IT!"
If you agree with her, then you are obviously in the right.
If you disagree you are obviously mysogonistic or hate her or dont get it.
Or: you are paranoid and believe all feminists are in some sort of conspiracy together.
Course, the people who believe in the patriarchy are totaly in the right...
If you say this isn't the gaming community: "Oh come on! Admit that you have a problem! ADMIT IT!"
yeah that's why I can't admit the entire gaming community has a problem because it's not the entire gaming community. I don't like broad statements and most of them are faulty logic when looked at in depth by the sheer fact, there will always be some who don't subscribe to the "norm". Even if there's a small chance of something occurring, it renders a statement useless if it uses "absolutely" in any shape or form.Ledan said:
I also love being called a sexist pig for the simple fact I disagree on the premise that she is not objective in her overview at all and I disagree with many of her silly opinions on the premise that she's going out of her way to find things sexist.
Not to mention that few American developers actually create sexist video games anymore. the largest complaints are from Asian developers who don't care what they think. When lollipop chainsaw and skullgirls are your two big complaints recently out of the dozen of game releases... that only proves my point that sexism in video games has had significant progress rather than "it's everywhere".
I also have a problem with the double standard that many females have when dealing with issues like that. Saying "How does my balls in your mouth?" is a form of harassment regardless of whether or not it was said to either female or male. Of course they say it's just gender-neutral or something similar statement, but when it's said to a female, it's a form of harassment. That reeks of issues on a fundamental level and general lack of concern they have for the male point of view (as well as stereotyping men).
Of course both sides have issues. We say males are stereotyped, they say it's just male power fantasy (which to be honest... the male power fantasy is to be wanted by females to some degree whether by wealth, power, proving our worth/manhood or beauty/attraction.) In my eyes, both the male and female power fantasy is nothing more than the flip side of sexy girls/guys for the other gender.
They can have their equality once they ditch the double standards in my opinion.
that or super powers or general badass. Being an Arnold Schwarzenegger is not necessary for any of those when a typical fit body would suffice for all of those 3.DrVornoff said:
especially considering that maintaining that kind of body would require your entire lifestyle being dedicated to that single purpose for the Kratos, Gears of war, SC2, etc etc body type.
in fact i doubt most males want that kind of body.
Just like a women with enormous breasts are prejudged to be bimbos, guys with a Kratos like body are prejudged to be stupid, have anger issues, and small sex organs. So pray tell me why would i want that as part of my fantasy?
The level of anonymity given to a person is proportional to how much of a dick they're going to be.
I honestly think a lot of this backlash is due to other "feminists" who pretend they know what's best for gaming and gamers in general because they're "gurl gamers". I can't remember her name, but there's a video out there called something like "Gaming From A Girl's Perspective" that really pissed me and a lot of my friends off because it was based on lies ("70% of all gamers are women") and just attacking men ("I'm not saying men are the problem, but men are the one who makes these games"). I think people just need to calm the fuck down and talk about these issues in a calm manner.
Honestly, I wish there was a system in place that if you wanted to call yourself anything, you would have to take a test that proved you understood the basic principles behind it and promised to be moderate about it.
I honestly think a lot of this backlash is due to other "feminists" who pretend they know what's best for gaming and gamers in general because they're "gurl gamers". I can't remember her name, but there's a video out there called something like "Gaming From A Girl's Perspective" that really pissed me and a lot of my friends off because it was based on lies ("70% of all gamers are women") and just attacking men ("I'm not saying men are the problem, but men are the one who makes these games"). I think people just need to calm the fuck down and talk about these issues in a calm manner.
Honestly, I wish there was a system in place that if you wanted to call yourself anything, you would have to take a test that proved you understood the basic principles behind it and promised to be moderate about it.
How exactly are these insults not gender-based:Andrew_Waltfeld said:
- Threat of rape
- Calling her a '****'
- Telling her to stay in the kitchen
- Telling her she should shut up and make sandvich
- Accusing her of being a lesbian
- Saying women shouldn't have any opinion or any say
You disregard the fact that many of the insults slung at her were for her BEING A WOMAN. That's what makes it sexist.
Yes, both women and men are stereotyped often in games... The difference is, male stereotypes are generally positive, they're fantasies. Males are strong, focussed, decisive,... etc etc.
Females are more of then not stereotyped as being basically decoration on your screen.
No, I don't think ALL gamers are sexists. I don't even think the majority necessarily are.
I don't think all games are sexist either;
in fact I had a quick look at my games collection, and the only game I can find immediately that I played that might be sexist is Batman Arkham City - if you imagine that catwoman is basically portrayed as some kind of slut who is sexually harassed by every random evil minion she fights (like if batman fights guys, they go "Oh no it's the Bat, get him quick! when Catwoman fights them they go "Hey it's that *****, let rape her guys!"); though the basic fact that she kicks some serious ass makes it imo not sexist.
(I'm thinking 'sexist' is a big word. I just imagined a very common trope, namely the "your girlfriend/wife dies, your mission is revenge". Max Payne series; Far Cry 3; probably most action movies ever made; I bet everyone can imagine a few of these. I don't think this is really 'sexist', or at least was done with any 'sexist' intention; then again, is there any game in which the main character is female, and seeks revenge for the murder of her husband/child? It's a missed opportunity, not sexism.)
But acting like there is no problem at all, is not going to help.
The basic fact that her facebook page got defamed, that she gets death-threats, that she gets reviewbombed, that she gets harassed on twitter etc etc, the fact this very thread has 270 replies, and the one in the News Room 1137,... shows that there IS a problem.
Just going "no everything's fine, it's all in their feminist heads... Go make sandvich, ya dumb broads. *lights cigar*" isn't doing any good to anybody.
It is true however that often in games, w
Also, complaining about being generalized, and then generalizing all women as having extreme feminist views... haha dude, haha.
okay...so muscled bound thugs dont appeal to men or women....DrVornoff said:
I could understand huge muscles from a sense of realism if your character need to do something strength related. Or if your character is say...a barbarian. although realism is kinda out of fashion right now.
although Kratos is probably a bad example as he kinda creeps people the #$%^ out. I wouldnt blame women for not wanting to have sex with him, the guy is always angry.
There's plenty of women who find muscular, manly men attractive. Indeed, the majority of females do prefer fit alpha males so a scant few protesting otherwise makes their point pretty moot.
That's a different issue to the one at hand though, calling 4chan and YouTube commentators the gaming community is disingenuous at best. They're just as much the movie or tv community. We should really let this w.hole episode and it's well paid superstar fade away into obscurity
That's a different issue to the one at hand though, calling 4chan and YouTube commentators the gaming community is disingenuous at best. They're just as much the movie or tv community. We should really let this w.hole episode and it's well paid superstar fade away into obscurity
that still doesnt make it the "gaming community."DrVornoff said:
At best its "a community in which there may be a few gamers"
and by that logic EVERY community is a gaming community.
Also, im having a hard time swallowing the "size doesnt matter." each one of your examples, body type and resource management, has a logic behind it. but so does the "size matters" part.
I am also not buying the muscled guy as part of the male fantasy. back in the old days, sure. if you wanted power you needed that kind of body, you cant have one without the other.
but nowadays? when people like Dante from DMC are pulling off moves or any other fit guy in any video game? huge muscles and bad ass powers and moves no longer have any real connectivity with one another, which just leaves the negative stereotypes involved with huge muscles.
TheBelgianGuy said:
(Note - I moved this last sentence up here since it applies to this paragraph more than anything else and I don't want it seemed like I'm ignoring parts of your post)TheBelgianGuy said:
I have no qualms with calling that sexist. I call it sexist when most females assume that I'm fine with "how does my balls feel in my face?" comment from another male gamer and don't count it a form of harassment. Also You know what, yes, I fully admit that I committed an cardinal rule of fail and generalized when I should have used the word most. I thank you for calling out on me. It's actually a good thing you did, I didn't realize I had done that despite trying to be objective on this subject.
There are quite a few positive roles for females in games. I'm sorry but the big tits thing is not something that is as common as you think nowadays. With the exception of Asian developers - Most chicks in video games have normal sized boobs.
Perhaps it's just my point of view, but I don't see females being decoration for your screen anymore. There is the obviously few that make women decoration but one can not reasonably argue that the majority of games are still sexist that way.
Yes well that's my problem with this Vlogger and many that agree with her, she/group appears to think the entire gaming community is like that. The journalists didn't help matters and to be honest, they made matters even worse in my opinion.
I completely agree. However doing a female lead like that for the sake of.... avoiding supposed sexism? that's not right. No one has the right to deny entire story-plots and tropes (other than the super sexy female) because they find it offensive. Otherwise, I and many other guys would have had twilight banned for the sake of ruining of vampire lore not even including the oblivious eye candy that is involved.
The reason why I find the male/female power fantasy to be the opposite coin of sexualization for the opposite gender is because they both want other gender wants in the other in a general sense. nobody wants a cry baby female who gets kidnapped every-time you turned around your back and doesn't know how to knee to the balls. Many guys DON'T find that attractive, they want strong independent females (usually) who have like interests for them etc. Many male/female power fantasies often evolve around a sense of power. A muscle man is the most common, but I can be a stick finger akimboing two 9mm's. So long as I'm doing head shots and/or taking down legions of bad guys in order to accomplish my mission, it's a power fantasy. A muscle man is just purest and most easiest way (As well as oldest form).
Many men want to feel empowered because they feel they lack certain quality traits. And to basically not going into a longer post than necessary, this is basically sums into what they believe will attract the opposite sex. If I ask what females find attractive in a man, they might have - broad shoulders, big arms, muscles, athletic and stuff. Does that sound like the typical male gaming character to you? It sure does to me. Whether or not the females feel attracted to the character is an entirely different story that doesn't really matter since women have an very different tastes in men amongst themselves.
A big part of the problem is that for men, most of our attributes are going to be physical details about the girl rather than "she needs to have x or y interest." If you don't believe me, ask any guy to list out his perfect girlfriend. 90% of the time, it's going to start with a physical description. To put it frankly, men love ass and boobs and that just translates into what we used to see in video games.
It could be also be financial stability or mysterious as well. This ties into the whole role of sex for our species. A power fantasy is nothing more than a need to feel wanted by the other sex.
There is absolutely no difference between for example, Manly men in video games (take your pick) and Abercrombie & Fitch categories featuring hunky men for the ladies, or the almost naked firemen calendars. We all want to be feel wanted by the opposite sex regardless and will envision ourselves as what we think will attract them.
Especially in an society where men are on the short stick when it comes to who survives first. We have been taught since very early that females need to be protected just like children. In the end, when it comes to a extinction wide event - and who lives and who dies - It's going to be mostly men every single time. They will cram as many women as they possibly can with just enough men to make sure we don't cross our genetics too much. In the case of a fireman in a house fire, an male is screwed if it's an choice between him or a women every single time. It's taught to us thru our very core. That's why power fantasies come into play. We need to have some method or way to feel wanted by the opposite sex, even if it's superficial and fake. We're the ones who will take up arms against invaders. We're the one whose blood will be spilled to protect the other gender.
I'm sorry but someone spammed 4chan with the intent of getting attention to that kick starter knowing fully well the reaction that will happen. Its not a ideal reaction, but not including that factor is narrow minded. SOMEONE set that entire incident to play out exactly that. Whoever it is, is probably laughing their ass off. If it's not her group, someone just pulled the ultimate trolling on 4chan and Feminist frequency by getting them to wage a war basically.
edit - made some spelling corrections that I had missed.
Also just to tack onto my last statement - I don't act like it's not a problem. I just don't think it's an very LARGE problem or as widespread. I believe there has been immense progress for females characters in the past few years alone. Games are aiming towards realism nowadays and that means you can't have giant jugs or 2d female characters with one paragraph description. Does it have a ways to go? yes? Do I believe this one sided viewing of tropes for female characters is the answer? No. Males who should be her target audience isn't even the main audience. Otherwise it would be posted under IGN, or something other than an feminist Video blogger channel. She's basically preaching to the crowd that is already behind her (women) for 6 grand. Even then most men agree with her.
She's breaking very big cardinal rules for documentaries like this.
That's just one very LARGE problem and screams out-loud that this project will not have the impact anybody thinks it will.
edit again - Sorry, I realized I didn't answer you so I added a response to this person as well.
When you cut down all the extra stuff and get down to the core... life is pretty much about having children and making babies. Every power fantasy leads back to this junction as a means to achieve this. Whether it be brains or brawn or a mix of both. If you are powerful, you reproduce. Since your powerful, your very likely to have an gal by your side that your attracted to. It's one of our base instincts to mate and reproduce. It's also one of our instincts to want to feel attracted by the opposite sex.DrVornoff said:
Proving our worth so to speak to the females. Yes, I can take care of you and your children and I'm not a dumb oaf. I look good to you and thus have good desired genetic traits. I can provide you with shelter, food, water, protection and not get all of you killed. The same applies to females, they can and will survive child birth (hence why men are subconsciously attracted to tummy fat and asses). And after birth they can take care of the children (Boobs). Of course this is a very rough and dirty concept of it, plenty of research material supports this. Hence the male obsession with those parts of the female body. It's just an natural built in mechanism for males.