Feminist Kickstarter Project gets Harassed/Threatened

[Zydrate]

*Meanders back into the thread with her coffee*

Still going? Alright. I'm back!

 

[DustyDrB]

You just described Extra Credits, except they have an even larger budget. For some reason you don't see the internet whining about Extra Credits accepting money in order to increase their production values.

Holy shit, I'm going to whine about it. How much money did they spend on that MMO episode where that one guy just moaned into a camera for 30 minutes about totally inconsequential bullshit? It was like a deeply uncomfortable one man performance art show about taking yourself too seriously.

I've avoided watching that one so far out of fear of facepalm-induced wrist injury. Some dude neglected important aspects of his life in high school because he was really into something, alert the media.

It's one of those disasters that can me you blush and feel very uncomfortable when you're alone. It gave me a feeling like being caught peeing into my neighbors mailbox. Not that I've done anything like that...

 

[Ragsnstitches]

The question remains why someone who can afford 3 top of the line gaming consoles, the games for it, and on top of that a studio with 2 expensive cameras needs $60,000 to make a short series with what I assume will be rather low production costs.

Ask this the people who kept donating the 54k (well, by now somewhat around 114k) after she reached her goal of 6k. And 6k sounds rather reasonable for a series that does not get money through ad revenue and on a higher level of quality as her "Tropes vs Women" series.

Derp, for some reason I put another 0 on that number. $6,000 seems reasonable, depending on how the project turns out, but my question remains. She's not exactly poor, at least it doesn't seem like it, and unless she's planning to fly around the world interviewing people, she showcased all the equipment she needs to make this happen in the video already.

snip

I have a feeling your point when completely over my head because I can't really find one. Not one that is relevant to the post you quoted anyway.

It requires another ingredient... apathy towards the bully. That is what I'm targeting.

Again, if you worked on what makes a bully a bully you wouldn't have to be apathetic toward bullying because it wouldn't exist. And yes, it requires apathy from others, I completely agree.

The difference is in the details really. Say some kid in your class in high school was getting bullied. The teacher can tell the bully off or send him home, and you can smack the bully.

Then theres bullying on the internet. There is no teacher or authority (which is a good thing) and you can't smack the bully, because all you see of him is an account name on your screen.

But that is beside the point here - you are now comparing bullying on the internet to bullying in "real life" - two completely different beasts which HAVE to be approached differently. You couldn't meet them the same way if you wanted to.

Its a social faux-pas, because it goes against human natures inborn awareness of the self in the community (who we are and where we place ourselves in life) and how the community affects us (trends, expectations, tolerance etc). People SEE these problems, they can't help but feel something towards it (apathy is the absence of feeling/concern... and is not a natural state of being) but choose to ignore and feign apathy (they force an illusion of not caring on themselves in order to alleviate an inherent sense of responsibility about the community).

I'm not going to quote it again, but you said it makes you uncomfortable, along with other things. You do care... but because you can't think of anything you can do you choose ignorance instead.

Good old human nature, eh? Use it as an argument when it suits you, but insist one should ignore it when it doesn't. The old debating cliche.

I still don't see your point. Is it "But human nature"? Killing is also human nature. Is it "You should care even though you can't do anything"? Why? Why in Gods name should I actively let myself get depressed about things I cannot change? It achieves nothing. All it does it make people unhappy. Is it "Somewhere deep down you do care kinda"? Well, yes, I guess somewhere deep down theres a tiny part of my mind that was very mildly unsettled for 2 milliseconds when I first heard about this... But I don't see how that matters.

Apathy can be a wonderful thing. As long as you don't turn your back when you CAN do something apathy is great. (That's the thing though, the majority of people DO turn their back even then.) Otherwise you end up with two miserable people instead of one.

Are you deliberately ignoring the difference between "good" nature vs "bad" nature and also the fact that we as humans are not slaves to our own nature? I'll leave it to you to figure out the difference between apathy and compassion, and which benefits us as a whole.

Am I hypocritical for promoting compassion, an inherent human trait, but standing against violence, which is also a human trait?

Considering what you have shown here, that is you don't have to care about other peoples problems, its not hard to imagine people don't have to be violent either. We have control over our nature more then other species, the only thing worth considering is what benefits us most.

Then we decide whether we act for ourselves, or for people in general.

I choose compassion over self-preservation.

Finally,

I agree with you, we should know what makes a bully a bully. That is the crux of this problem. Whats more I would have have a higher degree of esteem for someone who is able to look past the ugliness of bullying and find the heart of the issue. But tell me, what ground have we to stand on in that regard? I don't have qualifications or experience to deal with the source of bullying. The only thing I can do is encourage people to care more about the damage caused. Something everyone can and should do in a healthy society.

I DON'T KNOW HOW TO STOP BULLIES. But I will attempt to alleviate damage caused until I or someone else figures out how to tackle it.

Oh and I'm pretty sure the answer falls in with compassion. Though it's only a hunch.

Apathy definitely isn't the answer though.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

A woman invented the circular saw? That thing is so old that I would have assumed it must have been made by a man, because it wasn't until fairly recently that women were allowed to do anything besides cook. Well, that's a slight exaggeration, but they were hardly encouraged to do anything besides cook and attempting to get into the hardware and tool industry must have been a grueling exercise.

A woman also invented the dishwasher according to one of your links. Don't know if it's true, but if it is... I want to give that woman the biggest hug of my life. Might not seem like a big deal and it's a total first-world problem, but oh my god is having a dishwasher so much better than doing dishes. So, so, so much better.

Well, it all depends on how long ago it was invented. depending on when and where, there's a pretty good chance that the nation was either in the early industrial or per-industrial era, which means that most labor took place in the home and involved some cooperation with the wife and kids. In such a case, it wouldn't be too unlikely for a woman to come up with it.

I also love dishwashers. I have never washed dishes in any significant fashion without a dishwasher.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

A woman invented the circular saw? That thing is so old that I would have assumed it must have been made by a man, because it wasn't until fairly recently that women were allowed to do anything besides cook. Well, that's a slight exaggeration, but they were hardly encouraged to do anything besides cook and attempting to get into the hardware and tool industry must have been a grueling exercise.

A woman also invented the dishwasher according to one of your links. Don't know if it's true, but if it is... I want to give that woman the biggest hug of my life. Might not seem like a big deal and it's a total first-world problem, but oh my god is having a dishwasher so much better than doing dishes. So, so, so much better.

Well, it all depends on how long ago it was invented. depending on when and where, there's a pretty good chance that the nation was either in the early industrial or per-industrial era, which means that most labor took place in the home and involved some cooperation with the wife and kids. In such a case, it wouldn't be too unlikely for a woman to come up with it.

I also love dishwashers. I have never washed dishes in any significant fashion without a dishwasher.

Don't ever try to wash dishes by hand. It's not the worst chore, but oh my god is it boring.

 

[Ryotknife]

I happen to like FPS games, and I couldn't even begin to count the number of times I've been told "you just got raped so bad", or seen "let's rape the shit out of the other team", and yet, these comments didn't ignite a six figure controversy. Is there a reason that this kind of abusive shit is acceptable there(at least to the point of not generating huge "I'm so offended" threads online), but it's a global famine level crisis when a political rhetorician is on the receiving end?

You don't see it, then. That shit ISN'T acceptable. And there's multiple topics of such harassment all over the place. Extra Credits and Moviebob have covered it.

I grit my teeth every time I hear the term used in such a casual manner. Like how "gay" became synonymous with "stupid".

I'm a gay female atheist. Internet life for me is FUN.

I was raised in a town where public stoning (biblical sense, not hippy sense) is apparently something we just ignore and move on.

What do I mean? Well a friend of mine was literally pelted with fist sized stones when going to school one day, by complete strangers, all because he had long hair, slightly overweight (and maybe because of the school we went to) and a little... "quirky". I presume this because I was there and watched it happen, as they jeered him about various things.

After a quick patch job from the closest thing we have to a medic (a staff member with cursory knowledge of Fist Aid), he was sent to class... no cops were called, no inquiry was made and no penalties were handed out to those asshats.

I was 15 at the time.

Needless to say, I've been furious towards complacency towards ANY form of bullying since. Not the bullying itself, but the lack of a social contingency to properly deal with it. I've made efforts, but too few people seem bothered enough to concern themselves on the well-being of others.

What I see here, and is possibly why I take such a strong stance towards this, is that if anything Complacency and wilful ignorance is WORSE then the bullying, as it reaffirms the messages sent by the bullies.

The abuse they suffer from is a wound... the complacency is a poisonous infection that spreads and causes more damage over time.

What I see here, on this site and on the internet as a whole, isn't the brutes, the bullies and the belligerents but the people who give them a free pass to harm others and in turn poisoning the minds of those who are affected.

Sorry about the rant, I just needed to vent. Your back and forth with lolwhat just struck a chord.

Let me guess, you don't see how hyperbole frequently trivializes the thing it was meant to highlight. As in, comparing actual physical assault that resulted in injury to the point of medical treatment being required, to words on youtube, trivializes the suffering that your friend went through, and reduces it to the level of emotionally hurtful but not physically damaging comments made by anonymous strangers(which should be disregarded as the drivel it is).

You're right, bullying sucks. I was subject to it, many people are subject to it, it is a throwback to a different time in evolutionary history which should be left to the dustbin of history. Getting beaten up is in no way, shape, or form equivalent to what is being discussed here.

The reality is, that if you choose to create and put your creations on a public stage, they are going to be ridiculed, your competence and worth as an artist and human being will be called into question, and that's just the way it is. Obviously, there is a right way to do this(professional critics) and a wrong way(the subject under discussion), but there is no way that choosing to put yourself in the line of fire is comparable to being physically assaulted for being different, unless farfetched is your middle name.

Setting a precedence in my view on this is not something I'm worried about... I FIND IT INTOLERABLE. There is no degree of measurement in which I can measure my disdain for wilful apathy. If someone is actively trying to harm someone else... and i mean HARM, and others just shrug it off and let the victim deal with it, I will flip, regardless of the extent of the harm.

Also, are you aware that there were deliberate and organised attempts at sabotaging this kickstarter? That goes well beyond the realms of criticism and dives straight into the realm of oppression and censorship.

Or how about attempts at discrediting her as a person. Not her work, but herself, irrelevant towards what she does. That isn't criticism. That's an attack.

Oh yeah, and forget the fact that most of the verbal assaults were drawn out simply because she has different type of genitalia. Again nothing to do with the artist and her work. Just biology and social ignorance.

No matter how futile their gestures may seem in regards to the project, the reaction OTHER people have towards it is inexcusable.

Do I differentiate the impact of both of these scenarios? No... because its NOT those acts I'm scrutinising. It's the IGNORANCE and COMPLACENCY that other people encourage and which seems to infest society at almost every level. That is the worst offence. I have fought people on multiple occasions over this poisonousness logic.

If you think I'm belittling my friends assault because I'm furious about the inaction by absolutely everybody with power to actually do something then you are dead wrong and completely miss actual problem at hand.

[HEADING=3]My point had nothing to do with comparing the Physical Assault or the Misogynistic Attacks against that Kickstarter. It was a personal incident which I could use to illustrate the flaws of apathetic behaviour. Of which I have no tolerance for. [/HEADING]

Censorship is standard on womens sites, thus the only opinion that gets through is clique approved, or the extreme troll that has bothered to deal with all the hoops you have to jump through to even appear on the site, everyone else cant be bothered.

Anyways the reaction has something to do with a long history of these types of attacks of male interests. Its not just a reaction to this incident alone. It comes from a history where because some feminists saw that mostly men watched pornography and they didn't have much interest in itself, it must be sexist and degrading to women by default, and its gone on to be the basis of attacks of every other male dominated interest around. The message always is you have to change this to suit my interest, even if I have none myself. Its like if men had gotten together to complain that oprah did not cater to their needs, and thus it should be pressured to change, and labeled as sexist until that time, and all the women who watched this oprah were by association sexist as well, part of a wide cultural sexism against men. The rational reaction would be to tell such a loser to eff off, but when women do it, it becomes a virtuous cause.

I'm not excusing the level of reaction, just explaining it.

Its pervasive in society now, you don't notice it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmRDUcbx9tw
as pointed out by maher a while back, "making women nod" has become the thing, even if it involves lies, bad logic and the rest, it has become the default position.

yikes, after watching that video Maher is pretty much spot on, although his slavery comparision was poorly done. you are not allowed to compare anything to slavery other than slavery. would have been better if he compared himself to a peasant who knew how to read trying to mingle with peasants who didnt.

especially his media comment. compare the how the men and women in Seinfield act compare to just about any modern day sitcom. In Seinfield the 4 main characters are all equal to one another, brutally honest, and not afraid of verbal jabbing. Modern sitcoms men are terrified of getting into a debate with a women and generally have to be forced into it, and even if the guy wins he generally looks like a jackass for doing so.

Sadly, modern day sitcoms more accurately describes today's society than a sitcom in which both sexes were equal. not to mention it is a LOT less stressful for a guy to go the "durr hurr hurr im just a guy!" route when it comes to any confrontation with a woman than trying to stand up for himself.

Hell, just look at the term "my better half" 90+% of the time describes the wife. although i notice the one poster who took the slavery comparision personally mentioned nothing about how he compared married men to indoor cats.

As for the harassment issue, people should be angry reading those comments. That said, your anger had no real tangible target. Railing against those people posting those hateful comments is about as productive as railing against ghosts. Although since some of them made death threats, you would imagine she could pursue legal action against some of them.

 

[Ryotknife]

A woman invented the circular saw? That thing is so old that I would have assumed it must have been made by a man, because it wasn't until fairly recently that women were allowed to do anything besides cook. Well, that's a slight exaggeration, but they were hardly encouraged to do anything besides cook and attempting to get into the hardware and tool industry must have been a grueling exercise.

A woman also invented the dishwasher according to one of your links. Don't know if it's true, but if it is... I want to give that woman the biggest hug of my life. Might not seem like a big deal and it's a total first-world problem, but oh my god is having a dishwasher so much better than doing dishes. So, so, so much better.

Well, it all depends on how long ago it was invented. depending on when and where, there's a pretty good chance that the nation was either in the early industrial or per-industrial era, which means that most labor took place in the home and involved some cooperation with the wife and kids. In such a case, it wouldn't be too unlikely for a woman to come up with it.

I also love dishwashers. I have never washed dishes in any significant fashion without a dishwasher.

Don't ever try to wash dishes by hand. It's not the worst chore, but oh my god is it boring.

washing big stuff like pots and pans is not too bad, but having to wash all of your silverware, cups, and whatnot? ugh

washing dishes is the only time i wished i had tiny hands. especially things like champagne flutes, my hands are twice as wide as the opening, makes cleaning it very hard....and painful.

 

[Zydrate]

... if the most you do is make a post on an internet forum, you don't have the right to claim you care oh so much.

I find that a tad unfair. What's wrong with expressing a displeasure in something? It's a DISCUSSION. If everyone withheld such posts, forums wouldn't exist

And for all you know, people are doing something off of the computer screen.

Just sayin'.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

snip

I'm just going to meet you in the middle here and say I agree with most of what you see.

It's just frustrating and strange to see the same cries of "That's terrible!" over and over again, without anyone acting on it. I applaud anyone who does, and dismiss anyone who doesn't. I'm gonna say it again - if the most you do is make a post on an internet forum, you don't have the right to claim you care oh so much.

Compassion and apathy both have their place. Theres a healthy balance between them somewhere. Personally I think it's just as foolish to ALWAYS be compassionate is it is to ALWAYS be apathetic.

Although I do have to say one more thing. This -

Oh and I'm pretty sure the answer falls in with compassion. Though it's only a hunch.

is a gross oversimplification.

Thanks for the discussion in any case.

I only hinted at compassion being an element to the answer, not actually the answer itself. I wasn't simplifying, only accentuating my stance on the importance of compassion.

But we reached a middle ground, that I can agree. A remarkable result given the usual trend of endless ranting that the internet is famous for.

Good chat.

 

[AgedGrunt]

This shit is not ok.
This complacency is NOT ok.

I am sick of people ignoring this bullshit. I am sick of this website for allowing people to ignoring this bullshit. It is not ok to say the shit that was said to her, it is not ok to verbally abuse someone, and nobody who does this kind of crap deserves a safe haven.

TL;DR

Ignore her work. Ignore her message if you find it too complicated to work your neanderthal brains around. Someone is being verbally abused. If you are totally ok with that then go fuck yourself. If you are ok with how the internet is these days, go fuck yourself. If you cannot accept that no matter how much you disagree with someone this kind of crap is just not ok, Go fuck yourself.

com·pla·cen·cy [kuhm-pley-suhn-see]
1. a feeling of quiet pleasure or security, often while unaware of some potential danger, defect, or the like; self-satisfaction or smug satisfaction with an existing situation, condition, etc.

This is not the same thing as ignoring, nor does it accurately describe why the community doesn't assemble and shout down sexism and misogyny in video games sight unseen.

If I can maneuver past your absurdity, a nonsense argument that seems to demand white knights for women everywhere (why didn't men start this research project, anyway? Gosh, we're such horrible people that we've been enjoying one cock-teasing title after another to realize the error of our ways! Have mercy, we men just can't think past our own noses.) The reason there is a massive backlash against this Kickstart is not because it goes unchallenged, it has a lot more to do with Internet culture and anonymity.

That's the reason this backlash is on Youtube, social networking, websites and mail. These people are virtual "tough-guys". Should the messages be ignored? Absolutely not, but then, where is the outcry? Do you want to take a stab at it? Don't bother, many (like that RPS columnist) already have, but went so far as to label the silent as "statements of acceptance". This is, in the most debasing sense of the word, offensive as shit. I choose not to go keyboard activist on everyone I disagree with on the Internet because if I did I would never make it out of one forum in a day.

We live in segregated, insulated communities on the Internet because, online, everybody gets their opinion out with no real-world consequence. The reason people are "tired" of this discussion is clear if you see the disaster it creates. We aren't ignoring the problem, we're ignoring the people who are the problem.

Simply put, we're not "tired" of this topic and it doesn't mean people like me "accept" the disgusting culture of video games. What it DOES mean is we are sick of the Internet's way of handling it like it does everything that attracts controversy, which is to run it so far into the ground that people can't even agree to agree with each other without some people (this is where you come in) beating us over the head for not being activists for the cause.

I love video games, and I wish women were fairly represented in them, but this ordering people out like if they aren't part of a solution they're part of the problem is a saggy tower of bullshit. Being a gamer doesn't mean I'm expected to speak out, raise awareness, preserve integrity or come to the defense like a good soldier by doing my part. It means I'm a gamer, that's it.

I support this woman, her goals and share concerns about the portrayal of women in all media (not strictly within gaming). But by some logic, I'm a piece of shit for not commenting on beauty culture or, I don't know, maybe the entire adult entertainment industry? I'm indeed disgusted by the sick reactions to this woman's project, but it's sad that I have a negative reaction because of OTHER arrogant men (I presume) who just can't deal with the fact that we aren't all up on our high horses, talking down to the Internet and shaming people into the discussion.

People tend to speak up when they disagree with something and less often give positive feedback because they don't find it necessary. It's what created my post, yours, a billion others on the Internet and, if we still have our thinking caps on, negative reaction started this woman on her righteous quest.

 

[Brad Calkins]

I wasn't talking to you directly because I know you won't and can't cite a single scholarly source to back up your absurdist claims. Now step aside, kid. You're done here.

How about you practice what you preach for once.

 

[lowhat]

Censorship is standard on womens sites, thus the only opinion that gets through is clique approved, or the extreme troll that has bothered to deal with all the hoops you have to jump through to even appear on the site, everyone else cant be bothered.

Anyways the reaction has something to do with a long history of these types of attacks of male interests. Its not just a reaction to this incident alone. It comes from a history where because some feminists saw that mostly men watched pornography and they didn't have much interest in itself, it must be sexist and degrading to women by default, and its gone on to be the basis of attacks of every other male dominated interest around. The message always is you have to change this to suit my interest, even if I have none myself. Its like if men had gotten together to complain that oprah did not cater to their needs, and thus it should be pressured to change, and labeled as sexist until that time, and all the women who watched this oprah were by association sexist as well, part of a wide cultural sexism against men. The rational reaction would be to tell such a loser to eff off, but when women do it, it becomes a virtuous cause.

I'm not excusing the level of reaction, just explaining it.

Its pervasive in society now, you don't notice it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmRDUcbx9tw
as pointed out by maher a while back, "making women nod" has become the thing, even if it involves lies, bad logic and the rest, it has become the default position.

What I find funny is that, you tell me it's pervasive in society, yet the only source you offer is a your word and a comedian/political controversialist who has had some hilariously awkward experiences with women. Just off the top of my head, he was in a relationship with a playboy model, who was also crazy, and sued him for something like a Billion dollars for apparently lying about wanting to get married and wanting a baby. It went to court, who if this was TV would probably have seen him lose that money, but because they aren't insane, he won.

If that didn't skew his opinion of women... wait it totally did.

He equates marriage to slavery, which sort of undermines the efforts of the entire LGBT community who have put many years and going, trying to make marriage of same sex couples legally sanctified and socially acceptable.

Oh yeah, and he isn't funny. His social commentary jokes are of the same calibre as TV dinner jokes... in that they ran out of fashion in the 1980s I have no respect for the man.

Also, you must confuse me for a feminist. I'm not a feminist and at no point did I say I was. I don't go out of my way to protect womens rights, I support it to an extent... its hard not to see the destructive and harmful movements within feminist ideals. I don't support the belittling of men and I take issue with the concept of gender neutral. Rather then accepting and embracing our differences in society some movements would rather throw up the illusion that we are the same... its a half hearted gesture that would eventually collapse on itself.

I DO however, have contempt for people who gang up on others for bigoted/spiteful reasons and, even more so, the people who are aware of it but choose apathy over taking a stance. This is why I'm here, arguing with others...

Please take your fear of change elsewhere.

So my stance is this: Show no quarter. These people can't have a cushion of complacency and indifference to fall onto. Especially not on the scale we see here... I agree it will never go away, but the least we can do is make it abundantly clear that they aren't welcome and if possible, force them back into the recesses of the various offensive chan sites and its ilk, where they can fester and circle jerk over their painfully low wit until the end of days.

I've spent enough time on 4chan and the internet in general to know that won't work. As long as they don't have to fear any real world repercussions they couldn't give less of a shit if you welcome them here and anywhere else.

Simply saying "This shit will not fly!", then making that statement again and again without actually doing anything is what pisses me off.

Congratulations, you won't welcome sexism with a warm cup of tea and a backrub. Sorry, but that's not worth much. I can respect that as your own personal demeanor but I'm still going to ridicule you for recognizing a problem, then turning your back on it so to speak, which is exactly what is going on in this thread.

This shit is what has been pissing me off for years now. It's the same deal as starving children in Africa really. Not just the internet but the first world in general sees a problem, screams "OH MA GAWD THATS TERRIBLE" and then goes along the same as before. No, sorry. If you act like that, don't even fucking try to pretend you care. Because in reality, you don't. Every fucking time this happens. Feminist kickstarter problems, Breivik, Africa, you name it. Just ***** ***** ***** without really thinking about it.

This is also why (this will probably shock you but it's my honest opinion) I have about as much respect for the people flaming that video and the people commenting here. Both think they see a problem (whether they're right or not is a different subject) and refuse to do anything else but hit their keyboard a few times.

Yet you will be argumentative towards people who do? So you don't care about the issues facing the world/internet/forum whatever, just the people talking about them?

Let me try that again... You try not to worry about things that you can't change BUT will argue the reasons for caring about things that people want to argue about?

What it actually boils down to is this; I don't care, and I don't pretend do. Like I said, most people here don't care, but they pretend to, because they think typing a paragraph is enough. I disagree. Making a post on an internet forum does not mean you care, that goes for me as well as other people too. Again, if you did care, you would do something beyond posting on The Escapist.

I do things beyond posting on the escapist. I was part of a REAL social group in school that aimed at promoting support towards victims of bullying in any shape or form, and to raise awareness of the damage apathy can cause.

I'm currently in a college club that talks to people who were bullied, offers support in dealing with any long term harm due to it (including redirection to counsellors) and who actively campaign in OTHER colleges and also do talks in any primary and secondary level schools in the county that will have us.

However, after a few graduations and some administrative cut backs in regard to facilities, we haven't been able to recuperate our dwindling numbers. So I'm a little bent out of shape about this whole topic.

BEYOND that however, even by posting my displeasure on an internet forum, I'm doing a sight more to combat this phenomenon then you or lolwhat. Not because I'm talking about it, no... but because you are actively antagonising those that do. Rather then encouraging the growth of awareness, you cut it off because you don't feel like it helps and it makes you feel bad.

Heh, that got a chuckle out of me. I'm uncomfortable with a lot of things, ranging from poverty to modern human mentality to discrimination. To answer your question, no, I am not, and I'm not comfortable with this whole situation either, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

Because giving a shit doesn't help in this case. The most you can do is leave a friendly comment. There are no charities to donate to and no voluntary work to be done.

Your posts here do fuck all.

Also you are fooling no one but yourself. You do care, but since you can't see anything you can do, you play apathetic to the whole thing... while simultaneously railing against those that want to talk about it.

Forced apathy is Bullshit and it is the problem I have with so many people, it is a social faux-pas I will never accept.

I happen to like FPS games, and I couldn't even begin to count the number of times I've been told "you just got raped so bad", or seen "let's rape the shit out of the other team", and yet, these comments didn't ignite a six figure controversy. Is there a reason that this kind of abusive shit is acceptable there(at least to the point of not generating huge "I'm so offended" threads online), but it's a global famine level crisis when a political rhetorician is on the receiving end?

You don't see it, then. That shit ISN'T acceptable. And there's multiple topics of such harassment all over the place. Extra Credits and Moviebob have covered it.

I grit my teeth every time I hear the term used in such a casual manner. Like how "gay" became synonymous with "stupid".

I'm a gay female atheist. Internet life for me is FUN.

I was raised in a town where public stoning (biblical sense, not hippy sense) is apparently something we just ignore and move on.

What do I mean? Well a friend of mine was literally pelted with fist sized stones when going to school one day, by complete strangers, all because he had long hair, slightly overweight (and maybe because of the school we went to) and a little... "quirky". I presume this because I was there and watched it happen, as they jeered him about various things.

After a quick patch job from the closest thing we have to a medic (a staff member with cursory knowledge of Fist Aid), he was sent to class... no cops were called, no inquiry was made and no penalties were handed out to those asshats.

I was 15 at the time.

Needless to say, I've been furious towards complacency towards ANY form of bullying since. Not the bullying itself, but the lack of a social contingency to properly deal with it. I've made efforts, but too few people seem bothered enough to concern themselves on the well-being of others.

What I see here, and is possibly why I take such a strong stance towards this, is that if anything Complacency and wilful ignorance is WORSE then the bullying, as it reaffirms the messages sent by the bullies.

The abuse they suffer from is a wound... the complacency is a poisonous infection that spreads and causes more damage over time.

What I see here, on this site and on the internet as a whole, isn't the brutes, the bullies and the belligerents but the people who give them a free pass to harm others and in turn poisoning the minds of those who are affected.

Sorry about the rant, I just needed to vent. Your back and forth with lolwhat just struck a chord.

Let me guess, you don't see how hyperbole frequently trivializes the thing it was meant to highlight. As in, comparing actual physical assault that resulted in injury to the point of medical treatment being required, to words on youtube, trivializes the suffering that your friend went through, and reduces it to the level of emotionally hurtful but not physically damaging comments made by anonymous strangers(which should be disregarded as the drivel it is).

You're right, bullying sucks. I was subject to it, many people are subject to it, it is a throwback to a different time in evolutionary history which should be left to the dustbin of history. Getting beaten up is in no way, shape, or form equivalent to what is being discussed here.

The reality is, that if you choose to create and put your creations on a public stage, they are going to be ridiculed, your competence and worth as an artist and human being will be called into question, and that's just the way it is. Obviously, there is a right way to do this(professional critics) and a wrong way(the subject under discussion), but there is no way that choosing to put yourself in the line of fire is comparable to being physically assaulted for being different, unless farfetched is your middle name.

Setting a precedence in my view on this is not something I'm worried about... I FIND IT INTOLERABLE. There is no degree of measurement in which I can measure my disdain for wilful apathy. If someone is actively trying to harm someone else... and i mean HARM, and others just shrug it off and let the victim deal with it, I will flip, regardless of the extent of the harm.

Also, are you aware that there were deliberate and organised attempts at sabotaging this kickstarter? That goes well beyond the realms of criticism and dives straight into the realm of oppression and censorship.

Or how about attempts at discrediting her as a person. Not her work, but herself, irrelevant towards what she does. That isn't criticism. That's an attack.

Oh yeah, and forget the fact that most of the verbal assaults were drawn out simply because she has different type of genitalia. Again nothing to do with the artist and her work. Just biology and social ignorance.

No matter how futile their gestures may seem in regards to the project, the reaction OTHER people have towards it is inexcusable.

Do I differentiate the impact of both of these scenarios? No... because its NOT those acts I'm scrutinising. It's the IGNORANCE and COMPLACENCY that other people encourage and which seems to infest society at almost every level. That is the worst offence. I have fought people on multiple occasions over this poisonousness logic.

If you think I'm belittling my friends assault because I'm furious about the inaction by absolutely everybody with power to actually do something then you are dead wrong and completely miss actual problem at hand.

[HEADING=3]My point had nothing to do with comparing the Physical Assault or the Misogynistic Attacks against that Kickstarter. It was a personal incident which I could use to illustrate the flaws of apathetic behaviour. Of which I have no tolerance for. [/HEADING]

So what exactly have you done lately to to protect those being victimized? And no, your brand of internet tough-guyism isn't doing anything productive or useful, it's crying over spilled milk. Many of the ignorant cretins who inhabit this planet aren't going to respond to anything except force, so unless you're already taking trips into the Idaho wilderness to take away the neo-Nazi survivalist's connection to the internet, you might want to consider the phrase "put up or shut up".

The reality of this situation is that it highlights one of the many double standards on the Internet. If the exact same videos had been created by someone with a penis, far fewer fucks would have been given(ht: Smash) when they were ridiculed for creating something so patently stupid(Really? Lara Croft, a character as close to the realization of feminist ideals as you could possibly get, is now a symbol of sexist oppression?)

Once again, if she doesn't want to be attacked, there are plenty of things she could be doing with her time besides making asinine videos that don't make a lick of sense. It doesn't excuse the attacks, but there are far, far greater injustices in the world for me to spend my concern on.

1st off, read the start of my response to smash on this comment.

Also, you again miss the point of my actions... its not the bullying, but the people who turn away from it because they don't see a solution. I can't accept that as it is counter-productive. The people who do nothing have accomplished nothing and, on more then one occasion, have intentionality encouraged the acts that wrong us all. Even speaking out against it, or adding your voice to the dissent is enough for me. Words spread and carry power that most people don't realise...

Which is another reasons why I can't stand what you and Smash are doing. You are fighting a voice that wants to eliminate the free reign these detestable cretins have. Even though you BOTH state or at least infer you don't like what these people do, you choose to rally with them by simply fighting us.

Once again, if she doesn't want to be attacked, there are plenty of things she could be doing with her time besides making asinine videos that don't make a lick of sense. It doesn't excuse the attacks, but there are far, far greater injustices in the world for me to spend my concern on.

... and this makes no sense. What chance have you got at abolishing poverty/war/famine/oppression if you can't even tackle the garden variety bigot. I mean, you did say to put up or shut up right? What have you done against that? Do you throw a few pennies into a plastic box? or do you go over to this broken locations and try to fix it?

I will guess the former if anything, though that might not even be true. But even I will admit that I wouldn't have to courage to go over to these places. I also don't tell be people to not bother either.

Oh and one last thing, lest you all forget;

[HEADING=1]I'M NOT A FEMINIST.[/HEADING]

SO basically, what you're saying is that you're sanctimonious and patronizing towards people for doing EXACTLY the same thing you do about theses kinds of abuses. Which is fuck all. Gotcha.

And once again, put up or shut up. If you aren't willing to develop a sense of courage and go fight the good fight, you have no grounds to belittle others for not doing anything about the many, many injustices of the world. Leave that to the people who actually sack up and put their ass on the line to help out victims.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

SO basically, what you're saying is that you're sanctimonious and patronizing towards people for doing EXACTLY the same thing you do about theses kinds of abuses. Which is fuck all. Gotcha.

And once again, put up or shut up. If you aren't willing to develop a sense of courage and go fight the good fight, you have no grounds to belittle others for not doing anything about the many, many injustices of the world. Leave that to the people who actually sack up and put their ass on the line to help out victims.

I do things beyond posting on the escapist. I was part of a REAL social group in school that aimed at promoting support towards victims of bullying in any shape or form, and to raise awareness of the damage apathy can cause.

I'm currently in a college club that talks to people who were bullied, offers support in dealing with any long term harm due to it (including redirection to counsellors) and who actively campaign in OTHER colleges and also do talks in any primary and secondary level schools in the county that will have us.

Okay, just so you know this isn't a dick measuring contest, I do what I can. I don't expect people to run out and start charities or set up councils or sail across the seas to fight injustice.

As I've stressed repeatedly over the course of this debate, is that my stance isn't against the bullies since I'm ill equipped and ill educated to tackle this topic at the heart. I am however, attempting to create a cushion, or safety net if you will, for those affected by bullying... and this is something anyone can do, there is no barrier to entry. I specifically target forced apathy. This is when people turn away from the harm done to others just because they can't see a solution and it makes them feel bad, rather then banding together to help those who suffer. Simply voicing your displeasure counts, since the more people who share the same voice there are, the more confident and potent a movement based on those ideals will be and more likely an individual or a group with the capacity to make a change will be inspired or motivated by these voices. I don't expect everyone, not even a handful, to become crusaders against injustice. I just expect support, either by words or actions... both are potent at different things.

However, what I saw here on this topic, isn't just apathy. Smashlovestitanquest (who I have reconciled with and reached a consensus) had not only entered this discussion by telling people who were simply voicing their displeasure that doing so does nothing and why bother even talking about it without a solution, but he also went on to attack the competence of the Kickstarter and the person behind it. From where I stand, that looked like he was simply giving the bullies a pass since they had anonymity and you know, this is the internet *shrugs*. But on top of that he tried to reasons that these guys might have point under all their stupid.

Just because I can't muster the courage to sail across the seas and defend populations against Warlords, or aid those who are sick and do not receive adequate aid, or to fight censorship in China, doesn't mean that I don't care. My voice is added to the cacophony of discontent and anger that these causes generate against the oppressors and the neglectors.

I won't, however, tell people to shut up just because it makes me feel sad inside.

And if you derive hypocrisy from that statement, then you are morally bankrupt. There is a massive difference between adding my voice to a cause to change the world for the better, then it is to simply tell people to shut up because there is nothing we can do.