Feminist Kickstarter Project gets Harassed/Threatened

[Moromillas]

No... No, no no no. The whole thing, is ridiculous. First of all, it's fantasy land. The women being objectified are, NOT REAL! They, DO NOT constitute REAL PEOPLE. Why the fuck would anyone give two shits. I read in an article the other day (on the escapist) about a man that was charged for drawing pictures of cartoon children in a sexual way, and that he was able to appeal until the high court said that the pictures are "not real" and dropped the charges. And everyone in the discussion thread was like "Fuck yeah! Sanity prevails!" "Of course they're not fucking real, finally some sanity." Yet video games are the exception to this? No, they, are, not! No they don't have human rights or feelings, they're not role models or accurate representations of women, they're entirely fictional. They are a pile of pixels formed by applying a texture to a 3d model in a 3d application. Jesus fucking Christ.

Yes, how dare people think, "This writing is crap!"? I mean, don't they know that you're not supposed to complain about fiction ever? It's like, the law or something.

There are actual real life problems out there that people can spend money on. Like in some countries there's still legalized stoning, in some countries there are still punishments for women that cheat on their husbands, still cases of women being forced to marry their rapist, still places where women don't have control over their own reproductive organs due to some bullshit dinosaur theocracy, still places where women are criminalized and put in danger for doing whatever they want with their own body, still places where women get scraps or just don't have paid fucking maternity fucking leave... And people want to pay money to have someone ***** about how female characters don't have enough clothing, in video games? WHAT!!? WHAT THE FUCK!!

And what do you spend your money on?

What really pisses me off is that the mouth breathers that are actually donating to this crap aren't doing this for women's rights. No, no they're not. They're doing it for purely selfish reasons, they're paying money, to make themselves feel good about something.

Wow, you've personally interviewed every single one of her contributors? That's amazing!

Instead of actually trying to make everything fair and square in the world, they pay some functional psycho

Holy shit, you're a psychiatrist too?

More and more of this shit seems to surface everywhere and I'm tired of it, I'm fucking tired of it.

Fight the power!

Could it be a coincidence that the same website/forums that spawn a new "How on earth do I get a girlfriend / I've been friend zoned again / Women are an unutterable mystery" thread every 3.6 seconds also contains an unusually prominent demographic of the "BOOGA BOOGA FEMINISM IS TERRIFYING" stripe? Perhaps that is coincidental correlation. I'll let you decide, you seem like a learned chap.

It seems crazy... but you might be onto something. My god, this could blow the lid off of everything!

You guys know she isn't sucking your dicks anytime soon, you can stop white knighting.

It says more about you than it does about the people you're addressing that that is the motivation you assume.

You're screaming "con artist" and "hatemonger" and she's the hysterical one. For making videos.

...right.

Just put him in the ignore list. He's only here to cause trouble and he's beyond any help that we can give. Let him scream and rant to an empty room.

No.... People complain about and criticize fiction all the time, like Yahtzee. But when people shoehorn in crazy conspiracy theories, racism, or human rights issues, or whatever other ism's where none exists, then that is fucking bullshit. The tropes focuses on women's right and feminisim, but for imaginary people. IMAGINARY FUCKING PEOPLE. When the fuck, did people start giving human rights to fairy tale characters and images.

Oh, cmon. You can't be serious. You're really going to pretend they have genuine empathy for things that doesn't exist. Fuck off. The only reason they reached into their pockets and gave some stranger their money is for the smug feeling of superiority it gives them, so they can pat themselves on the back, so they can say to themselves or others that they're a good person. NOT for women's rights. And really, has anyone seen her other videos. She is full of disgust and hate, uses words like "the patriarchy!" and "boys club." So yeah, that's what I'm gonna use to criticize her by. No, being a psychiatrist is not a requirement. If you were to go and key someones car, you can't turn around and go "Hey, don't judge me man. You're not a psychiatrist man." It doesn't matter if I'm a fucking psychiatrist or not, I have every right to judge you and think you're an enormous douche-bag for keying someones car. You see how that works? Being a psychiatrist or not, does not make other people immune from criticism. Nor should you keep your opinion to yourself just because you're not a psychiatrist.

What the fuck is this fight the power shit. A bunch of 4chan users troll the shit out of someone, and suddenly it's this shameful burden on the gaming community, a black stain on our records, fuck off it is. Some guy writes a sensationalist article about this "misogynist horde" and suddenly the gaming community is supposed to give two shits. The internet is full of it, you go on youtube and look at comments in every other youtube video you will see the same thing. Escapist didn't go over and troll them... I sure as fuck didn't. So yeah, I am fucking sick of the bullshit, sites like RPS with more articles on "sexism in video games" as if it's this shameful thing for the entire community, and they write shit like "Well, we just delete that hateful shit from OUR forums" and that's supposed to make them look better than escapist? If you delete shit just because you don't like it, it doesn't make you better it just makes you a douche-bag.

 

[Hawgh]

From what little I've seen of her shows she sees all feminists, no matter they be misandrists or be they quiet feminists, as being shown as bad feminists as a joke. What she fails to see is that misandrists are bad feminists, they don't want equality they want dominance. When you attack men and plan crimes to target men or demonize them it's called misandry or extreme feminism which the majority of the world understands is not true feminism.

TL;DR: For the most part people understand that feminists just want to have equal rights to men and good for them, I support those women.

They no more exist than good KKK members. Women have equality and more.

Talking about female inequality is no different than the GOP insisting America is one step away from Communism. It's a radical and hypocritical claim at odds with reality and anyone who makes it is a liar or a fool.

Angry misogynistic hyperbole is no substitute for evidence, you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States

http://www.nationalforum.com/Electronic%20Journal%20Volumes/Growe,%20Roslin%20Women%20and%20the%20Leadership%20Paradigm%20Bridging%20the%20Gender%20Gap.pdf - I'd recommend pages 2 and 5 as most relevant here.

And those only deal with economic equality. Although the wiki article is a subset of a greater article on the gender gap.

 

[aestu]

Oh, cmon. You can't be serious. You're really going to pretend they have genuine empathy for things that doesn't exist. Fuck off.

A lot of vitriol but nothing to it.

People get worked up about things that aren't real, from delusions of the malicious intent of some racial or ethnic group they don't like, to the belief that a deity wants them to do this or that, to the belief that one's nation has been persecuted or has the right to persecute others.

Sheer histrionics are not a suitable basis to decide what is or is not real.

That you try to argue that histrionics = fact betray just how weak the position - that this fearmongering is based on real injustice and not just a pathetic individual crying fire in a theater - actually is.

Fear, hate, and demogoguery are the tools of bigots. If that's all you got, that says something about you and what your position are made of.

 

[aestu]

Angry misogynistic hyperbole is no substitute for evidence, you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States

http://www.nationalforum.com/Electronic%20Journal%20Volumes/Growe,%20Roslin%20Women%20and%20the%20Leadership%20Paradigm%20Bridging%20the%20Gender%20Gap.pdf - I'd recommend pages 2 and 5 as most relevant here.

And those only deal with economic equality. Although the wiki article is a subset of a greater article on the gender gap.

Wikipedia is not a credible source. Nor is a biased book written by a political ideologue. I could just as easily quote articles from Pravda as an opinion on the American economy and I'd be just as wrong.

Talking about a supposed "wage gap" is strawman because the issue is complex and not necessarily attributable to "oppression", "persecution" or "bias".

It's a fact that female graduates of college outnumber the male - can I therefore argue that education is biased against men? Or no?

 

[aestu]

Do you have evidence that a felony has taken place here? A simple yes or no, please.

Entrapment, fraud, lying to the FBI, and falsifying evidence of a crime are all felonies.

Given that if this woman's claims were true, there would be concrete proof as such - IP addresses, for one - and that proof is not forthcoming - the evidence suggests that what this woman did, committing fraud, was indeed a felony on at least one count according to the laws of this country.

 

[Hawgh]

Angry misogynistic hyperbole is no substitute for evidence, you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States

http://www.nationalforum.com/Electronic%20Journal%20Volumes/Growe,%20Roslin%20Women%20and%20the%20Leadership%20Paradigm%20Bridging%20the%20Gender%20Gap.pdf - I'd recommend pages 2 and 5 as most relevant here.

And those only deal with economic equality. Although the wiki article is a subset of a greater article on the gender gap.

Wikipedia is not a credible source.

Just divert your eyes to the sources on that wiki page. Please, just for a moment. It is a veritable shit-ton of published articles and journals, with a sprinkling of information retrieved from US agencies and bureaus. It's a whole lot more credible than any unsupported statement, however vehemently you present it.

Nor is a biased book written by a political ideologue.

I don't get this. People aren't allowed to care about things?

I could just as easily quote articles from Pravda as an opinion on the American economy and I'd be just as wrong.

I'd point out that there might be a bit of a difference between the mouthpiece of a totalitarian state, and a heavily cited article published by an american university. But that's probably crazy talk.

Talking about a supposed "wage gap" is strawman because the issue is complex and not necessarily attributable to "oppression", "persecution" or "bias".

It's complex, which means it cannot possibly be discussed or addressed. That would just be impossible!

It's a fact that female graduates of college outnumber the male - can I therefore argue that education is biased against men? Or no?

Sure you could argue that! Then we could look into why the academic system apparently fails to incentivize men. You could make a documentary about it!

I hear Kickstarter's a good place to get funding for stuff like that.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

IF YOU CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHO IS THE BADDIE HERE YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

Neither? I don't condone trolling/spamming/hatemail/threats etc but I can't stand her either.

"Feminists" like her have stretched the meaning of "women's rights" to criticize anything they find offensive.

 

[Schadrach]

still dont see any of your proof that groin shots dont level the playing field.

http://www.dvrc-or.org/domestic/violence/resources/C61/

Yes, clearly women have it so much easier.

http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/35/1/33.1.long

Not all that one sided...

Please point to me the post where I explicitly said that men are never the victims of violence. I would love to see this and the rationale for you being so eager to show me this.

There's a wide gap between "men are never the victims" and "Large epidemiological studies have demonstrated that domestic violence is most commonly reciprocal and that when only one partner is violent there is an excess of violent women. Whitaker et al,2 in a study of 14 000 young US couples aged 18-28 years, found that 24% of relationships had some violence and half of those were reciprocally violent. In 70% of the non-reciprocally violent relationships women were the perpetrators of violence. Reciprocal violence appears to be particularly dangerous, leading to the highest rate of injury (31.4%). This may be because reciprocal violence is more likely to escalate. "

Angry misogynistic hyperbole is no substitute for evidence, you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male%E2%80%93female_income_disparity_in_the_United_States

http://www.nationalforum.com/Electronic%20Journal%20Volumes/Growe,%20Roslin%20Women%20and%20the%20Leadership%20Paradigm%20Bridging%20the%20Gender%20Gap.pdf - I'd recommend pages 2 and 5 as most relevant here.

And those only deal with economic equality. Although the wiki article is a subset of a greater article on the gender gap.

The wage gap is always interesting. That 77% number that some like to chuck around literally measures difference in pay between men and women without considering any other factors, such as what industries and positions are being worked in, what hours are being worked, the taking of extended leave, etc. Every one of those narrows the gap. The part that cannot be contributed to other known confounding variables causes the gap number to range from ~93% to ~107%, depending on methodology.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

I posited earlier that a lot of men seem to be perpetually stuck in an atavistic idolization of a past that never was. Lacking any real consistent guideline for masculinity, they've taken to antagonizing femininity in an attempt to hide their weakness. Right now, the worst insults you can level at a man are all variations on calling him gay. And if you listen to homophobes talk, it becomes clear that they associate homosexuality with femininity. Not surprisingly, a lot of these guys are also sexist or even outright misogynist. You know you're in a sorry state where you have to build up your Y chromosome by tearing women down.

I can't speak for your first sentence (I lack the cultural context), but I very much agree with the rest of your paragraph. Especially the last line, I believe if you modify it to "You know you're in a sorry state when you have to build up your X by tearing Y down", you've struck gold.

We no longer have a good analog for rites of passage either. You can't just achieve maturity at some arbitrary point in time.

Depends on what you mean by "arbitrary". By my definition of the word you achieve maturity "at some arbitrary point in time", which doesn't mean much. You're gonna have to clarify what you mean by "arbitrary" in this context.

Adulthood must be earned.

I agree, but you don't earn it just by passing a test or an age barrier. Much like maturity you must repeatedly prove again and again that you are willing to be an adult and bear the responsibilities that comes with it (defined by the society you live in, of course).

I'm not saying we should bring these back, but we need something that approximates the idea of earning your adulthood. The military and fraternities are a poor substitute.

What would that be then?

I do believe there's also a nationalist aspect to it as well. There's a backlash against multiculturalism in America, despite the fact that learning from immigrants and integrating aspects of their culture might be what we need.

Yup. This is very much true. Additionally, even if there is little to learn from their society´s good aspects, you can still learn from the bad and the mistakes and be a wiser man.

I could go on, but I think I'm going to get carpal tunnel and I still have more writing to do today.

Humor me. I am curious.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The point of the rite of passage was trial by fire. You had to prove that you could endure great fear, pain, and suffering. That you had discipline. The boy had to die so that the man could live. It was symbolically the transformation of the caterpillar into a butterfly and there was no going back.

I've heard it said elsewhere that children cannot ever truly come into their own while their parents are still alive. Do you think the death of your parents is the closest thing we have today to a true rite of passage into adulthood?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

That's a rather macabre thought. Might be a note of truth to it. I wonder if this has anything to do with why game writers are so insistent on making so many protagonists tragic orphans? If you're in a game and lose your parents, you suddenly realize there's a 50/50 chance you're going to be a protagonist.

I think the intention of it was bittersweet rather than macabre, but it's definitely not a pleasant thought.

I will say there's definitely a massive psychological shift upon the death of a parent, even if you're already an adult and long out of the house.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

According to the law, you are an adult when you turn 18. But I've seen 12-year-olds with more sense than some people in their 20's. I'm a street magician and have encountered multiple hecklers who were all drunk 20-somethings who tried to bust my balls to show off, basically trying to prove to everyone, "Look at me, I'm a man too!" It's embarrassing.

I was actually thinking along the same lines there, which is why I was a bit perplexed by your remark that "you can't just achieve maturity at some arbitrary point in time". But I am laying that to rest.

What would you like to know?

Well, first and foremost, what makes a good, mature, and adult male in your eyes? I am also curious about what informs your view of that.

Second, could you specify what you meant by this paradigm shift you mentioned earlier? Do you see that as something that is happening primarily in America only, or the entire western world?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

Partly I'm influenced by Jung and Joseph Campbell, but I also like the way that Sam Keane described it by outlining the virtues of masculinity.

For example, there's the virtue of the heartful mind. Every now and again, a man must withdraw to reflect on his life and experiences to gain new insight, wisdom and appreciation. It's necessary to continue to fulfill the other virtues.

There's the virtue of husbandry. Husbandry refers to being a guardian or caretaker. If not necessarily a father, a man feels the desire to create and nurture something. Whether it be a family, a garden, pets, or even just make something with his own hands. It gives far more satisfaction than the pursuit of power.

There's the virtue of friendship. This one I believe American men are desperately in need to get back in touch with. We're so afraid of being seen as gay, that we can't be friendly with other men anymore. Have you ever seen a man compliment another men and then hastily append, "No homo," to the end? You have no idea how much that pisses me off.

I do not share your influences, but I very much concur with these virtues you have listed and I think they are way, way under-emphatsised over here in my area too. I still remember when I was 12 and going a new school, thinking that no boys in the upper grades were actually capable of being nice at all. Fortunately, the headmasters put a giant hole in that myth on Day One.

Going on a tangent for a bit, is male friendships really such a big problem for American men? 'Cause the generic example you mentioned feels like a similar one would be having during your teenage years, but ramped up by several disturbing degrees.

I'll dig out my books and go into more detail later.

I'll be looking forward to it.

 

[zehydra]

That's very accurate. My brother is a 29 year old, normal-looking and mostly well-spoken guy (If a bit of a know-it-all), yet degrades into textspeak for humor's sake for extended periods of time. If I didn't know him, I would have thought he was some stupid teen.

Internet Fuckwad Theory in full swing here, folks.

My objection to the theory is that the internet doesn't turn people into fuckwads. The internet just shows their true faces.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

To elaborate, men keep each other at arm's length all the time. In Italy, it's not uncommon for friends to greet each other with a hug and a kiss on the cheek. If you did that in the States, you'd get the shit beaten out of you for "being gay." It's ridiculous. Giving your friend a hug is considered, "touchy-feely" instead of just being friendly.

Yeah, this is also a bit of a familiar situation at home. But only really among lower teenage boys (and possibly, but not neccesarily, homophobic males). It should be noted though that we Swedes are a fairly reserved people, so while hugs are perfectly fine, a kiss would raise an eyebrow since it is very uncommon and viewed as something exclusive to lovers. Though the reaction would likely not be violent, just one of surprise (I would also like to think that this is changing for the better, but who knows).