aba1 said:
You make a good case I still disagree but it is nice to see strong reasoning behind your disagreement.
I don't really care that you dislike the idea of using context because context dictates a great deal. If I were to kill someone the context would radically change the results.
Heterosexuality is the most natural sexuality if that wasn't true humans wouldn't be physically designed to be heterosexual. Two men would be able to get each other pregnant if that was not true. You may not like it but it doesn't make it any less true.
I also should mention that earlier in the post I was convinced that fetish was the wrong term to use and that kink is a much better word. If we look at the definition of kink being homosexual actually fit in perfectly.
I think your example with the ice cream is very interesting but it doesn't really account for the very thing this whole thread started around. If kinks or fetishes are only the sprinkles does that mean that people who need these and can't be sexual without them have no sexuality?
I would argue that kinks and fetishes are part of sexuality rather than a different entity.
It's not the use of context in an argument - it's the reliance on it. Your reply to Bara was basically 'given the right context...', which is a meaningless response - given the right context, EVERYTHING is valid and invalid. Context might dictate a lot of things, but without a specific situation then it's quite useless, i.e. killed a man in self defense (context here - defending self from an attacker) is a valid use of context; ...in self defense (context here - something in self defense) is not a valid use of context, as there isn't any real situation.
The problem here is you're assuming that Heterosexuality holds exclusive rights to being the only 'natural' sexuality because it's the most common - considering the sheer number of animals that practice homosexuality (and the fact it was rather accepted in human society as something natural before the rise of the christian church, where it faced a steady decline in people being openly gay or accepting their sexuality due to societal pressures and fear of death, culminating in the wonderful period known as the 'Victorian Era', i.e. the worst period of time for women and gays), this assumption is incorrect.
The idea of 'penis into Vagina is natural therefore heterosexual is natural' is also rather... archaic (remember the whole 'Victorian Era' I mentioned?), as it ignores the mental and emotional sections of sexuality, as well as what sexuality is (again). Sexuality isn't the ability to
have sex, it is the ability to respond to erotic acts and situations in kind - this can range from straight-up fucking to simply being aroused by erotic acts. Just having the base sexuality would make this incredibly broad, so Orientation exists to narrow the field down - as a 100% straight male I get aroused or 'sexual' by erotic acts performed by women while I experience no arousal by erotic acts performed by men; a 100% gay man would experience this in the opposite manner. A Fetish is basically everything beyond that - being attracted to women only wearing red is technically a fetish (if we really want to get technical, the terms everyone's using in this thread is 'Sexual Fetishism', which denotes a fetish specific to the act of sex), so people who have the inability to get off without those things don't have any alterations to their base orientation, they just have a fuck-ton of sexual fetishes. Back to the Ice-cream thing:
Sexuality is the Cone, Orientation is the ice-cream and fetishes are the delicious sprinkles. There's just some people out there that really fucking love their sprinkles and can't have their ice-cream cone without them, there's people out there who like their ice-cream plain and vanilla, and finally there's the people who are lactose-intolerant.
Basically - Homosexuality isn't a fetish OR a Kink; it's just a different kind of naturally occurring sexual Orientation. I'm not saying that Fetishes and kinks aren't a part of sexuality, they just aren't the base two parts a)Sexuality and b) Orientation.
