Fetish being your sexuality?

Recommended Videos

Jsbwalker

New member
Jul 17, 2011
4
0
0
Let's take a look at the use of the words 'Normal' and 'Abnormal' in a societal and psychological level to try to shut this argument of semantics down.

Abnormal is almost NEVER used as a positive thing in human society. The only thing I can think of that might make it positive is when people use it ironically by saying "Look at how abnormal and unique I am! Will you like me now because I did enough weird things to fit in with you guys?" And even then people won't use 'Abnormal' and will instead use synonyms with more positive connotations like 'unique' and 'special'.

All a person ever knows is what being themselves is like, and the factors that make up you are shared with other people. You feel degraded when somebody degrades someone of your group and elevated when your group degrades another because you are like your group. Their successes and failures affirm your traits and make you feel proud to be apart of them. Because your self worth is tied up with the status of your respective groups compared to the other groups, and deep down you feel that your group is the best one, you need a mechanism to dehumanize and in a simple way rationalize your hatred towards another group, other than it makes you feel superior and necessary. For this task you employ the use of the word 'abnormal'. They do this so that they can more easily open them up to ridicule and punishment. Describing someone as abnormal is the perfect way to dehumanize someone without going through the effort of coming up with a suitable slur to do it in a more elegant way. It's also just a benign enough term to squeak past the obligatory barrage of "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU USED *Insert exclusionary slur here* TO DESCRIBE THAT PERSON!" and get your point across.

While I must admit that the person who originally used the word to describe homosexual people probably didn't do so maliciously, And I am going into the most spiteful usage of the word here. But given the history, and popular use of the word and it's sisters as ways to dehumanize and exclude other human beings, and elevate your status, you should begin to appreciate it's profound negative power, It's not just the god fearing fundamentalist religious factions that use it either. I don't think you could say that you've never dismissed a person from your close circle of friends because they were too weird for you.

Calling a homosexual person abnormal, or unnatural is incredibly insulting in many contexts, and arguably in all contexts as it can mean that they are too different to fraternize with the likes of you, that they exist on the fringes of society and that you are better than them.

So yes, whether or not you describe a person's sexuality as normal or abnormal can have enormously negative or positive meanings. Surely you can appreciate that it doesn't feel nice to have someone tell you that you're abnormal. Normality is often used as an indication of humanity, and to take that away, to say that this person isn't like you, is one of the most powerful insults of all.
 

aba1

New member
Mar 18, 2010
3,248
0
0
You guys are all still going on about this lmao. Your all just being way to sensitive whether abnormal has negative implications is completely subjective and you really can't imply things through text because implying requires tone which text does not have this is the same reason sarcasm doesn't work. Honestly someone saw something remotely questionable and just looked for a excuse to get upset. People were just looking to make me out to be this stereotype bigot without knowing a thing about me.

I generally come here for rational conversation where people try to be impartial or unbiased but if people are going to fly off the handle the second someone questions anything remotely personal I will just lay off coming here for a while. If I wanted to talk to people who get offended over anything remotely questionable I would go to youtube.

Honestly this is sorta thinking is the reason some people still don't believe in evolution or people believed the world was flat for so long. The second you question things, people get there back up rather than just considering what the person said or even just asking about it and taking a interest in another point of view.

All I asked was to be talked to with respect and dignity and I would reciprocate. When people said they thought I was giving a negative implication I made it clear that was not the case but I guess that is not good enough.

Now once n for all I am out sorry for continuing this with this last post.
 

Signa

Noisy Lurker
Legacy
Jul 16, 2008
4,749
6
43
Country
USA
IamShmgeggy said:
Snip Too Soon?
Good, I was starting to feel a little crazy.

I must have a discussion fetish, because I feel exhausted in a satisfying way, like how I imagine the morning after a night of rampant sex would feel. In all seriousness though, discussion can be quite invigorating for me, and this was a worthy challenge.

You may or may not want to fix the quotes. The message I received was different than the one in the thread, and now it doesn't even reflect me as who you should have quoted.
 

Keltrick

New member
Jun 7, 2010
108
0
0
aba1 said:
BloatedGuppy said:
aba1 said:
It is true that by the actual definition you need a physical object for it to be a fetish but their are tons of things people call fetishes out there that are not based around physical objects. Fat, Giant, Necro, Spanking etc. What would you label these as?
I would probably use a more generalized term such as "kink".

I am aware that fetish is often colloquially abused to encompass things that do not quite fit its literal definition, but I'd hesitate to try and stretch it so far as to apply it to homosexuality. One, because I think it's a gross misuse of the word, and two because it would set off an absolute shit-storm to collate sexual identity with a sexual peccadillo like "I'm really into balloons".
I agree actually mind you that is why I said "could argue" and "essentially" I was more trying to say it is debatable not necessarily true. I generally associate the word kink and fetish but it is a good point they are different well said. I wouldn't call it a gross misuse but I do know some people will freak out at the comparison. This is what the thread is all about though kinks go beyond simple wooo I like this and they do in fact make up a large if not entire part of peoples sexuality just the same as being gay does. Even that being said being gay doesn't mean your exclusively into the same gender there are lots of bi people out there too. This is without getting into the whole kinsey scale.

Either way if you don't think of it that way that is cool but keep in mind many peoples fetishes or kinks are/can be just as big a part of their sexuality as any gay persons sexual preferences.
I'm sorry, Im just terribly confused as to why we're focusing on homosexuality? Yes, its a 'big part of their sexual preference' but that it IS a gross misuse of the word. If it's applied to orientation then anything and everything you are into is labeled as a fetish, including a straight person's attraction to the opposite sex. I have straight male friends. I think saying that he is attracted to women, isn't something I can deem a fetish. If I tried to stretch the word to encompass that, it would rip in two.

Fetishes ARE a part of who you are, and if you have one, I am fully aware it probably means the world to you. You found something and it may very well be intense enough you HAVE to have it and thus it defines a part of your sexuality. That being said, orientation is in a different boat. Unless every straight man or lesbian woman has a 'woman fetish' and straight women and gay men have a 'man fetish' then we're not using the word as you describe. If we do use this expanded definition, then fetish suddenly has lost its intended meaning as a word. We don't call every man who likes breasts a 'breast fetishist" because that would be ridiculous. Why on earth would we expand it to cover EVERY aspect of the female or male body? How can 'attracted to men' be a fetish?
 

Keltrick

New member
Jun 7, 2010
108
0
0
Signa said:
Bara_no_Hime said:
aba1 said:
It is fine if you disagree with me I mean please feel free to. However if your going to call me wrong I just ask you provide some insight. Your not exactly convincing saying essentially "your wrong so shut up". I tend to think of kinks or fetishes as the sexual attraction to anything outside the norm (aka Vanilla sex).

So please take a seat I would love to hear your opinions and thoughts please feel free to change my mind all I ask is you don't be rude or insulting.
I bolded the part where you are insulting the entire gay community.

This whole "you aren't normal" attitude is unhealthy, insulting, and homophobic. We are normal - saying we're outside the norm is not acceptable.

Being in the minority doesn't make a person abnormal.
I don't see what is worth getting butthurt over that statement. Hell, for the sake of this discussion, I'd take up his argument. I mean, if furries are considered a fetish, then how are gays different?
Because we tend to view Homosexual attraction and Heterosexual attraction as essentially the same thing. The thought behind those "I don't see the difference" ads. Its all fine and well to have a furry fetish, but it's not the same thing as a sexual orientation. Being attracted to men/women is simple, easy to define. You are attracted to men/women. Gay people are also JUST attracted to men/women. Its the same thing. The term fetish traditionally comes about when you have to do a fair bit more defining and explaining than that. Straights would have to be considered 'part of a straight fetish' for this to be applicable.

Its not being butthurt,its being let down that a community has misguided (and in ways, insensitive) views that touch on things that are deeply entwined with a person's identity. That statement implies that gay attraction is not normal, just as was stated, and that's a view that should not be supported.
 

MegaManOfNumbers

New member
Mar 3, 2010
1,326
0
0
Knee-socks and stockings.

>.>

This is what happens when you watch too much anime and play too many Japanese video games. You develop really annoying fetishes.
 

Kyr Knightbane

New member
Jan 3, 2012
427
0
0
MegaManOfNumbers said:
Knee-socks and stockings.

>.>

This is what happens when you watch too much anime and play too many Japanese video games. You develop really annoying fetishes.
So long as you don't get a fetish for tentacles and large weapons, you'll be fine
 

Daw

New member
Apr 6, 2009
19
0
0
I guess in the way people play preferred game types that have fetishes.

Some people may only want to play said game type but not all people are limited to one game type, But there are studies that show certain types of "sensation" can result in reduced or increased "sensations"

Everyone on this planet is different slightly crazy and allowed to have some weird strange or otherwise labeled like/dislike whatever you'd call it.

I don't think it makes the person who they are unless they let it, In the same way people can take a single event or hobby and let it rule who they are.
 

Daw

New member
Apr 6, 2009
19
0
0
IamShmgeggy said:
MegaManOfNumbers said:
Knee-socks and stockings.

>.>

This is what happens when you watch too much anime and play too many Japanese video games. You develop really annoying fetishes.
So long as you don't get a fetish for tentacles and large weapons, you'll be fine
I've been watching anime almost non stop since feb this year mostly echii/harem comdey etc i don't think i have any fetishes based on anime, Though because every second female anime character has a bright hair colour i am kind of disappointed.
Perhaps that needs to be the next break through in genetics pink/blue/green (etc) hair colours kgo!
 

KiloFox

New member
Aug 16, 2011
291
0
0
Signa said:
irrelevancy snip

KiloFox said:
i think you're misunderstanding what i said.

i never said it was a sexuality, nor did i mean to imply that. it's really more of a lifestyle or a hobby (depending on who you ask) and the sexual side of it is a kink/fetish. we still have normal sexualities (Gay/Striaght/Bi/Asexual/Pansexual)
as a tangent that's really still on the same vein however, some furs are a little strange that they're straight/gay/asexual when it comes to RL people, but have a different sexuality when it comes to anthros. but don't ask me to explain it.
Ok, phew. I was trying to wrap my head around that and it wasn't working very well. Since I feel our exchange has been the most on-topic, let me ask you this: how would one differentiate between a sexuality and a fetish? Calling gays people with a "man fetish" sounds really stupid, but I'm struggling to see how that doesn't actually fit my understanding of a fetish. [footnote]A fetish being something that sexually arouses you, occasionally to the point where lacking that fetish makes it difficult to be interested in normal sex[/footnote]. Calling furries a sexuality sounds stupid, but I can't see the difference between being aroused by human men or animal-people.
yeah glad i could clear that up. (and to tell the truth i've been skipping over the other quoted passages)
the difference between a sexuality and a fetish? well i think i should add "Kink" in there because it seems people use Fetish and Kink interchangeably when they really arn't the same.
Sexuality, to me, basically means the gender you're attracted to. so straight, gay, bi, pansexual, asexual, apathetic, or unknown.
Fetish is something you *NEED* to "get off" properly, or to have the best time, and most pleasing... "finish"...
a KINK is what people usually mean when they say fetish. it's something that you really like that gets you horny, but you don't exactly need it.
now, granted kinks can be fetishes if expressed strongly enough, but there is a MAJOR difference between the two in that one is necessary, and one is not.

i guess using those definitions you COULD say sexuality is a fetish for that gender, but that's not really the right way of using it.
but also using those definitions, it is possible to explain why some furs are one sexuality when it comes to RL people, and another when it comes to anthros. normal furverts like me would just have furry as a kink (in the sexual regard) while those people would have it pronounced as a fetish.
 

Ledan

New member
Apr 15, 2009
798
0
0
Bara_no_Hime said:
aba1 said:
Being a minority does in fact make a person abnormal at least in that particular regard. The majority to make up what is the norm and what is not. That being said I am sorry you feel a negative connotation towards anything that makes people abnormal. I can assure you that being abnormal is not a bad or negative thing in any way. The very things that add the majority of our value are the things that make us unique or abnormal.
Does being African American make someone abnormal?

How about Japanese-American?

How about a man? Slightly more women are born each year than men, and women live slightly longer on average, so that makes men the minority. Does that make being male abnormal?

Are people with blue eyes abnormal?

Abnormal does NOT mean "fewer" - it means "not normal". If you mean "in the minority" then say that.

For that matter, normal does not mean "most" - it means within an accepted range of expected results.

You expect a certain number of people to have blue eyes, or be born with other genetic markers like left-handed, or various races. You also expect a certain number of people - about 10%-15% - to be gay.

That makes it biologically normal. It is an expected percent of the population.

You may not be trying to be homophobic, but you are propagating homophobic ideals and I will not stand for that on this forum. Stop speaking like you live in the 1950s.
Normal does indeed mean within a certain range, it's normal for asian people to have dark hair and dark eyes. An asian person with blue eyes is "abnormal" in that population. An asian person within the range of dark hair is "normal", but if it is very light (blond) they are "abnormal".

Just because there is a biological trend in animals doesn't mean that within that population it's a "normal" trend. There is a biological trend that in bird species that migrates south, there is a certain percentage that will travel in the "wrong" direction. North, northeast, west, etc. This percentage is expected, but within that population they are "abnormal". Even though you can say "Within all birds species, 20% will fail to fly south" doesn't mean that these birds are "normal".

There is absolutely nothing wrong, immoral, unnatural, etc, about being gay. There is nothing wrong with having blue eyes, being born in a rich family, having traveled around the world by the time you are 19, or being sexually attracted to wood. However, within populations these things may be abnormal. In fact, the strongest gene pools are those with a great variation of abnormal genes, a concentration of normal genes results in a species that isn't very adaptive. So it's a good thing to be abnormal, and I think everyone is abnormal in some way.
 

Zeldias

New member
Oct 5, 2011
282
0
0
I knew a guy with a foot fetish, particularly for feet in stockings or dress socks. Gender was irrelevant.
 

Bara_no_Hime

New member
Sep 15, 2010
3,646
0
0
Ledan said:
Normal does indeed mean within a certain range, it's normal for asian people to have dark hair and dark eyes. An asian person with blue eyes is "abnormal" in that population. An asian person within the range of dark hair is "normal", but if it is very light (blond) they are "abnormal".

This percentage is expected, but within that population they are "abnormal".
Actually, I've never heard a scientist say anything of the sort.

Now, mind, most of my experience has been with Medical Doctors. But, in the case of blue eyes on a - let's say Chinese or Japanese person, a Medical Doctor would most certainly not call that person abnormal.

In medical science - ie, biological science involving humans - abnormal means bad. Abnormal refers to birth defects and things like that. A lot of people think that being gay is some sort of genetic defect, which is why several of us found the word "abnormal" offensive.

Now, if we're talking about bird biologists studying flock behavior, then perhaps you're right. I don't know any of those kinds of scientists personally. I do know someone who tests drugs on rats, though, and a rat isn't abnormal unless it's growing tumors.

Ledan said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong, immoral, unnatural, etc, about being gay. There is nothing wrong with having blue eyes, being born in a rich family, having traveled around the world by the time you are 19, or being sexually attracted to wood.
Agreed. As I said, I'm weird for many other reasons. I generally embrace weirdness. But there's a difference between someone calling me weird (cause I am) or someone calling an entire group of people (to which I happen to belong) abnormal. It makes it sound like we're defective.

And yes, if you're going on "strange genes make a population stronger" then I absolutely agree. There is evidence that gay people exist to help preserve the pack or tribe. By being different, we make the group stronger.

Anyway, I'm probably not saying this as well as it could be said. To that end, here's a really good explanation for what I'm saying:

COMaestro said:
By Merriam-Webster: Definition of ABNORMAL: deviating from the normal or average : unusual, exceptional

Synonyms: aberrant, aberrated, exceptional, anomalous, atypical, especial, exceeding, extraordinaire, extraordinary, freak, odd, peculiar, phenomenal, preternatural, rare, singular, uncommon, uncustomary, unique, unusual, unwonted

Definition of NORMAL
1: perpendicular; especially : perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
2a : according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern
3: occurring naturally
4a : of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development b : free from mental disorder : sane
5a of a solution : having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen c : not associated d : having a straight-chain structure
6of a subgroup : having the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
7: relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution
8of a matrix : having the property of commutativity under multiplication by the transpose of the matrix each of whose elements is a conjugate complex number with respect to the corresponding element of the given matrix

Looking at these definitions, TECHNICALLY aba1 is correct in labelling homosexuality as "abnormal" as it is "deviating from the normal or average." HOWEVER, viewing the synonyms "aberrant, aberrated, freak, odd," I hope he can see how a homosexual person could take offense to their orientation being called "abnormal."

Also, looking at definitions of "normal," I think we can toss out 1 and 5-7. Homosexuality occurs naturally so that matches definition 3, and for 4a I would consider homosexuals to be normal in this regard as I do not think they have a mental disorder or are lacking in intelligence or development. The only non-normal definition that would even work is 2, where they deviate from the norm of heterosexuality (norm being defined as "average" in this case).
There you go. And thanks again, COMaestro, for this wonderfully succinct summation.

Oh, and to Ledan - while I appreciate that it gets hard to keep track of threads after they get to be more than a page long, this argument kinda ended on page 2 of the thread after COMaestro's post. I'd rather not get into this again any more than I just did.