FFXII... why the hate?

[Rob Shogun]

The first time I played it I didnt much like it, I think due to the direction they went in art style and the fact that it felt like I was playing FF: Vagrant Story. Not that Im complaining about vagrant story, it just seemed that the combat system had similarities which pointed to lazyiness in Square Enix's design. Also the first time I had it I had borrowed it off a friend who didnt let me borrow it for long so I couldnt get into the story or characters properly. This time around, I'm enjoying it more, only because I'm grinding up the characters and killing bosses in two or three moves

 

[Citrus]

Critics rated the game very high because it is Final Fantasy - a big game from a big franchise, and you'll find that many reviewers are almost afraid not to give a high-profile game like that a high rating. Sometimes game reviews can be more political than genuine, unfortunately.

Except this is not true, otherwise the same critics would have rated Final Fantasy 13 highly, rather than the contraversies involving its rating.

And they'd have lauded Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles My Life as a King as the best game ever, only to be outdone by Final Fantasy Dissidia.

You need to read critical reviews past the score.

Many of the same critics did rate FF13 highly. And as far as most of the word is concerned, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: My Life as a King is far from being a high-profile release.

And there are controversies surrounding FFXIII's rating? Is an 8.9 from IGN not high enough? How 'bout this: bump it up to a 9. It's high now, right? We're talking about tenths of numbers; people are way too picky about what they consider a controversially low score. And FFXIII just re-enforces my point; most people I know and most of the people I've heard talk about it here on the internet didn't like it (many finding it worse than FF12), and yet it's been getting very high scores (for instance, 120/100).

Maybe you're just gonna have to deal with the fact that not everybody enjoyed the game as much as you.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

FF12 isn't really hated, it's just polarizing. It was a marked step away from the trends of the franchise which is bound to cause such problems. For many, it was the best final fantasy to date, for others it was a betrayal. Similar to how Deus Ex: Invisible War was probably a perfectly good game but it wasn't the game I wanted so I felt like I'd been stabbed in the back.

 

[DracoSuave]

And there are controversies surrounding FFXIII's rating? Is an 8.9 from IGN not high enough?

A controversy isn't when someone doesn't rate a game high enough by a tenth of a point, and that is not what I meant by the word.

A controversy is when two sources take contrary view points. Hence the 'contro' in controversy.

For example, yes IGN rated it 89/100 (adjusted to metacritic's scoring). However AV Club rated it 42/100, which is a failing grade. (and, the review does make some good points, so it's not a 'I hate Final Fantasy so it gets low marks' review, the reviewer does seem to wish the game was more enjoyable for himself.)

That is a controversy, re: criticism, where one source rates something highly, and another rates it low, and both have very reasonable arguments towards their rating.

FF12 isn't really hated, it's just polarizing. It was a marked step away from the trends of the franchise which is bound to cause such problems.

This. FF 12 is a polarizing game. FF 13 is also a polarizing game. It's just that the critics were not as polarized for FF 12.

 

[azukar]

Some people who liked previous FF games didn't like this one because of the combat. FFXII was, I think, a good game, but it wasn't really Final Fantasy in the same sense that titles 1-X were.

 

[Citrus]

And there are controversies surrounding FFXIII's rating? Is an 8.9 from IGN not high enough?

A controversy isn't when someone doesn't rate a game high enough by a tenth of a point, and that is not what I meant by the word.

A controversy is when two sources take contrary view points. Hence the 'contro' in controversy.

For example, yes IGN rated it 89/100 (adjusted to metacritic's scoring). However AV Club rated it 42/100, which is a failing grade. (and, the review does make some good points, so it's not a 'I hate Final Fantasy so it gets low marks' review, the reviewer does seem to wish the game was more enjoyable for himself.)

That is a controversy, re: criticism, where one source rates something highly, and another rates it low, and both have very reasonable arguments towards their rating.

No. A controversy is a public dispute regarding a matter of opinion, not "when two sources take contrary viewpoints". Contro (contrary) versy (disputation; "versus"). FF13 getting a wide range of scores is not controversy; FF13 getting a wide range of scores that a bunch of people vehemently agree or disagree with is.

And there was a controversy regarding FF13, but it was over the scores it got (yes, including that tenth of a point), because, like with FF12, a lot of people think it didn't deserve the praise that some major reviewers gave it (and likewise, some didn't approve of the lack of praise some other reviewers gave it).

I honestly don't understand what argument you're trying to make. I know what controversy is, thank you. Is that all? Then good day to you. Arguing semantics is a futile, time-wasting abyss.

 

[klakkat]

It wasn't fun. Enough said.

Also, search bar, I'm pretty sure there was another thread with this exact topic

 

[Necromancer1991]

Personally I liked XII, I just hated some of the stupid useless characters. The combat was good, the license board kept me interested and the gambits were actually useful, and before you go "while you're a FF n00b, you never played another one" to that I say I've played every final fantasy game that has been made 1-13.

 

[The_Decoy]

I loved it, played 120 hours in a week such a fun game, I liked the ability to wonder where you liked and meet monsters that would crush you if they saw you.

 

[xxnightlawxx]

Never played it couldn't tell you.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

The plot wasn't great but it had the best battle system of any final fantasy game, except for maybe Tactics.

 

[SnootyEnglishman]

The story was okay but mostly what got the ire of the fans was this guy

He was the person you played as yet he had no essential part in the main story Basch should have been the main person you controlled.

 

[mad825]

1. Feels too MMO-like; maybe .hack can get away with it, but Final Fantasy has no excuse.
2. Stupid licensing system
3. NO CLASSIC SUMMONS!

licensing system wasn't too bad, at least it meant I couldn't cheat unlike in FFVIII you could get the loin Heart on the first disk

 

[LeonLethality]

-snip-

You've no idea how much I love you for saying this. I found that XII had the similarity to VI in that it didn't revolve around just one character and that more than just Terra (or in XII's case Vaan) played a large role in the plot.

I also liked how XII took a step away from the epic adventure story and a step closer to the political unrest story, sort of like Tactics (no surprise as XII was made by the same folks who made Tactics) and it makes for a much deeper story in my opinion.

 

[Odin442]

I know I, personally just hated the battle system, and the Gambit system made me feel like the game was encouraging me to get into the habit of watching the cutscenes, moving the characters around, run into an enemy, and then go make myself a sandwich or something while the game plays itself for awhile. This had me avoiding battles like they're the plague (I can't afford to be making myself a new sandwich every five minutes), which turns every boss fight into a gimmick boss, a fight you can only win by doing exactly the right thing at exactly the right place and exactly the right time in exactly the right way. As very few of those gimmicks turned out to be my favorite stand-by strategy of "hit the bad thing with everything I've got, weather the counter, lather, rinse, repeat as necessary," it swiftly became frustrating and when I realized I'd spent three hours trying to bring down a boss with no success, I knew it was all over. I didn't want to go back and grind because the battles were boring me, and I couldn't progress without taking down that boss.

Also I didn't like Vaan. I understand it's an ensemble cast as it was with VI, but at least VI had an entirely likable ensemble.

 

[kurupt87]

It's been a while since I've played the game, but I remember that it had a good story story.

The characters didn't do it for me though; and the fact that Vaan is set up as the protagonist but then revealed as completely irrelevant was annoying. I like the guy representing me to be important or good at something in some way, not some mug along for the ride for no reason at all. It made me feel completely irrelevant to (and therefore not care about) the story, which ruined it for me, which was a shame because it was good.

The license system, while not my favourite leveling doo-dad, was ok.

The combat though, more specifically the gambit system, I HATED. I felt it was clunky as fuck and I HATE AI allies. As far as I can remember it was a copy of the combat system from FFXI, the MMO, and that I could never get into because it was too clunky.

Also, MMO quests not-so-cunningly disguised as actual sidequests was insulting and the fact that it is probably the most grind heavy FF released of the X-and-later years are both bad things in my eyes.

 

[Enigmers]

I love it, I shelled out 60 bucks for the collectors edition and it was worth every penny.

Well, the extra DVD you get with the collectors edition isn't really worth it, but the tin box is nice.

I thought the game was very fun and had great pacing.

The Lisence Grid was great because it allowed for customization. They could easily have done the "Crystarium" system, i.e. "we're going to pretend to give you options but not really," but what they did was actually give your characters room to grow into whatever you needed them to be. Can you imagine how ridiculous the game would be if every single character could equip every single item and use every single spell from the get-go? Alternatively, if the equipment you could carry was tied to your level, then you'd have an extremely linear development system which is the exact opposite of what made Final Fantasy XII fun (for me, anyway.)

 

[DracoSuave]

That is a controversy, re: criticism, where one source rates something highly, and another rates it low, and both have very reasonable arguments towards their rating.

No. A controversy is a public dispute regarding a matter of opinion, not "when two sources take contrary viewpoints".

Please explain to me how two sources having radically different opinions on the quality of a piece of work, both presenting cogent arguments to their individual cases, is not "a public dispute regarding a matter of opinion", when said cogent arguments are not merely represented by their own opinion, but echoed in the rank-and-file members of its community?

Either I'm having trouble sorting out the difference, or you've fixated on the word 'scores' rather than the meat of the argument presented.

I honestly don't understand what argument you're trying to make.

Ah, and there I have my answer.

You've fixated on the 'scores' and instead of reading anything else in the argument, you decided to form a strawman argument around it.

So I'll explain it to you.

There is a controversy because the -fan base- cannot agree as to whether the game is good, or bad. Both sides of the debate have reasonable points to their side. The critics, in the case of Final Fantasy 13, are themselves as polarized by the fan base, making the controversy not between the fan-base and the critics (despite what you have ignorantly claimed), but between factions within the fan-base. THAT is the controversy.

This is analogous to Final Fantasy 12, because it too has a polarized fan-base. This is understandable, because in many ways, it is the opposite kind of game. However, the critics rated it higher on average, because its primary flaws, while seen as such by a fan base, are not as much so from a technical standpoint.