Final Fantasy X ruined Final Fantasy (and Square)

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AcacianLeaves

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WARNING: What follows is a long rant made by a Final Fantasy fanboy. It contains spoilers and is a general waste of time for all but the most bored Final Fantasy fan. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. Also yes a lot of my opinions are similar to Spoony's. I did my best to not make redundant points, but our opinions about this game are very similar. Besides, the Meg Ryan thing is fucking uncanny.

I love Final Fantasy, first of all. To establish that I'm not just a hater, allow me to explain. Final Fantasy 6 is my favorite in the series. My second favorite is probably Final Fantasy Tactics (if you count that), and then Final Fantasy 7. I also loved 12, and would qualify it as a favorite if only it didn't have Vaan and Penelo tacked on at the last minute. Hell, I even liked Mystic Quest, and while I can't say I loved Final Fantasy 8 I did probably spend 100+ hours on it so I at least enjoyed the gameplay and exploration aspects. I didn't really love 13, but I also didn't really hate it. I felt it was bad, but bad in the ways that the series has been before. Specifically I felt 13 was very, VERY similar to Final Fantasy X.

And, for some reason, there have been several threads on The Escapist lately that have been curious about Final Fantasy. Where did it go wrong? Which was your favorite? Which was your least favorite? etc. And to my extreme surprise, many people consider Final Fantasy X to be the best in the series. Those same people consider Final Fantasy 13 to be the worst. I do not understand these people.

To me, Final Fantasy X was the beginning of the end. Not only did it start using the character tropes that plague the series (and JRPG genre) to this day, but it brought the series away from its roots in order to focus more on linearity and controlled, guided gameplay. Allow me to give you a simple, easy to follow (and easy to rebuke) list that explains the basis for my opinion, starting with what I liked:

PROS:

  • [li]Pretty cutscenes: Seriously, I'm still impressed by these. They are among the best on the PS2, easily.[/li]
    [li]Great Graphics for the PS2: Again, this is a very pretty game. The textures are generally smooth, the colors are vivid, the particle effects look great, etc.[/li]
    [li]Amazing sound design: It's not the best in the series (I'd look to 6 for that), there aren't any truly memorable tracks or effects, but it does its job and you notice the high quality throughout.[/li]
    [li]Engaging and Interesting Combat System: One of the few things I've liked consistently since FF7 has been the changing combat systems. I like that they've tried to make each game's combat feel unique and interesting. I liked the semi-automated combat of 12, I liked the super automated combat for most of 13, and I think that FFX took the old turn-based style and more or less perfected it.[/li]
    [li]Auron is awesome: Auron isn't just the coolest character in this game, he may be the coolest in the entire FF series.[/li]
    [li]Kimahri is alright, too: Yeah, fine I'll give you this one too. He's a 7 foot tall blue horned Lion-man, and I am okay with that.[/li]
    [li]Sin is kind of cool: I love this kind of villain in a game. A Cthuloid metamonster that is basically an indestructible force of nature. It's also a throwback to Lavos, which I love. Too bad FFX goes and ruins everything by giving it the dumbest explanation possible.[/li]

CONS:

  • [li]Terrible Characters: This is the biggest issue with the story and writing, and a huge reason as to why I felt this game was so bad and has harmed the series and the genre more than any other entry. The poorly written characters lifted directly from Japanese pop culture are something that plagues the series (and the JRPG genre as a whole) to this day. Basically every character in this game is based on a stupid stereotype or preexisting trope of Japanese storytelling. The three female characters could have easily been lifted from a bad dating sim. You've got the apologetic ultra submissive doormat (Yuna), the 15-year-old hyperactive Loli ditz (Rikku), and the older 'experienced' disciplinarian with udderly absurd boobs (Lulu). You get glimpses of deeper characterization in their background stories, but that all takes a back seat to making sure they conform to these hypersexualized characterizations. Hell Rikku and Lulu could be excised from the game completely and they wouldn't have had to change the story at all. They're just there as fan service to a perverse subculture. Look no further than FFX-2 if you don't believe me.

    The Male characters fare better, as I mentioned in the Pros. However, even the best of them are based on pre-existing one-dimensional characterizations. You've got the gruff old samurai with a mysterious past (Auron) and the foreign strongman out to prove himself and regain his honor (Kimahri). Those characters are interesting because those tropes are interesting, not because they're particularly well written. And then there's Tidus and Wakka. Wakka would probably be more tolerable if it weren't for his ridiculous character design, stupid name, and silly "island" accent. It still kills me that he's voiced by John DiMaggio (Bender, Marcus Fenix). Oh also, his weapon is a volleyball.

    Tidus is the worst main character in Final Fantasy history. Squall may be an angsty whining loser with a silly weapon, but at least he mans up every now and then. The only time Tidus isn't whining is when he's congratulating himself on being so awesome at fucking Blitzball. Vaan sucks but he's little more than a cheap Tidus knock-off. Tidus is an undeservedly arrogant, whining, constantly complaining androgynous teenager wearing the most absurd outfit ever in a genre known for absurd outfits. This style of character has shown up constantly since FFX, so much so that it's become a joke of the genre. Squall was a whiny teenager sure, but he wasn't designed to look like the love child of Gackt and Meg Ryan:

    As I've mentioned Vaan is basicaly a carbon copy of Tidus, meant to appeal to his apparently large Japanese fanbase. Same stupid hair, same whiny entitled attitude, same unnecessarily exposed skin. Any time you see a whiny little androgynous preteen as a main character in a JRPG, thank Tidus. Oh and Cloud doesn't count. He wasn't a whiny androgynous teenager in FF7, he didn't take on that role until Advent Children. In FF7 he was an action-oriented mercenary badass.[/li]

    [li]Terrible Dialogue and Writing: Related to the above. Take any 4 or 5 lines of dialogue from the game not spoken by Auron or Kimahri and try to defend them as well written. I will laugh at your feeble attempt. This is probably partly due to a poor translation, but that's hardly an excuse. Tactics, 6, 7, and 9 all had superior writing.[/li]

    [li]Terrible Voice Acting: Also related to the above, but less of an issue. We all know this era had some terrible voice acting, and FFX is one of the worst examples. I consider this something of a nitpick though, as having voices at all was new to the genre. Prove me wrong, show me a clip of FFX that doesn't include abysmal voice acting. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha.[/li]

    [li]An absurd, silly, and often incomprehensible plot: Explain the premise of FFX to me. It can't be done without sounding like a madman. The future dream incarnate of a past civilization who plays tackle diving water polo must escort a heroine destined to kill herself in order to defeat Cthulu towards a mystical city summoned into existence by ghost thought magic. I think part of my brain just died trying to come up with those words. And of course if we want to know what REALLY happens we have to stay til after the credits where we realize it ends on a cliffhanger where this ghost thought summoned dream incarnate must be rescued from the water temple. The bad plot may have been easier to follow if only the writing and translation were better, but that's just not the case. When I first played through FFX, most of my time was spent with a strained "WTF" look on my face. Even once its explained and you understand the plot, you have to realize that this story is just downright absurd.[/li]
    [li]Ridiculous Character Design: Uneven pleather lederhosen? Exterior G-strings? Exposed midriffs and cleavage on both sexes? Hair that defies the laws of physics? It looks like most of the characters were attacked by J-Pop and gay fetish shops. How am I supposed to take a game seriously when the main villain looks like this:[/li]

    [sub]Never google image search any of the male characters in FFX. Trust me.[/sub]​

    [li]Lack of Exploration: This is the first game in the Final Fantasy series that did not include an explorable overworld map. And here we get into how FFX harmed the series' gameplay. One of my favorite parts of any given RPG is the freedom to explore. Doing this allows you to unlock new areas, new monsters, new spells, and new characters. How many secret characters are in FFX? Zero. How do you find hidden locations? By either knowing the codeword or searching for the coordinates. No exploration at all. And this is how Final Fantasy started to include asinine ways to unlock new spells. Instead of breeding chocobos or finding a hidden dungeon, you have to know what secret criteria unlock the proper location or item. In FFX if you want to fight Nemesis (the optional superboss), you have to fight ever monster in every area of the game, capture 10 of every monster, and a few other basically random grinding achievements. There is still minimal exploration in the actual gameworld maps, but there is little reason to do so.[/li]

    [li]Linearity: This is related to the above, and was one of the main complaints about FF13 and made me ask if those complaining about FF13 remember how linear FFX actually was. You have less roads and so the maps are less hallway-like, but its just as linear. The game leads you around on a very short leash from start to finish. The areas are basically just very large hallways, with little or no choice of where you can go and (as I mentioned) zero exploration. JRPGs aren't exactly known for their choices, but that's not what I'm talking about here. I don't need alternate endings in my JRPG, but I do want to be able to influence how I play the game. I want to be able to get sidetracked, to explore, to find new and interesting things, and to maybe have options about how I go about completing the linear story.[/li]
    [li]Blitzball: FF7 had snowboarding, motorcycle racing, a submarine game, and random carnival minigames. FF8 had the Triple Triad card game, which I actually liked. FF9 had Triple Triad as well, but removed any conceivable reason to play it. FFX had fucking Blitzball. I could forgive the fact that the game is physically impossible. I could forgive that rather than being an optional minigame, it is a plot essential device that drives most of the character's motivations. What I cannot forgive is that the game is a tedious, boring, and ultimately pointless waste of time. It's like the designers have never played a sports game, never designed a minigame, and have an aversion to fun.[/li]

So there is my overly verbose analysis of why I hated and still hate FFX. I didn't write this to incite a flamewar, otherwise I wouldn't have typed this whole thing out. I'm interested in why people felt that the pros outweighed the cons. If you think FFX was one of the best in the series, do you not care about story, characters, or writing? Were you not that interested in exploration or non-linearity in other JRPG titles? Did you just ignore the whole Blitzball thing? Did you enjoy all of the things I hated? Or do you simply feel that pretty graphics and a good combat system are worth sitting through bad writing, painful voice acting, boring non-combat gameplay, and unforgivably annoying characters? Because the Cons of FFX are the same things people complained about in FF13. amd they're the same things that people cite as reasons that JRPGs aren't as good any more.
 

Souplex

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I disagree. It all went down the tubes with 7.
 

Cantehman

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Ugh, not this again. I'll be honest and say I kind of stopped reading a bit into the cons (calling Yuna an apologetic ultra submissive doormat might be debatable at the start of the game, it's just plain wrong by the end of the game), so I'll just say this:

Every Final Fantasy is different, everyone thinks a certain FF caused the series to go bad, we get it. Now stop. making. these. threads.
 

hermes

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Souplex said:
I disagree. It all went down the tubes with 7.
Agreed, but most of us didn't notice until they tried to remake it like 4 times...
 

Tallim

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I have to disagree as well. Mainly because I don't believe FF ever has gone downhill. I don't like FFXIII to be fair but not because it is a decline in the series quality but rather a change in direction that happens in most FF games in one way or another.

Overworld exploration is highly overrated in most JRPGs simply because there are very few places to actually go. This leads to the worldmap being at a basic level just one big random encounter zone. Or a corridor so wide you can't see the edges.

I do however agree that 6 was the best one.
 

Veldt Falsetto

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SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Realise that just because it's called Final Fantasy doesn't mean it has to be exactly the same as the one before it.

Seriously, if they changed the name we wouldn't have any of this bullshit and you absolute idiots who call yourself fans wouldn't feel the need to spout this kind of crap.

This annoys me to no end.
 

AcacianLeaves

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Souplex said:
I disagree. It all went down the tubes with 7.
I felt this way for a while. Not because I disliked 7, but because I think Square got the wrong ideas about why 7 was popular. It's 7 that they started pouring millions into pre-rendered cutscenes, and its 7 that the main characters started their odd transition from paramilitary soldiers to a rag-tag group of teenagers. I'm not sure if that's what you're referencing, though.

Cantehman said:
calling Yuna an apologetic ultra submissive doormat might be debatable at the start of the game, it's just plain wrong by the end of the game
Maybe that could be said for FFX-2, but not FFX. Yuna just does whatever she's told to. It doesn't occur to her to attempt to find a way to defeat Sin without self sacrifice until Tidus suggests it. She constantly apologizes for being kidnapped, or for burdening her protectors with the duty of protecting her. It doesn't occur to her to defeat defeat Lady Yunalesca rather than summon the Final Aeon until her team recommends it. The only moment in the entire game that she seems to have any strength is at the very final scene when she agrees to lead the reconstruction efforts.
 

vazzaroth

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10 was actually my favorite, with 8 right behind it and X-2 right after that. I hated 12, but a good deal of that might have been the weird korean-style art putting me off and never giving it a chance.

I actually liked the lack of open world exploring. I always hated it in the other games... So much time wasted and so, so, SO many stupid random encounters. At least it always had good music.
 

jumjalalabash

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This thread is seriously nothing but someone who saw The Spoony Experiment review of FF10 and decided to put it into essay format. Kinda totally pointless.
 

lapan

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10 was actually the last Final Fantasy which i liked and Blitzball one of my favorite minigames. I agree that Tidus was a badly written character though.
 

Onyx Oblivion

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Garak73 said:
Who has both Madden and Final Fantasy X on the same shelf?
*raises hand*

To be fair, I got Madden for free and never played it.

Once the new one comes out, people basically get rid of the old Madden immediately.
 

Archangel768

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I haven't played many Final Fantasies.
The only ones I have played are, Crisis Core, VII, VIII, X and XIII (About 80% through X-2 and 36 hours through XII) I'm getting through them bit by bit but I'll share my opinions of your "cons" with my knowledge. NOTE: Probably biased since it was my first real experience with Final Fantasy. Then again, that other forum topic somewhat proves that wrong.

half of your cons are in MY opinion wrong.
1. I loved the characters

2. Perhaps the dialogue wasn't as good. But I don't believe VII had any better. (Of course we all know VII had a poor translation which may have caused this) Overall though, I actually enjoyed the dialogue in both even thought it can be considered they have "flaws"

3. When thinking about it, I guess the voice action isn't that great overall, however, I still enjoy it despite its "flaws". There were also a lot of restrictions when doing the voice acting (trying to match the lines with the lip movement and digitally altering how long their lines were to match it as well because they didn't lip sync it with the english)

4. I love the story and thought it was amazing.

5. Because the way the story was written, You being Tidus and discovering more about the world makes it so that the linearity of the level design not so bad, even though it might just be a narrow path, the story and the fact you know nothing of the world, makes you wonder what's around the bend, what am I going to find out next and so on. For me, this is linearity done properly. XIII's design was boring because it didn't have "interesting" locations, the story was so shallow that I didn't really feel anything when there were "twists" in the plot. Also the lack of any minigames, that old man telling you the history of the world, reoccurring characters you get to see along the way, the summoner lady, the chocobo knights, crusaders, finding al bhed primers, spheres that show Braskas' pilgrimage. There was a lot to see along the way when you think about it. You pressed a button to interact with people which made things seem more personal and engaging rather then seeing people rant to themselves, the people in X also gave you items sometimes. Differences in gameplay e.g. The temple puzzles and swimming made things more interesting. Also since the camera is fixed, you kind of have to walk around the place to see everything (e.g. Al Bhed primers were in places you couldn't actually see at all. Final Fantasy XIII had a camera you controlled so you could see everything where you stood, meaning that there was less "exploration") That may seem kind of small, and look like i'm scrapping the bottom of the barrel with that last point, but, for me even thought it's a "small" thing, it actually makes a ton of difference.

6. No problems with the character design personally, however I guess I see your point, it just doesn't come across that way with me.

7. I didn't really like blitzball either, but, that's not a good enough reason on its own to say the game sucked.
 

Kinokohatake

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I used to hate 10. Then 13 came around and made me realize that 10 was only meh, not awful. 10 is the Adam Lambert of the series. 13 is the Beiber of the series. I think we know which is worse.
 

Cantehman

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Maybe that could be said for FFX-2, but not FFX. Yuna just does whatever she's told to. It doesn't occur to her to attempt to find a way to defeat Sin without self sacrifice until Tidus suggests it. She constantly apologizes for being kidnapped, or for burdening her protectors with the duty of protecting her. It doesn't occur to her to defeat defeat Lady Yunalesca rather than summon the Final Aeon until her team recommends it. The only moment in the entire game that she seems to have any strength is at the very final scene when she agrees to lead the reconstruction efforts.
No, not really. She refused to sacrifice one of her friends for the final summoning. It's been a while for me, granted, but you're pretty much saying she'd just put one of her friends on the altar if it weren't for her companions speaking out (note: defeating Yunalesca is completely besides the point, it's about sacrificing/not sacrificing friends), which is just plain wrong. Both FF-X and X-2 are arguably about Yuna and her personality evolving.
 

anthony87

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......Is it just me or does some of this sound like it's been taken from The Spoony Experiment?
 

Mr.Pandah

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I was laughing through a good portion of the Cons. Not because they aren't true or anything like that, but because the way you wrote it all down, it was just...good, clean, fun. Thank you for the laugh (intentional or not). I will say that FFX was one of my favorite Final Fantasies and that FF9 was my favorite.
 

John Funk

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Tidus was a better main character than Cloud, Squall, and Vaan combined.
 

AcacianLeaves

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vazzaroth said:
I actually liked the lack of open world exploring. I always hated it in the other games... So much time wasted and so, so, SO many stupid random encounters. At least it always had good music.
I will agree with you about random encounters, but that was a problem throughout the game and not really unique to the overworld. Most of my fond memories of exploration were on an airship and thus devoid of random encounters anyway.

Tallim said:
I have to disagree as well. Mainly because I don't believe FF ever has gone downhill. I don't like FFXIII to be fair but not because it is a decline in the series quality but rather a change in direction that happens in most FF games in one way or another.

Overworld exploration is highly overrated in most JRPGs simply because there are very few places to actually go. This leads to the worldmap being at a basic level just one big random encounter zone. Or a corridor so wide you can't see the edges.

I do however agree that 6 was the best one.
Honestly I don't think 12 or 13 were necessarily BAD games, I just feel that the things I disliked about them have their roots in FFX.

I disagree about exploration. In FF6-FF8 you've got dozens of optional bosses, new areas to explore with new secret items and summons, FF6 and FF7 had secret characters you get through exploration, etc.

Mr.Pandah said:
I was laughing through a good portion of the Cons. Not because they aren't true or anything like that, but because the way you wrote it all down, it was just...good, clean, fun. Thank you for the laugh (intentional or not). I will say that FFX was one of my favorite Final Fantasies and that FF9 was my favorite.
Thank you for having a sense of humor :D . I figure if I'm going to write a long rant, I might as well try to make it entertaining to read.