Fixing Netflix's iron fist (spoilers)

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Souplex

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The problem with Iron Fist, Daredevil 2, and the Defenders is simple: The Hand.
It's time we as a society accepted that ninjas aren't cool.
 
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Queen Michael said:
I just watched the final episode and holy shitbuckets did that show suck. Maybe it's because I marathoned it, but the show is just so boring. Yeah, it starts out okay, but it never really gets going. It's like if the Springsteen "Glory Days" were to end after fifteen seconds--it wouldn't be as good a song, because that kick-ass intro is only good because something follows after it.

Also, why do we never get to see K'un-Lun? How does the series improve by not showing us that? "Yeah, we have this guy from a magical ancient city, who fought a dragon with his bare hands. So obviously, corporate board meetings and hostile takeovers is what we should focus on." Awesome idea! The next Spider-Man movie should focus on Aunt May doing her taxes!

And yeah, the fight scenes weren't great. You never got a feeling that Iron Fist was this invincible warrior god. He just felt like one out of many skilled fighters.

Another problem: All the most interesting characters were given the least focus (except for Madame Gao, who got the screentime she deserved). You know the guy who murdered people while singing karaoke? Or the drunk guy who spoke in that nifty British accent? Now those were interesting! But no, we got much more focus on Ward. And he was not that interesting. He actually had a decent arc, but not great. Not even good, IMO. Just not that bad. And Joy felt like a cookie-cutter character: a twenty-something woman who speaks in a soft almost whispering voice, and is strong but gets Very Emotional sometimes... She had no real unique personality.
Yeah I do wish the show had gone all out batshit crazy, or at least as much as it could with the budget (could they have afforded some proper wuxia-style wirework? That would have been way better than the slap fights we ended up with). Like, the Hand have realised Iron Fist is in town and are shitting themselves because of it, so they call in their best and wackiest assassins to try and take him down because normal mooks aren't going to cut it. That tournament episode needed to be more than just one episode, each of those fighters could have had an episode to themselves. Going into the show I was expecting something like a live action Kung Fu Panda, what I got was more like House Of Cards But With Punching. Yawn...
 

Souplex

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Pallindromemordnillap said:
Queen Michael said:
I just watched the final episode and holy shitbuckets did that show suck. Maybe it's because I marathoned it, but the show is just so boring. Yeah, it starts out okay, but it never really gets going. It's like if the Springsteen "Glory Days" were to end after fifteen seconds--it wouldn't be as good a song, because that kick-ass intro is only good because something follows after it.

Also, why do we never get to see K'un-Lun? How does the series improve by not showing us that? "Yeah, we have this guy from a magical ancient city, who fought a dragon with his bare hands. So obviously, corporate board meetings and hostile takeovers is what we should focus on." Awesome idea! The next Spider-Man movie should focus on Aunt May doing her taxes!

And yeah, the fight scenes weren't great. You never got a feeling that Iron Fist was this invincible warrior god. He just felt like one out of many skilled fighters.

Another problem: All the most interesting characters were given the least focus (except for Madame Gao, who got the screentime she deserved). You know the guy who murdered people while singing karaoke? Or the drunk guy who spoke in that nifty British accent? Now those were interesting! But no, we got much more focus on Ward. And he was not that interesting. He actually had a decent arc, but not great. Not even good, IMO. Just not that bad. And Joy felt like a cookie-cutter character: a twenty-something woman who speaks in a soft almost whispering voice, and is strong but gets Very Emotional sometimes... She had no real unique personality.
Yeah I do wish the show had gone all out batshit crazy, or at least as much as it could with the budget (could they have afforded some proper wuxia-style wirework? That would have been way better than the slap fights we ended up with). Like, the Hand have realised Iron Fist is in town and are shitting themselves because of it, so they call in their best and wackiest assassins to try and take him down because normal mooks aren't going to cut it. That tournament episode needed to be more than just one episode, each of those fighters could have had an episode to themselves. Going into the show I was expecting something like a live action Kung Fu Panda, what I got was more like House Of Cards But With Punching. Yawn...
Wire-fu is the worst.
Nothing has any weight, impact, or bite.
 
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Souplex said:
Wire-fu is the worst.
Nothing has any weight, impact, or bite.
And yet when you say a guy knows kung fu so good that his kung fu is literally magic its exactly what I expect. Keeping things real works for Daredevil, who is a normal squishy human, but when you're the sort of dude who explains his abilities with terms that start "well I focus my chi..." then you're going to look disappointing if you're not offering something thats at least as good as the grounded guy. Something way more bombastic is needed
 

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Souplex said:
The problem with Iron Fist, Daredevil 2, and the Defenders is simple: The Hand.
It's time we as a society accepted that ninjas aren't cool.
A singular ninja is cool. The fight against Nobu in DareDevil Season 1 is great.

Ninjas plural are lame. The fight against Nobu in DareDevil Season 2, with the addition or 20 more ninjas is incredibly uninteresting and a terrible climax for the show, especially since the ninjas are easily dispatched by the superpower known as "firing a gun."
 

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Queen Michael said:
I just watched the final episode and holy shitbuckets did that show suck.
Why'd you watch it then?
So that I could understand the plot of The Defenders. I've been looking forward to that show for years and if I have to sit through Iron Fist to enjoy it properly then so be it.
 

Kyrian007

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Queen Michael said:
Johnny Novgorod said:
Queen Michael said:
I just watched the final episode and holy shitbuckets did that show suck.
Why'd you watch it then?
So that I could understand the plot of The Defenders. I've been looking forward to that show for years and if I have to sit through Iron Fist to enjoy it properly then so be it.
I've got some bad news for you then. Defenders tries very hard to "fix" Iron Fist. It kind of spends all its time trying to "fix" the worst points of the Marvel Netflix universe rather than build on the story or even highlight what worked. What it turns out to be is an 8 episode extension of Iron Fist and the terrible second half of Daredevil season 2... with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage. Not story points or intrigue from JJ or LC, just the characters thrown in to IF + DD Season 2 (the bad half.)

But somehow it isn't bad. I just wish it had done its own thing. I wish the villain was more interesting than The Hand.
I wish they would stop making the exact same villain fakeout every single show they put out (at this point it will only be a twist when they STOP doing it.)
I'd rather they built on The Punisher angle of DD season 2 (the good part) or built on the powers/experiment angle of JJ and LC. Or even gave us Kingpin again... but nope, its Iron Fist and the worst parts of DD that they focus on. But, it wasn't bad. And it sets up for another season of one of the stand alone shows that COULD be the best thing we've seen yet. Just watch for post credits drop and that's followed by a trailer for the next Marvel show.
 

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Kyrian007 said:
But somehow it isn't bad. I just wish it had done its own thing. I wish the villain was more interesting than The Hand.
I wish they would stop making the exact same villain fakeout every single show they put out (at this point it will only be a twist when they STOP doing it.)
Ugh, I know. The show makes it clear within the first 5 minutes or so that "Yep, villain is going to be The Hand again". It also doesn't help that the first villain is generally the better, more interesting one, outshining their eventual replacements.

Aside from that, I think Defender is a step up from Iron Fist. Granted, not much of a benchmark, but there are things to like. Danny Rand isn't completely insufferable anymore. Some good performances, notably Charlie Cox, Sigourney Weaver and Mike Coulter. The interactions between the main quartet are quite fun. Some of the fight scenes are good, like the office hallway battle, although not quite on par with the single-take one from DD season 1.

Just watch for post credits drop and that's followed by a trailer for the next Marvel show.
Post-credits scene aside, I am looking forward to what they could do with Punisher. He was easily the best part of DD season 2 and one of the high points of the Netflix MCU as a whole.