Flip side, what if this was about ripping a woman's tits off to enable her to be a better archer?
What type of reaction would that get?
What type of reaction would that get?
"Forced Castration" Coming to Age of Wushu
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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In the context of the game, getting castrated does not give players any boost other then the ability to join the game's chaotic-evil clan. So assuming they used the "rip a woman's tits off" as the female way to join a class, there really wouldn't be any difference aside from the fact that there really isn't any historical documentation (that I know of) of removing breasts as a form of non-lethal punishment.Abomination said:
Sexual subtext aside, I don't know where I stand on this.
The optimist in me is saying this is neat! Imagine if other games did this! Like you could be a vampire in elder scrolls online (which I'm sure will be an option in some way at some point) but there would be no clear indication (like a little symbol above your head or whatever) and you could stealthily turn others somehow.
But the realist/pessimest in me knows for a fact that you can give an mmo community anything at all, and they'll find a way to grief with it. And finding a way to "misuse" a mechanic like this wouldn't even be a challenge.
The optimist in me is saying this is neat! Imagine if other games did this! Like you could be a vampire in elder scrolls online (which I'm sure will be an option in some way at some point) but there would be no clear indication (like a little symbol above your head or whatever) and you could stealthily turn others somehow.
But the realist/pessimest in me knows for a fact that you can give an mmo community anything at all, and they'll find a way to grief with it. And finding a way to "misuse" a mechanic like this wouldn't even be a challenge.
Goodness me, that's a mental image.Abomination said:
At least this has some historical relevance, like you pointed out earlier. I don't recall any stories about female archers getting, well, that done to them. Then again, I don't recall any stories about female archers in the first place.
Does that make it any better? Even in western culture we had some of this silliness.[footnote]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato[/footnote]
I've been told by classics majors that the Castrati were generally aspired to as well.[footnote]http://jdstone.org/cr/files/officialchurchpolicycastrati.html[/footnote] For whatever reason.
But female genital mutilation definitely has historical precedent. And current precedent too. So, with that being equal, would it get the same reaction? I dunno. Both make me feel rather squeamish. I'm not sure I'd play a game with the possibility of either happening to my character. My guess is it would get yelled down by the Internet much more, which was probably your point. But what do I know?
Edit: This is also the first I've heard of any kind of ability to permanently alter someone else's MMO character without their consent. I'm racking my brains to think of other examples but, nope. And what an extreme first precedent as well.
Even EvE Online, which is pretty damn ruthless, doesn't let you mess with other peoples' avatars.
oldtaku said:
Yeah, but pretty much anything can be sold into prostitution. Further hilarity ensues with the generally bad translations. AKA: you're selling men and women into "bondage" (and that's really not the worst of it).
Put epic lulz will be had with this clan once it releases in the west (which will probably be very long). Even though it's scary as shit as well. There are people in Wulin (EU version) who are already sharpening their knifes
Happy I rolled a female, we get to join a clan with pretty daisies and fingering techniques
Do you need to get forcefully and uncosentually sexually violated to become a vampire? Also its the whole gang violation stuff forced upon players who dont want to have their characters violated in tht way that makes it more then just a bit icky.bliebblob said:
If you want to chop your junk off.. go ahead not my business... but if you and four of your friends decide to go around chopping other guys junk off for shits and giggles? Yeah... no... such behavior should not be encouraged.
Also becoming a vampire is considered "cool" and "disirable" by many.
Getting your junk cut off in what amounts to a gang rape event? Yeah no...
Seriously i can not believe the amount of thumbs up this idea gets on these boards. With all the bullshit that games are allready blamed for do we really need to support this kind of idea too?
Also it really surprises me that the chinese goverment lets this get through.. considering that they even fought a massive legal battle against WoW and most western MMOs and/or making it very hard for them in general.
It's an evil cult in a video game. God forbid they do evil things.Karadalis said:
If you had said Genital Mutilation instead of rape then you'd be logically correct. However I kinda lost respect for you since you touted the rape foghorn right off the bat.
You must hate Dragon Age Origins then. When it mentions rape I bet you fly right off the handle.
Thing is, It's a video game. Yes I think it's out of line when they try to portray an act like castration or rape as a good/acceptable thing. But when it's not portrayed that way, when it's portrayed as the horrible act it is, then I'm fine with it simply existing within the game.
To be honest, I never even thought of the social reaction this would get. I just thought it would be a good believable, not shoe-horned in, game changer.
EDIT: For the record, I feel a bit squeamish about this either way. I was just looking past it and thought it might be a neat game mechanic.
Although I think you over-reacted a bit aswell.
Cool, more ammo for the "ban violent games" crowd.
Ok, wait, listen. I'm not saying that games can't mention or involve such topics as castration or sexual violence. I'm not saying this should be banned. I'm not advocating censorship or anything like that. Also I do not play this game nor have any plans to (and not just because of this news). Ok? Cool.
It's seriously strange for an MMO to include castration as a daily quest. Fact is that people respond to sexual violence on a different level than other kinds of violence. Sure, one of the first quests new players get in WoW is usually to kill someone and come back with their head. But there are few people signing up to play WoW that aren't expecting that, and the ones that aren't probably won't going to mind it anyway, since decapitation is not exactly unheard of in mainstream culture and entertainment. But something like castration? Just going from some of the reactions on here it's pretty obvious that it's a weightier subject for most. Then forced castration on top of that? That's dark and serious, and tonally it just doesn't mesh with a colorful and fun MMO.
That it is limited to high level characters means that there is at least small to no chance of a new player jumping into the game only to have this happen right away. Still I feel like this is something that will be disturbing to a non-trivial number of players. The question remains whether or not this is going to be handled with tact. The video footage shows a private tent that the act is taking place in which is good, but still, this is an incredibly odd thing to add into an MMO.
Ok, wait, listen. I'm not saying that games can't mention or involve such topics as castration or sexual violence. I'm not saying this should be banned. I'm not advocating censorship or anything like that. Also I do not play this game nor have any plans to (and not just because of this news). Ok? Cool.
It's seriously strange for an MMO to include castration as a daily quest. Fact is that people respond to sexual violence on a different level than other kinds of violence. Sure, one of the first quests new players get in WoW is usually to kill someone and come back with their head. But there are few people signing up to play WoW that aren't expecting that, and the ones that aren't probably won't going to mind it anyway, since decapitation is not exactly unheard of in mainstream culture and entertainment. But something like castration? Just going from some of the reactions on here it's pretty obvious that it's a weightier subject for most. Then forced castration on top of that? That's dark and serious, and tonally it just doesn't mesh with a colorful and fun MMO.
That it is limited to high level characters means that there is at least small to no chance of a new player jumping into the game only to have this happen right away. Still I feel like this is something that will be disturbing to a non-trivial number of players. The question remains whether or not this is going to be handled with tact. The video footage shows a private tent that the act is taking place in which is good, but still, this is an incredibly odd thing to add into an MMO.
First off, it's not a daily quest. This particular faction is one of the rare new factions that they are adding to the Chinese version. It will be a rare thing to become a member.
That new faction has an "array" (a cooperative group skill), which they can use to castrate another male player.
The function of that is to find new members for the sect. Because only castrated males can join. So victims of the array have a chance to join that faction (they won't necessarily get in, but they can try other ways).
The reason why they have only Eunuchs, is that in Wuxia fiction, one of the ways to attain great power is to be a castrate. Possibly because it tempers the sexual urges etc. normally present in men so that they don't waste "internal energy". That's a belief system present in many ancient cultures btw. The strongest person in Wuxia fiction (Dongfang Bubai, the invincible east), was a Eunuch for example.
Age of Wushu / Wulin just follows those works of fiction, set in ancient China and the players happen to find ways to "have fun" themselves.
That new faction has an "array" (a cooperative group skill), which they can use to castrate another male player.
The function of that is to find new members for the sect. Because only castrated males can join. So victims of the array have a chance to join that faction (they won't necessarily get in, but they can try other ways).
The reason why they have only Eunuchs, is that in Wuxia fiction, one of the ways to attain great power is to be a castrate. Possibly because it tempers the sexual urges etc. normally present in men so that they don't waste "internal energy". That's a belief system present in many ancient cultures btw. The strongest person in Wuxia fiction (Dongfang Bubai, the invincible east), was a Eunuch for example.
Age of Wushu / Wulin just follows those works of fiction, set in ancient China and the players happen to find ways to "have fun" themselves.
Yeah because genital mutilation is not as traumatizing as the act of sticking your dick into someone not consenting right?CpT_x_Killsteal said:
Its the same and dont try to discuss semantics here, rape is the act of sexually overpowering a nonconsenting party... and if mutilating someones sexual identity isnt rape then i dont want tp know your definition as to what counts as rape. Heres and example: how about you ask all those african girls how they felt after getting "circumsized"?
Overreacting? Hardly. People where crying out about someone making a game about a school shooting a couple of years ago but virtually cutting someones dick off against the players will is a-okey.. gotcha.
Also i dont give a rats ass about being respected by the sort of person who makes up excuses why this sort of "feature" should be a-okay in a game.. an mmo none the less. Because that is actually what i am more pissed off about and just shows that the rape apologist culture has made its way even into the gaming culture as it seems.. ofcourse right now only aslong as its against males.
Evil cult =/= sexual violence. If all you can think off as an evil char to express yourselfe is to use sexual violence youre not evil, youre a sick psychopath. Basing a whole faction around this one feature... yeah thanks no.
Also dragon age only mentions and implies rape, it never happens to your character, you never get the oportunity to rape someone and you sure as hell dont get a group of friends together to rape/genitaly mutilate another player controlled character in a "fun" little event, because its not a multyplayer game. Nice straw hat there thought.
The big issue is that this is nonconsensual, as i said before if you decide to cut off your chars own junk its not my business, but if you decide to cut of my chars private bits or those of another player thats where i draw the line.
This is still a game and not a torture/rape simulator. How is this idea "fun" for anyone but those that force this upon others? Was this feature really necesary? Did people actually ask for the ability to cut other peoples dicks off? If yes then i really dont want to meet that sort of player on the open street.
EDITH:
About the fiction part: Did the people in fiction also got castratet against their will or was it rather something you did to yourselfe to gain this power?
Because if its only something you do to yourselfe i dont give a rats ass... again: its the nonconsensual part and it being apologised or deemed as something "grrat gamechanging" and put in a positive light that makes me loose faith in the escapist community.. or atleast the part thats posting on this topic.
Plenty of things are as traumatizing as rape, but that doesn't make it rape.Karadalis said:
Nope, it's [a href=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape]the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse. [/a]Karadalis said:
In other words, no intercourse, no rape. The fact it's just as bad in your eyes doesn't make it rape.
Except nobody's saying that genital mutilation is a-ok, because it's done by the evil faction in the game. Surely you can underst- oh wait.Karadalis said:
There are two things wrong with this.Karadalis said:
A) I'm pretty sure being a sick psychopath qualifies you as "evil"
B) Nobody plays an evil character to "express themselves", they do it because it's fun to be a dick. Nobody want's to legitimately cut somebodies dick off as much as they don't want to kill somebody and teabag them in real-life because they did it in Call of Duty.
The feature is mostly used as a gimmicky way to let the evil faction be actually evil without actually doing anything actually harmful to a character and used due to the fact there is actual historical precedent in Chinese history. Would people specifically ask for it? Probably not, but it's an interesting way to blend story and gameplay while still catering to the game's historical background. Sure the game isn't a torture/rape simulator, but we're not shown a graphical depiction of somebody getting their dick cut off, we're literally just shown a tent. It's as much of a torture/rape simulator as "Mass Effect" is a sex-simulator. And as I said before, doing any harm to another player is "fun" to people, this just has the bonus of not doing permanent non-cosmetic penalties for the character.Karadalis said:
It would be weird if it wasn't based (somewhat) historically on the games time period and setting.
Idea: What if they made an MMO set in ancient tribal Africa, where upon if you are caught stealing, they cut your PC's hands off?
Hell they could just extend it to cheaters in general.
Like to hack? Have fun not being able to fight ever again.
Idea: What if they made an MMO set in ancient tribal Africa, where upon if you are caught stealing, they cut your PC's hands off?
Hell they could just extend it to cheaters in general.
Like to hack? Have fun not being able to fight ever again.
So wait, to join the faction, you have to be a eunuch, which is why gangs of their members travel around castrating dudes against their will.
Is there gonna be an option to voluntarily castrate yourself of your own free will? In case you'd like to join them but would prefer not to be mutilated by a group of angry dickless men?
Allow me a moment of 5th-grader chuckling.
Is there gonna be an option to voluntarily castrate yourself of your own free will? In case you'd like to join them but would prefer not to be mutilated by a group of angry dickless men?
A castrate called DONGfang?Fdzzaigl said:
Allow me a moment of 5th-grader chuckling.
I wonder what their PR team is doing atm. And i pity the guy who has to setup a feature list later on.
"Go around with your best friends, chopping dicks off!" (oh i would love to HEAR that in a feature video)
Meh, its a game. I assume its 18+? In that case let the players decide if its ok. I'll prob check it out, if only because i like to try out different things. If its not 18+, then i have more issues with its age restriction system that the mechanics itself.
Yes, it is pretty extreme, but only if you compare it to modern gaming, where nothing bad happens no matter what you do. I mean, dying during suicide mission in mass effect 2 was considered "shocking" ffs, and should be merely normal considering your fuckups.
I have however to wonder, how much the outcry is lessened by the fact that it is done to males.....
"Go around with your best friends, chopping dicks off!" (oh i would love to HEAR that in a feature video)
Meh, its a game. I assume its 18+? In that case let the players decide if its ok. I'll prob check it out, if only because i like to try out different things. If its not 18+, then i have more issues with its age restriction system that the mechanics itself.
Yes, it is pretty extreme, but only if you compare it to modern gaming, where nothing bad happens no matter what you do. I mean, dying during suicide mission in mass effect 2 was considered "shocking" ffs, and should be merely normal considering your fuckups.
I have however to wonder, how much the outcry is lessened by the fact that it is done to males.....
The OP seemed to suggest that male characters who trained a certain skill would be allowed in. I don't know if training the skill is supposed to be a euphemism for self-castration, but I assume that it is.jurnag12 said:
Edit: Or you get an item which then allows you to self-castrate. Frankly, I don't really want to imagine this any longer.
Now, while I am somewhat aboard with the whole hypocrisy of male genital mutilation being ok, to be available as interaction in game, while anything near females lady-parts is a definite no-no, I got to say you have the bizarrest idea of evil I have ever come across. What do you think is evil? Chanting around in a circle while wearing spiffy capes but never actually doing anything?Karadalis said:
OT: Heck, why not? I imagine the threat of getting your precious char getting castrated adds a whole new level of excitement to playing. Anyone whose at any level attached to their char will go absolute berserk to keep it from happening and I imagine they'll walk away afterwards with a memory of a battle really worth remembering. Also, I've said many times before, but if we are already consenting to murder as interaction, it really seems silly to not consent to torture and its sub-tropes.