Forever Alone (And Why Therapy Doesn't Seem to Get It)

[Paragon Fury]

If you tried that logic on me, I'd accuse you of causation/correlation confusion.

Do your background check on the topic. A book on the subject is called "Wired for Intimacy."

And I just quick looked that up.

And I wouldn't buy that book if you paid me to. Considering the book was written for and by Christians, that blows ALL sorts of credibility holes in it. The kinds of holes any freshman level college student could see, or anyone who works in any sort of scientific research.

 

[AMMO Kid]

If you tried that logic on me, I'd accuse you of causation/correlation confusion.

Do your background check on the topic. A book on the subject is called "Wired for Intimacy."

And I just quick looked that up.

And I wouldn't buy that book if you paid me to. Considering the book was written for and by Christians, that blows ALL sorts of credibility holes in it. The kinds of holes any freshman level college student could see, or anyone who works in any sort of scientific research.

It was written by a man who used to study the topic and found the same thing and eventually became a Christian. This isn't a "don't do it cause Jesus says no" book, this book references more secular authors on the subject than any other Christian book I have ever read.

 

[ShakeyJake]

but it's been proven that men that view porn eventually lose desires to be with real women.

Just no to this. By all means you're doing yourself a disservice if you expect real women to be like pron women but if anything I'd say porn is a healthy way to work on your sexual desires.

First post - just for you.

I'm sorry, but I laughed out loud when I read this. Not to loud, just to myself.

Buy and then read the book "Wired for Intimacy." It explains the research that scientists have found in the past few years on how porn rewires the male brain and it actually makes men have worse sex because of what part of the sex porn makes us focus on.

I tried, but I refuse to pay for it and can't obtain it by other means. Considering it's written by Christians and is aimed at Christians I call bull. In truth, very little actual research has been done into the long-term affects of pornography, but most of it points to it being harmless. It's very hard to get results wither way, because something long-term cannot easily be accounted for in a short lab study. Find me a proper study (or, if you own the book, show me some it's references) and then we'll talk.

How does the book state specifically that porn makes sex worse? what "part of the the sex" does porn make us focus on specifically?

 

[RollForInitiative]

Long story short, women respond to confidence and you basically have very little in spite of how you've tried to describe yourself.

That's all it really boils down to. You'll probably have a better time getting that confidence level up if you can find people in your general age range that share your hobbies. I never had too much trouble finding people interesting in games, though not as interested as I was at that age. Once I got out of college, though, I suddenly found a Hell of a lot more people as a side effect of my career. I'm surrounded by people that share my core hobbies now and I've noticed that it does a lot for a person's sense of self and confidence.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

I don't really understand how guys can put these anime girls up on a pedestal. It's a cartoon. They won't talk to you or touch you or love you. Real women are wonderful. If you find the right one she's a lot of fun to talk to, usually smells good, and is nice and soft. Just get back on the horse and give socializing another try. Of course don't go on the prowl because you'll just come off as a creep. Just go looking for friends and see what happens.

 

[Katana314]

Just wanted to say, much of the stuff said in this thread is reflected in me. I can also definitely agree that in some, twisted way, I WANT to be wallowing in self-degredation, which prevents a lot from getting better. I also had a psychiatrist that agreed with what some people have said; "Don't actively seek friends or partners. Focus on doing something to better yourself, show off your ideas or abilities, and make yourself look interesting to people; ideally, someone will show interest in you when you weren't actually expecting or looking for it."
My addition; then, if you want to feel like an empowered dick and turn the tables, reject them.

I think I can agree about the "porn/anime heightens your expectations" thing. I've been turned off of so many anime simply because I just can't believe the "forwardness" of most of the female characters involved, especially that someone might eventually consider it believable. I have a strong imagination, and I use that as my own personal "porn library" in a way, but that's all. I kind of expect for real-life women to be very different, but in the same way you'd try to impress someone else with your uniqueness, women could very well do the same to you.

 

[Pearwood]

Though I don't exactly remember what the therapist said, it was something along the lines of "unrealistic and deficient ideas about women causing issues with normal socialization". I do remember getting into a fairly long debate about reality vs. fantasy and their affects on each other with her, though it didn't really get anywhere.

If I'm honest it doesn't sound like you're doing your part. Therapists can't help you in any way, all they can do is give you a way to help yourself. If she says that your expectations about women are the problem then you should work on that with her. And it does sound like she has a point, you even said yourself if a woman hasn't been designed to be perfect either by CGI or Hollywood make-up artists you aren't interested and everything you say about them is related to their physical attributes. Not sure why you're getting into a debate with her either.

 

[Dogstile]

snip

Right, this has worked on everyone i've ever tried this on.

Think of every person above the age of 30 that you know. Got em all? Good.

Now try to count how many of them have been alone all their lives. Have any of them never gotten close to a special person?

Chances are, none have. You'll meet someone, the challenge is keeping them.

 

[Chrono180]

I know what you are going through, as I was bullied really badly by my classmates as well. In my case, I eventually wound up coping by curling up in a ball of hatred so intense that I would not be hurt any more because I was no longer cared for the world. I also swore off romance, because having done research on such problems as abuse, rape, divorce, unplanned pregnancies etc, I decided that the risk of getting in a bad relationship and having your life ruined was too high to warrant taking the chance. Put simply, love is not worth the risk.

 

[AMMO Kid]

but it's been proven that men that view porn eventually lose desires to be with real women.

Just no to this. By all means you're doing yourself a disservice if you expect real women to be like pron women but if anything I'd say porn is a healthy way to work on your sexual desires.

First post - just for you.

I'm sorry, but I laughed out loud when I read this. Not to loud, just to myself.

Buy and then read the book "Wired for Intimacy." It explains the research that scientists have found in the past few years on how porn rewires the male brain and it actually makes men have worse sex because of what part of the sex porn makes us focus on.

I tried, but I refuse to pay for it and can't obtain it by other means. Considering it's written by Christians and is aimed at Christians I call bull. In truth, very little actual research has been done into the long-term affects of pornography, but most of it points to it being harmless. It's very hard to get results wither way, because something long-term cannot easily be accounted for in a short lab study. Find me a proper study (or, if you own the book, show me some it's references) and then we'll talk.

How does the book state specifically that porn makes sex worse? what "part of the the sex" does porn make us focus on specifically?

Just because a writer is of a certain religion or belief should not mean that his or her book should be immediately seen as subjective information, especially when the information has been found to be true by both religious and secular psychiatrists. There is talk of the Bible and such in this book, but it is not the main reason why he says that porn rots the brain.

To answer your last questions: There are two sides of sex. The physical side, and the intimacy side. These come together to make a scale with intimacy on one side and physical on the other. Porn cannot bring the sense of intimacy with another human being into sex, and therefore the viewer is taught to focus on the physical side (sex positions etc). Porn eventually rewires the brain of the one who views it to look to have the most enjoyable experience in sex possible, which isn't a bad thing, but it means that the intimacy level of sex is completely bankrupt. When a person goes into sex with a committed partner and this person does not repeatably look at nudity or porn, this person can enjoy the sex more because of the exclusivity of the relationship. Exclusivity fuels romance/sex appeal. This isn't in the book, but a college professor did a study a few years ago on what kind of people have the best sex. The answer was married Christian women. Eventually the physical side comes with the intimacy side of sex, but when people view pornography they focus on the physical side first, which eventually leads to the union between two people to be less bonding.

Of course, if you don't care about any of that and just want to have sex with random women then look at all the porn you want to

 

[RabbidKuriboh]

very similar to my current condition, except minus the tough upbringing, genius level inteligence and the bullying. i don't really have anything to contribute to my crap

but i've got my dogs and my friends, so i won't be forever alone in the literal sense but as far as finding a suitable gir, looking sketchy

 

[Paragon Fury]

Though I don't exactly remember what the therapist said, it was something along the lines of "unrealistic and deficient ideas about women causing issues with normal socialization". I do remember getting into a fairly long debate about reality vs. fantasy and their affects on each other with her, though it didn't really get anywhere.

If I'm honest it doesn't sound like you're doing your part. Therapists can't help you in any way, all they can do is give you a way to help yourself. If she says that your expectations about women are the problem then you should work on that with her. And it does sound like she has a point, you even said yourself if a woman hasn't been designed to be perfect either by CGI or Hollywood make-up artists you aren't interested and everything you say about them is related to their physical attributes. Not sure why you're getting into a debate with her either.

Alright.....that was kind of hard to understand. But I never said anything about real women not living up to "fake" women. Also, its not that I only talked about their physical appearance; its just that I wanted to save everyone the long winded explanation I gave to the therapist and gave them two people I thought the Escapist would be familiar with (this site being a decent fan anime) to get the idea.

 

[CaptainLoserPants]

I can relate somewhat to what you're going through, though I never had a hard time making friends or was treated badly at school (guess I had a way of finding the right people to surround myself with).
I don't go out to parties like the average college student (drinking and all that jazz), finding more enjoyment in going home and reading a book or watching a movie. Thus, I've never been in a situation to meet someone to find a close relationship, blah blah. Because of this, that fear of never meeting someone, or feeling I was missing out on whatever has crept into my mind, that I was too distracted by the fantasies I was obsessed with in books, or movies, games or my in my portfolio. So when I was introduced to the forever alone meme jokingly by a friend, I laughed but internally cringed. That's me? Oh jeez o man.

But then the thought struck me, there are others who don't NEED to find the supposed "happiness" of a partner. Maybe not everyone is destined to be the married sort, or such. So find happiness in what you do, your hobbies, your books. Because life shouldn't rest on whether or not you hop into bed with someone each night. Does that make sense? Thought my little self-help epiphany would help.

 

[Nickolai77]

I'd say to some people watching anime can screw up their perceptions of women. Anime girls are, in both terms of appearance and behaviour, perfect girlfriends for certain types of people (anime fans) and so of course real women fall short of these expectations. However, i think most anime fans are rational enough to recognise that there is a divide between fact and fiction, and that many anime girls are essentially wish-fulfilment characters with not base in reality.

Same goes for porn imo, since someone's brought it up. If a person's rational enough, they'll know that most women won't do the kind of things that pornstars do, and so should not set their expectations so high.

Also, on the subject of being single i'll share some thoughts:

If anyone is ever feeling down, depressed or insecure about being single, always remember that you have much more freedom than any individual whom is in a relationship. I was thinking to myself today what i would like to do after university. My ideas included, for instance, going somewhere like China to teach English, or working as a tour-guide in Europe, ideally in a German speaking territory so i can improve my German. Or, i could save up a load of money and go on a European road trip with a few friends in a mini-van and drive from youth hostel or youth hostel all across the continent. (Think perhaps like Scooby Doo, only less mysteries and more swearing, drinking, partying and hopefully sex)[footnote]Then again, it was pretty darn obvious that a lot of sex must have gone on in the scooby-gang off screen.[/footnote]


Then it occurred to me that i would be very difficult to do any of these things if i had a girlfriend. I couldn't turn round to her and say i'm off to the far corner of the world to teach English for six months, that would be unfair on her. If your a single adult, the only limit to your freedom is money, and that can be worked around by working. If you are an adult in a relationship, you've got your significant other to worry about.

I then happily thought to myself that i'm in win-lose-win-lose situation. If i actually do get into a relationship whilst at university (which is unlikely in my case) then i get all the psycho-social benefits that come from being in a relationship. If i don't get a girlfriend, hell i'm free to do anything i want.

So, to all the anxious single guys on the Escapist (yes there is a lot of you!) just remember that so long as you remain single, your only limitation is yourself. You are free, and your freedom only increases as you grow older and earn money, so long as you remain single at least.

 

[The_Decoy]

Porn eventually rewires the brain of the one who views it to look to have the most enjoyable experience in sex possible, which isn't a bad thing, but it means that the intimacy level of sex is completely bankrupt.

Fuck that man, I'm with the people calling bullshit. I've watched porn for years and sex with my girlfriend has not been reduced to a purely physical act. I think sex with a committed partner should always be intimate, otherwise what's the point? This just strikes me as propaganda more than anything, I'm sorry.

And, if you don't mind me asking, what is your religion and do you watch porn?

Anyways, back on topic - do what people have been saying. Accept invitations, talk to people (or, more importantly, *listen* to people. People like being listened to, it makes them feel important) and generally don't try to be a dick. I tried this, it works pretty well

 

[AMMO Kid]

Just a question, but how much porn do you view? Yes, your childhood onward has definitely been the main contributor to this whole "forever alone" thing, but it's been proven that men that view porn eventually lose desires to be with real women.

Proven by whom?

That sounds like absolute bullshit to me.

Read my future comments

 

[AMMO Kid]

Porn eventually rewires the brain of the one who views it to look to have the most enjoyable experience in sex possible, which isn't a bad thing, but it means that the intimacy level of sex is completely bankrupt.

Fuck that man, I'm with the people calling bullshit. I've watched porn for years and sex with my girlfriend has not been reduced to a purely physical act. I think sex with a committed partner should always be intimate, otherwise what's the point? This just strikes me as propaganda more than anything, I'm sorry.

And, if you don't mind me asking, what is your religion and do you watch porn?

Anyways, back on topic - do what people have been saying. Accept invitations, talk to people (or, more importantly, *listen* to people. People like being listened to, it makes them feel important) and generally don't try to be a dick. I tried this, it works pretty well

I'm sorry, let me rephrase that. What I meant to get across was not that people who look at porn experience nothing more than a physical act, what I meant to get across that it is nothing in comparison to those who do not watch porn.

I believe in Jesus, and yes, I have looked at porn in the past. However, I am very glad I quit watching it because I have definitely seen my relationships with women improve since (and I already have a girlfriend). When I watched porn my mind felt different than it does now; and after experiencing life without it for a while now, I can safely say that my mind feels free. I'm not exactly sure how to say it better than that. I just feel free.

And btw I started this conversation with a simple question, the thread host answered, and we left it at that. It's all the other people who are disagreeing with me who are causing this big discussion.