Forgotten Smallpox Vials Found In Lab Clear-Out: More Found Update

[Sight Unseen]

Maybe this is just my imagination running wild, but I can just see the destroying of the vials as a ruse, and instead the smallpox will be re-purposed as a biological weapon.

It was the vaccinia virus that was destroyed, not the smallpox virus. Vaccinia virus makes the vaccine (hence the name) but cannot cause the disease on its own.

The smallpox vials were sent to the high-containment CDC labs in Atlanta, where they already have smallpox stores. So if they really wanted to turn them into weapons, then they could have whenever they wanted to. But keep in mind that Russia also has a lab which stores smallpox and I really, really don't think we want to start a second cold war with bioweapons instead of nuclear ones...

 

[Scars Unseen]

By the way, I don't know if it's still being done, but I received a smallpox vaccine in the US Air Force prior to deploying in 2006, so those dates in the article seem a bit off. It gave me a scar that looks kind of like a cigarette burn.

 

[InsanityRequiem]

By the way, I don't know if it's still being done, but I received a smallpox vaccine in the US Air Force prior to deploying in 2006, so those dates in the article seem a bit off. It gave me a scar that looks kind of like a cigarette burn.

Nope. The general population vaccination program for Smallpox ended some time in the 1980s. Basically, if Smallpox were to break out in the US, the only people it won't affect are you folks in the military and everyone 36 and over. Basically two entire generations (Children and young adults) will suffer majorly if Smallpox ever returns.

 

[Scars Unseen]

By the way, I don't know if it's still being done, but I received a smallpox vaccine in the US Air Force prior to deploying in 2006, so those dates in the article seem a bit off. It gave me a scar that looks kind of like a cigarette burn.

Nope. The general population vaccination program for Smallpox ended some time in the 1980s. Basically, if Smallpox were to break out in the US, the only people it won't affect are you folks in the military and everyone 36 and over. Basically two entire generations (Children and young adults) will suffer majorly if Smallpox ever returns.

I'm not sure what that was about. I'm talking about the part of the article that said that the military got the vaccine between 2002 and 2004. Since I got my vaccine 2 years after that, the dates are off.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

holy shit theres more, is like bio-terrorist christmas

good thing they contacted the authorities

 

[FalloutJack]

If they had been found by a madman.... holy shit I don't even want to think about that :/

I dunno, wouldn't that go sort of like...?

"Bwa ha ha ha haaa! With these vials, I will re-introduce Small Pox to the world! ...which they have a viable cure for...and the CDC will clamp down on faster than you can say 'We tend not to fuck around'. Dammit, I didn't think this through!"

Granted, on the short term, that would be terrible, but it'd be the same as fighting the Robot Master boss rush at the end of a Megaman game. We already know how to beat it and have the tools at our fingertips.

 

[Yopaz]

If they had been found by a madman.... holy shit I don't even want to think about that :/

I dunno, wouldn't that go sort of like...?

"Bwa ha ha ha haaa! With these vials, I will re-introduce Small Pox to the world! ...which they have a viable cure for...and the CDC will clamp down on faster than you can say 'We tend not to fuck around'. Dammit, I didn't think this through!"

Granted, on the short term, that would be terrible, but it'd be the same as fighting the Robot Master boss rush at the end of a Megaman game. We already know how to beat it and have the tools at our fingertips.

Fun fact: There is no cure for smallpox. There is a vaccine. It prevents us from getting smallpox. If you actually get smallpox you're most likely screwed. Considering that the vaccinations stopped after it was declared extinct it could actually be pretty bad if it was done right.

 

[FalloutJack]

If they had been found by a madman.... holy shit I don't even want to think about that :/

I dunno, wouldn't that go sort of like...?

"Bwa ha ha ha haaa! With these vials, I will re-introduce Small Pox to the world! ...which they have a viable cure for...and the CDC will clamp down on faster than you can say 'We tend not to fuck around'. Dammit, I didn't think this through!"

Granted, on the short term, that would be terrible, but it'd be the same as fighting the Robot Master boss rush at the end of a Megaman game. We already know how to beat it and have the tools at our fingertips.

Fun fact: There is no cure for smallpox. There is a vaccine. It prevents us from getting smallpox. If you actually get smallpox you're most likely screwed. Considering that the vaccinations stopped after it was declared extinct it could actually be pretty bad if it was done right.

My statement is still valid. It's terrible, but we actually know what to do with it.

 

[Yopaz]

If they had been found by a madman.... holy shit I don't even want to think about that :/

I dunno, wouldn't that go sort of like...?

"Bwa ha ha ha haaa! With these vials, I will re-introduce Small Pox to the world! ...which they have a viable cure for...and the CDC will clamp down on faster than you can say 'We tend not to fuck around'. Dammit, I didn't think this through!"

Granted, on the short term, that would be terrible, but it'd be the same as fighting the Robot Master boss rush at the end of a Megaman game. We already know how to beat it and have the tools at our fingertips.

Fun fact: There is no cure for smallpox. There is a vaccine. It prevents us from getting smallpox. If you actually get smallpox you're most likely screwed. Considering that the vaccinations stopped after it was declared extinct it could actually be pretty bad if it was done right.

My statement is still valid. It's terrible, but we actually know what to do with it.

No, it is not valid unless you lack important knowledge on vaccination difficulties, but I won't go into details there.

However the part where your point loses any validity is the part where you said there is a cure for it. There is not by means a cure for smallpox which makes your statement incorrect, which makes it by definition WRONG. You can continue to maintain your stance and be wrong and stubborn or you can gracefully admit that you stand corrected.

 

[FalloutJack]

If they had been found by a madman.... holy shit I don't even want to think about that :/

I dunno, wouldn't that go sort of like...?

"Bwa ha ha ha haaa! With these vials, I will re-introduce Small Pox to the world! ...which they have a viable cure for...and the CDC will clamp down on faster than you can say 'We tend not to fuck around'. Dammit, I didn't think this through!"

Granted, on the short term, that would be terrible, but it'd be the same as fighting the Robot Master boss rush at the end of a Megaman game. We already know how to beat it and have the tools at our fingertips.

Fun fact: There is no cure for smallpox. There is a vaccine. It prevents us from getting smallpox. If you actually get smallpox you're most likely screwed. Considering that the vaccinations stopped after it was declared extinct it could actually be pretty bad if it was done right.

My statement is still valid. It's terrible, but we actually know what to do with it.

No, it is not valid unless you lack important knowledge on vaccination difficulties, but I won't go into details there.

However the part where your point loses any validity is the part where you said there is a cure for it. There is not by means a cure for smallpox which makes your statement incorrect, which makes it by definition WRONG. You can continue to maintain your stance and be wrong and stubborn or you can gracefully admit that you stand corrected.

Tell you what, I'll stand corrected if you admit copping an attitude to get me there.

I meant that we have more than zero experience handling the small pox, because we do. It's not a mystery ailment anymore.

Captcha: Play a game

I got an idea. I'll run this on that steam game I got. I'll call it Nu-Pox. If I win, you're right.

 

[Yopaz]

I got an idea. I'll run this on that steam game I got. I'll call it Nu-Pox. If I win, you're right.

No I got an idea. Answer me this: Is there a cure for smallpox?

If the answer is no then you are wrong.

The answer IS no. You are wrong and you refuse to admit it. Not knowing or understanding something is OK. Refusing to educate yourself is not. If ignorance gives you bliss, keep going, but don't EVER present your ignorance as a fact.

 

[Megalodon]

Fun fact: There is no cure for smallpox. There is a vaccine. It prevents us from getting smallpox. If you actually get smallpox you're most likely screwed. Considering that the vaccinations stopped after it was declared extinct it could actually be pretty bad if it was done right.

To be more accurate, there's no known cure for smallpox. However, the vaccine can still be administered after infection to reduce the severity of symptoms. Plus there's evidence that existing antivirals would prove effective against the smallpox virus, medicine being somewhat more advanced now than it was in the 1970s. But there's thankfully not been the need to test the hypothesis.

http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/1/1.full

 

[FalloutJack]

Zoop

Fun fact: There is no cure for smallpox. There is a vaccine. It prevents us from getting smallpox. If you actually get smallpox you're most likely screwed. Considering that the vaccinations stopped after it was declared extinct it could actually be pretty bad if it was done right.

To be more accurate, there's no known cure for smallpox. However, the vaccine can still be administered after infection to reduce the severity of symptoms. Plus there's evidence that existing antivirals would prove effective against the smallpox virus, medicine being somewhat more advanced now than it was in the 1970s. But there's thankfully not been the need to test the hypothesis.

http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/1/1.full

This was pretty much the point I was making. You didn't have to make a big thing about it with your attitude. Now chill out or I'll release Nu-Pox to the world (in my game).

 

[Yopaz]

Fun fact: There is no cure for smallpox. There is a vaccine. It prevents us from getting smallpox. If you actually get smallpox you're most likely screwed. Considering that the vaccinations stopped after it was declared extinct it could actually be pretty bad if it was done right.

To be more accurate, there's no known cure for smallpox. However, the vaccine can still be administered after infection to reduce the severity of symptoms. Plus there's evidence that existing antivirals would prove effective against the smallpox virus, medicine being somewhat more advanced now than it was in the 1970s. But there's thankfully not been the need to test the hypothesis.

http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/54/1/1.full

Actually, antivirals MIGHT be effective, but they don't know for sure. It's hardly a cure once the disease has been allowed to present itself it's too late for a vaccine. Also how quickly do you think doctors are to recognize a disease that is extinct considering that there are several less dangerous diseases that present similar symptoms?

It would be like calling the cops on a triceratops rummaging in your backyard. If it's true then it would be sensational. You also have to wait for the vaccine to be made, distributed and administered. Vaccines are not of global use due to the various ways the cell surface may change in terms of protein complexes presented to the immune system. It's even a possibility that the classic vaccines aren't as useful now as they were before due to these changes. Making vaccines theoretically easy, but in the real world it is not.

This was pretty much the point I was making. You didn't have to make a big thing about it with your attitude. Now chill out or I'll release Nu-Pox to the world (in my game).

Yes, but your point demonstrates lack of knowledge in immunology so it is in no way valid. However I understand where you're coming from here. You're wrong by any definition of wrong and you don't want admit that. deny facts all you want, I'm out.

 

[FalloutJack]

Boit

The CDC will hear of this. You should have more trust in the medical profession. (Or at least not harass people.)

 

[Yopaz]

Boit

The CDC will hear of this. You should have more trust in the medical profession. (Or at least not harass people.)

I trust medical science as much as it can be trusted, but unlike you I have knowledge in the form of education in this field. You know how it should work and that we have performed what could be explained as miracles over the past 100 or so years. Admirable, but you have complete lack of understanding here.

The CDC will hear of it eventually. From doctors. Doctors who have never encountered smallpox and know that smallpox is the least likely alternative given there are similar diseases that aren't EXTINCT. The CDC aren't psychics. If they did not know about the vials of smallpox in the first place no-one can report them as missing so there would be no need to suddenly start producing vaccines and start a new vaccination program.

Then also remember that over the last few years we actually had a vaccination scandal in the form of swine flu vaccine so people might be a bit skeptical to get an emergency vaccine. You know, the fact that people got narcolepsy following the swine flu vaccination. I could go into details to the leading hypothesis to why this happened, but you'd just ignore it anyway.

There's diagnostic problems, there are problems in making and distributing the vaccine and there are the trust of the people to consider.

Also I asked you if there was a cure or not. Stop trying to divert my attention by lashing out on your unwillingness to learn or admit that you're wrong. Answer me: Is there a cure? Yes? No?

Edit: Also I will stop calling you ignorant once you stop being and taking pride in being ignorant.

 

[Megalodon]

Actually, antivirals MIGHT be effective, but they don't know for sure.

Yes, that's what I said (or at least was trying to say). If the trends observed in the murine model in the study I linked accurately extrapolate to humans (which obviously is the hope), then cidofovir would provide effective treatment for smallpox. But hopefully we'll never know for sure.

It's hardly a cure once the disease has been allowed to present itself it's too late for a vaccine.

How do you define a 'cure' then? While you're right that post exposure vaccination doesn't help patient zero, it would certainly be advantageous to any number of people exposed to that patient during disease incubation.

Also how quickly do you think doctors are to recognize a disease that is extinct considering that there are several less dangerous diseases that present similar symptoms?

Depends on the circumstances. If there's been a containment breach at the CDC, or if one of the NIH/FDA workers exposed to those vials was taken ill, almost immediately. In some implausible bio-terrorism event? Probably longer.

By similar diseases to you mean other poxviruses? Which can successfully be treated with antivirals? So if the predictions are accurate, there's no problem, as the same drugs will prove effective against smallpox as well.

You also have to wait for the vaccine to be made, distributed and administered.

Only 2/3 there actually, apparently they have already stockpiled smallpox vaccine, so you'd only need to wait for distribution and administration, which wouldn't be slow once the pox was identified.

It's even a possibility that the classic vaccines aren't as useful now as they were before due to these changes. Making vaccines theoretically easy, but in the real world it is not.

Very unlikely, remember smallpox has been extinct in the wild for 35 years. The only surviving viral sample have been in storage since, so the virus hasn't been replicating and therefore hasn't had the opportunity to evolve the sort of changes you're talking about here. The smallpox virus couldn't evolve a way out of the vaccine during the 20 year eradication campaign, so I doubt it will have managed it subsequently, while in storage.

Ultimately, a smallpox outbreak wouldn't be pleasant, and people would almost certainly die. But it wouldn't be the apocalypse and the virus would be brought to heel again, after all, we've already done it once.

 

[Yopaz]

Actually, antivirals MIGHT be effective, but they don't know for sure.

Yes, that's what I said (or at least was trying to say). If the trends observed in the murine model in the study I linked accurately extrapolate to humans (which obviously is the hope), then cidofovir would provide effective treatment for smallpox. But hopefully we'll never know for sure.

It's hardly a cure once the disease has been allowed to present itself it's too late for a vaccine.

How do you define a 'cure' then? While you're right that post exposure vaccination doesn't help patient zero, it would certainly be advantageous to any number of people exposed to that patient during disease incubation.

Also how quickly do you think doctors are to recognize a disease that is extinct considering that there are several less dangerous diseases that present similar symptoms?

Depends on the circumstances. If there's been a containment breach at the CDC, or if one of the NIH/FDA workers exposed to those vials was taken ill, almost immediately. In some implausible bio-terrorism event? Probably longer.

By similar diseases to you mean other poxviruses? Which can successfully be treated with antivirals? So if the predictions are accurate, there's no problem, as the same drugs will prove effective against smallpox as well.

You also have to wait for the vaccine to be made, distributed and administered.

Only 2/3 there actually, apparently they have already stockpiled smallpox vaccine, so you'd only need to wait for distribution and administration, which wouldn't be slow once the pox was identified.

It's even a possibility that the classic vaccines aren't as useful now as they were before due to these changes. Making vaccines theoretically easy, but in the real world it is not.

Very unlikely, remember smallpox has been extinct in the wild for 35 years. The only surviving viral sample have been in storage since, so the virus hasn't been replicating and therefore hasn't had the opportunity to evolve the sort of changes you're talking about here. The smallpox virus couldn't evolve a way out of the vaccine during the 20 year eradication campaign, so I doubt it will have managed it subsequently, while in storage.

Ultimately, a smallpox outbreak wouldn't be pleasant, and people would almost certainly die. But it wouldn't be the apocalypse and the virus would be brought to heel again, after all, we've already done it once.

I am sorry for taking this out on you, I am just really tired of arguing with the other guy and I overreacted.

To answer your first question, I wouldn't define a possible cure as a cure unless we have seen it work. Antibiotics work to kill several infections, thus they can be considered to be cures in said cases. Using antivirals on patients with smallpox is something we luckily haven't had to deal with so we can't say for certain if it is a cure or not, it's a possibility and it's probably our best shot if someone were to catch it.

Once the disease has presented itself a vaccine won't do muchg good so that's not a cure, it's there to prevent the disease.

In this case where the vials of smallpox weren't known to exist there wouldn't be a reason to alarm beforehand. If someone breaks into the CDC and steals a vial of a deadly virus there is. The scenario you present is different than the one from the article and the infected individuals would probably receive the wrong diagnosis because of how unlikely it is to catch smallpox these days.

Vaccines aren't unniversally effective and they need to be tested before they can be administered. this have to do with the protein complexes presented on the surface of the cells and these are by no means constant. The H1N1 vaccine made in Europe can't be shipped to USA and administered there because it is developed for a different population. Vaccines aren't equally effective on everyone either. THIS is why the classical vaccines might not be effective, I didn't mention once that I suspected it could have mutated, I suggested that humans change over the course of 35 years.

I am not going to argue against your conclusion, I simply disagree with Jack's conclusion that releasing smallpox would be mundane everyday medical work. Sorry if I overdramatized and made it sound like it would be the end of the world. It wouldn't be and you're perfectly correct there. All I am saying is that it would be bad and I think we agree there.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

How about you apologize to me for all the rudeness and attitude as well? I'm not being ignorant or an idiot. You're being insulting and copping a terrible attitude. It isn't right for discussion for you to be acting this way. Apologize to ME for your actions. I didn't instigate you or anything. You just decided to insult and misunderstand. If you're lightening up on Megalodon, you have to do so with me. Fair is fair.

 

[Yopaz]

Snip

How about you apologize to me for all the rudeness and attitude as well? I'm not being ignorant or an idiot. You're being insulting and copping a terrible attitude. It isn't right for discussion for you to be acting this way. Apologize to ME for your actions. I didn't instigate you or anything. You just decided to insult and misunderstand. If you're lightening up on Megalodon, you have to do so with me. Fair is fair.

I lightened up to him because he was offering facts and a mature discussion. You won't even answer my questions and you drop the topic once you're pressed on it. I respect him for keeping up a valid discussion and replying to my points. I have asked you several time to answer me if there is a cure for smallpox and you refuse to answer me.

See the difference? I respect him for keeping to the topic, discussing using facts and research rather than what you're doing. I have replied to every point you have made you have refused to confront those replies and you have refused to answer my questions. Now you are playing the victim. Address my points, answer my questions, learn from Megalodon, we ended it on a friendly note because he actually showed respect. You haven't shown a sliver a respect yet you demand it.

You are wrong, you refuse to admit you're wrong. I won't apologize for the fact that you're wrong and I won't apologize because you refuse to admit that you are.